Top Law Schools

soullesswonder wrote:http://www.law.duke.edu/news/story?id=4826&u=11

Duke's not backing down, and FWIW, the process described in this article is almost exactly what I was told at ASW. Duke mobilized just about everyone to make sure their grads had jobs.

quickquestionthanks wrote:

soullesswonder wrote:http://www.law.duke.edu/news/story?id=4826&u=11

Duke's not backing down, and FWIW, the process described in this article is almost exactly what I was told at ASW. Duke mobilized just about everyone to make sure their grads had jobs.

That's awesome. Go USNWR rankings! Apparently they're not entirely deleterious.

100% employment: Meeting a lofty goal

Of course, every year there is a small number of students for whom the desired jobs don’t work out, or who are planning to launch their careers in government, public interest agencies, small firms, or businesses that do not typically hire applicants until after they have passed the bar exam (summer bar exam results are not available until the late summer or fall following graduation). So how does Duke help them make the transition to practice?

“Two years ago we saw that more of our students wanted to commit to public service careers or pursue more unique paths,” Elvin said. “This is of course something we want to encourage and support and expand. But we knew that they needed to work in the interim to continue to build skills, develop professional relationships, enhance references, and have a substantive platform from which to pursue their full-time goals. As the saying goes, ‘You need a job to get a job.’ We also wanted to provide more help to those students who were still trying to determine their path or who hadn’t found the full-time job they hoped for.”

To that end, the Career Center launched the Bridge to Practice program, which offers an eight- to 12-week fellowship in a variety of legal positions. Graduates are paid a stipend, usually supported by alumni contributions, gain on-the-ground experience, and strengthen their lawyering skills. They also work throughout their fellowship with career counselors and mentors to continue their searches.

Students may apply for fellowships in late spring; securing a position before graduation allows them to focus on studying for the bar during the summer with a little less worry, Elvin added.

“When we approached employers with the idea, they were thrilled,” Elvin said. “Often these are some of our best students, so the chance to have those extra hands for eight weeks is very attractive.”

Since 2008, Bridge to Practice fellows have worked in positions around the country, with nonprofit and advocacy organizations, district attorneys offices, law firms, and courts. Fellowships provide a springboard to other positions and, in some cases, convert into permanent positions with the host employer.

"Through the Bridge to Practice, I was able to continue working on cases and prepare for one of my DA interviews, where I was asked to ‘run the courtroom,'" said Kyle Pousson '08, whose fellowship led to a permanent position with the Durham County District Attorney's Office. "Because the office knew me well and I was working there before and after my bar studies, I was in a great position to become an ADA once I had passed the bar."

yeff wrote:Isn't offering their students an 8-12 week fellowship gaming the system a bit?

Totally a good thing to do, but...not the same as real full-time employment, since they are continuing their job searches, yeah?

100% employment: Meeting a lofty goal

Of course, every year there is a small number of students for whom the desired jobