USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

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missinglink
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby missinglink » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:07 pm

swheat wrote:
chitown825 wrote:
swheat wrote:Davis' 2010 rankings employed at graduation = 97%
Davis' 2009 rankings employed at graduation = 86%
Davis' 2007 rankings employed at graduation = 78%

So as the economy gets worse, DAVIS GETS BETTER


You do realize this number can be manipulated so so easily


That is the POINT. How can an "above average" school like Davis in the middle of nowhere legitimately raise its employment rate by 20% in a span of 3 years amidst the worst economic crisis in 80 years?

By hiring them to work in the library, that's how.

It's a smaller overall class, so it's easier to see variation in the employment figure from year to year. Of course the numbers could be fudged with non-legal employment, but because of the size of the graduating class, I wouldn't be surprised to see the employment data vary.

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby Sauer Grapes » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:32 pm

Well, not that there was any doubt in these being legit, but Hudson News near me also had a copy so I picked it up. $10 is a stinking lot of money for this magazine.

Anyway, I never doubted her, and she (obviously) was telling the truth.

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General Tso
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby General Tso » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:34 pm

missinglink wrote:
swheat wrote:
chitown825 wrote:
swheat wrote:Davis' 2010 rankings employed at graduation = 97%
Davis' 2009 rankings employed at graduation = 86%
Davis' 2007 rankings employed at graduation = 78%

So as the economy gets worse, DAVIS GETS BETTER


You do realize this number can be manipulated so so easily


That is the POINT. How can an "above average" school like Davis in the middle of nowhere legitimately raise its employment rate by 20% in a span of 3 years amidst the worst economic crisis in 80 years?

By hiring them to work in the library, that's how.

It's a smaller overall class, so it's easier to see variation in the employment figure from year to year. Of course the numbers could be fudged with non-legal employment, but because of the size of the graduating class, I wouldn't be surprised to see the employment data vary.


Davis = around 200 grads per year. An extra 20% to their employment = an additional 40 people with jobs at graduation. If we were talking a 5% or even a 10% jump I might agree with you. Keep in mind all of this is occurring during the worst economic downturn in 80 years, and the legal sector in California has been very badly damaged.

LauraCB
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby LauraCB » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:44 pm

YCrevolution wrote:
jl2032 wrote:Yes, I did... I'm just messing with the 2am crowd...

I think a few others on here bought the book as well...

You think I got the store in trouble for releasing it early? I got it for $9.95, which is the listed price, but then heard they started charging $15 for it. They must have known something was up...

If Irvine wasn't included in the disclaimer clause, that was kind of sloppy of USNWR.

No, it's not sloppy - Irvine is not provisionally accredited by the ABA, because it hasn't been in operation long enough to apply for provisional accreditation. From the ABA website:

Provisional Approval

A law school may not apply for provisional approval by the ABA until it has been in operation for one year. Schools considering applying for provisional approval are strongly encouraged to contact the Office of the Consultant as early as possible, and well before the year in which the school applies for provisional approval. The Consultant or other senior members of the Consultant Office staff meet with representatives of schools seeking provisional approval and provide them with extensive information about the Standards for Approval of Law Schools, the Rules of Procedure, and the accreditation process.

--LinkRemoved--

So Irvine's exclusion means absolutely nothing. It is (and will be) a great school, but right now it is on par with the People's College of Law in terms of ABA accreditation status, provisional or otherwise - which is to say, it has none.

Look at IU, same raw score as last year, but a 4 spot decrease. ND actually increased its score but lost a few spots.

If by ND you mean Notre Dame, you're mistaken - it went up one spot, from 23 to 22.
Last edited by LauraCB on Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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arhmcpo
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby arhmcpo » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:02 pm

swheat wrote:
swheat wrote:]
swheat wrote:Davis' 2010 rankings employed at graduation = 97%
Davis' 2009 rankings employed at graduation = 86%
Davis' 2007 rankings employed at graduation = 78%

So as the economy gets worse, DAVIS GETS BETTER

You do realize this number can be manipulated so so easily

That is the POINT. How can an "above average" school like Davis in the middle of nowhere legitimately raise its employment rate by 20% in a span of 3 years amidst the worst economic crisis in 80 years?

By hiring them to work in the library, that's how.

It's a smaller overall class, so it's easier to see variation in the employment figure from year to year. Of course the numbers could be fudged with non-legal employment, but because of the size of the graduating class, I wouldn't be surprised to see the employment data vary.


Davis = around 200 grads per year. An extra 20% to their employment = an additional 40 people with jobs at graduation. If we were talking a 5% or even a 10% jump I might agree with you. Keep in mind all of this is occurring during the worst economic downturn in 80 years, and the legal sector in California has been very badly damaged.
[/quote]

1) Love the anti-Davis Trolling,
2) Please make sure no Hastings students jump from the tower you guys live in, and
3) I'm with you in thinking a significant number (in terms of affecting statistics) is working in non-legal employment. Professional Cow-Tippers mayhaps... :lol:

honestabe84
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby honestabe84 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:22 pm

LauraCB wrote:
YCrevolution wrote:
jl2032 wrote:Yes, I did... I'm just messing with the 2am crowd...

I think a few others on here bought the book as well...

You think I got the store in trouble for releasing it early? I got it for $9.95, which is the listed price, but then heard they started charging $15 for it. They must have known something was up...

If Irvine wasn't included in the disclaimer clause, that was kind of sloppy of USNWR.

No, it's not sloppy - Irvine is not provisionally accredited by the ABA, because it hasn't been in operation long enough to apply for provisional accreditation. From the ABA website:

Provisional Approval

A law school may not apply for provisional approval by the ABA until it has been in operation for one year. Schools considering applying for provisional approval are strongly encouraged to contact the Office of the Consultant as early as possible, and well before the year in which the school applies for provisional approval. The Consultant or other senior members of the Consultant Office staff meet with representatives of schools seeking provisional approval and provide them with extensive information about the Standards for Approval of Law Schools, the Rules of Procedure, and the accreditation process.

--LinkRemoved--

So Irvine's exclusion means absolutely nothing. It is (and will be) a great school, but right now it is on par with the People's College of Law in terms of ABA accreditation status, provisional or otherwise - which is to say, it has none.

Look at IU, same raw score as last year, but a 4 spot decrease. ND actually increased its score but lost a few spots.

If by ND you mean Notre Dame, you're mistaken - it went up one spot, from 23 to 22.


I'm actually surprised at how high Irvine's numbers are considering the school is not even accredited.

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arhmcpo
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby arhmcpo » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:36 pm

1000th post in this thread bitchessssssss

[/quote]I'm actually surprised at how high Irvine's numbers are considering the school is not even accredited.[/quote]

Don't be. There's a big difference btw being unaccredited and being a new school beginning the accreditation process. A new school, that is a "UC" law school, is sure to be accredited, and a new school will always attract those you love the idea of being THE FIRST, or the pioneers of a new, presumably good, school.

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jmhendri
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby jmhendri » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:40 pm

arhmcpo wrote:1000th post in this thread bitchessssssss

I'm actually surprised at how high Irvine's numbers are considering the school is not even accredited.[/quote]

Don't be. There's a big difference btw being unaccredited and being a new school beginning the accreditation process. A new school, that is a "UC" law school, is sure to be accredited, and a new school will always attract those you love the idea of being THE FIRST, or the pioneers of a new, presumably good, school.[/quote]

Not to mention the prestige of having Duke's Dean Chemerinsky combined with being a UC school.

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Son of Cicero
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby Son of Cicero » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:54 pm

arhmcpo wrote:
swheat wrote:
swheat wrote:
swheat wrote:Davis' 2010 rankings employed at graduation = 97%
Davis' 2009 rankings employed at graduation = 86%
Davis' 2007 rankings employed at graduation = 78%

So as the economy gets worse, DAVIS GETS BETTER

You do realize this number can be manipulated so so easily

That is the POINT. How can an "above average" school like Davis in the middle of nowhere legitimately raise its employment rate by 20% in a span of 3 years amidst the worst economic crisis in 80 years?

By hiring them to work in the library, that's how.

It's a smaller overall class, so it's easier to see variation in the employment figure from year to year. Of course the numbers could be fudged with non-legal employment, but because of the size of the graduating class, I wouldn't be surprised to see the employment data vary.


Davis = around 200 grads per year. An extra 20% to their employment = an additional 40 people with jobs at graduation. If we were talking a 5% or even a 10% jump I might agree with you. Keep in mind all of this is occurring during the worst economic downturn in 80 years, and the legal sector in California has been very badly damaged.


1) Love the anti-Davis Trolling,
2) Please make sure no Hastings students jump from the tower you guys live in, and
3) I'm with you in thinking a significant number (in terms of affecting statistics) is working in non-legal employment. Professional Cow-Tippers mayhaps... :lol:

I think a much more meaningful statistic would be "% of students that reported being happy with their at-graduation employment status/position"). Although it's debatable whether Career Services' efforts to apparently goad students into securing summer work of whatever kind can be attributed to suspect motives rather than to a genuine desire to ensure that helpless students know how to use the school's resources, where to look, blah blah (it's hard to see how anyone couldn't know at this point in the year), it's hard not to sense an element of self-interest at work in light of the way that even the top schools have been actively promoting a no-legal-job-is-too-shitty attitude among students.

Unfortunately, the result of all of this is that we probably won't see any of the big name schools take the substantial employment hit that some anticipated would occur as a result of the huge drop in the number of students who landed the sorts of jobs most believed they were guaranteed when they enrolled. I don't imagine many students are daring or delusional enough to maintain the attitude that they can afford to hold out for a "dream job" that offers a $100k+ salary at graduation, especially after they have considered the terrifying possibility that, if they aren't willing to accept something less desirable, they may not land any secure or decent-paying job by the time the loan bills start coming due.

R.I.P., relevance of the "employed at graduation" statistic (1989-2009)

AsylumPB
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby AsylumPB » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:11 pm

Wow, Louisville took a hell of a hit....from 98 to halfway down the 3rd tier

td6624
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby td6624 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:16 pm

AsylumPB wrote:Wow, Louisville took a hell of a hit....from 98 to halfway down the 3rd tier


uh

tier 3 is alphabetical.

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby quickquestionthanks » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:18 pm

td6624 wrote:
AsylumPB wrote:Wow, Louisville took a hell of a hit....from 98 to halfway down the 3rd tier


uh

tier 3 is alphabetical.


I'm really hoping that was the joke.

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im_blue
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby im_blue » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:18 pm

td6624 wrote:
AsylumPB wrote:Wow, Louisville took a hell of a hit....from 98 to halfway down the 3rd tier


uh

tier 3 is alphabetical.

LOL :roll:

AsylumPB
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby AsylumPB » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:26 pm

td6624 wrote:
AsylumPB wrote:Wow, Louisville took a hell of a hit....from 98 to halfway down the 3rd tier


uh

tier 3 is alphabetical.


sorry my interwebz sarcasm doesn't come across so well :wink:

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whatchootalkinbout
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby whatchootalkinbout » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:28 pm

td6624 wrote:
AsylumPB wrote:Wow, Louisville took a hell of a hit....from 98 to halfway down the 3rd tier


uh

tier 3 is alphabetical.

Win.

cLams
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby cLams » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:08 pm

Leiter thinks the leak could be a hoax. Thoughts?

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... eaked.html

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby Sauer Grapes » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:11 pm

cLams wrote:Leiter thinks the leak could be a hoax. Thoughts?

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... eaked.html

He ends by saying the hoax was pulled on US News. In other words, the rankings are real, but use hoax numbers provided by the law schools. This I believe, as I can 100% guarantee you the rankings are real.

cLams
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby cLams » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:21 pm

Sauer Grapes wrote:
cLams wrote:Leiter thinks the leak could be a hoax. Thoughts?

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... eaked.html

He ends by saying the hoax was pulled on US News. In other words, the rankings are real, but use hoax numbers provided by the law schools. This I believe, as I can 100% guarantee you the rankings are real.


Yeah I noticed his remark at the end, but it still seems like he's skeptical of the validity of the report as well. He seems to add as a closing, his comment about a reporting hoax. Still, I'm also pretty damn positive the rankings are real.

honestabe84
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby honestabe84 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:22 pm

cLams wrote:
Sauer Grapes wrote:
cLams wrote:Leiter thinks the leak could be a hoax. Thoughts?

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... eaked.html

He ends by saying the hoax was pulled on US News. In other words, the rankings are real, but use hoax numbers provided by the law schools. This I believe, as I can 100% guarantee you the rankings are real.


Yeah I noticed his remark at the end, but it still seems like he's skeptical of the validity of the report as well. He seems to add as a closing, his comment about a reporting hoax. Still, I'm also pretty damn positive the rankings are real.


If they are fake, then this is the best flame in the history of TLS.

honestabe84
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby honestabe84 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:28 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
honestabe84 wrote:If they are fake, then this is the best flame in the history of TLS.

If they are fake, then this is an even better flame than that, since it spread so far beyond just TLS.

I think they're real, though.


Ken and the mods obviously think so also. The rankings are up on the TLS ranking page.

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YCrevolution
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby YCrevolution » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:28 pm

..

CanadianWolf
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:33 pm

Forget Leitner. Forget us. Lets get a real expert. Does anybody know a plastic surgeon? They're great at telling which are real & which are fake.

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jl2032
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby jl2032 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:34 pm

honestabe84 wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:
honestabe84 wrote:If they are fake, then this is the best flame in the history of TLS.

If they are fake, then this is an even better flame than that, since it spread so far beyond just TLS.

I think they're real, though.


Ken and the mods obviously think so also. The rankings are up on the TLS ranking page.


I'm sure some of the mods went out and bought (or at least saw) the magazine themselves.

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im_blue
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby im_blue » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:37 pm

honestabe84 wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:
honestabe84 wrote:If they are fake, then this is the best flame in the history of TLS.

If they are fake, then this is an even better flame than that, since it spread so far beyond just TLS.

I think they're real, though.


Ken and the mods obviously think so also. The rankings are up on the TLS ranking page.

Won't this get TLS in trouble for preempting US News's April 15 release? I mean, they have a countdown timer, so it obviously means a great deal to them.

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SAE
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Re: USNWR Rankings Released...Seriously

Postby SAE » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:38 pm

jl2032 wrote:
honestabe84 wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:
honestabe84 wrote:If they are fake, then this is the best flame in the history of TLS.

If they are fake, then this is an even better flame than that, since it spread so far beyond just TLS.

I think they're real, though.


Ken and the mods obviously think so also. The rankings are up on the TLS ranking page.


I'm sure some of the mods went out and bought (or at least saw) the magazine themselves.

Irvine is still (estimated) a 30.




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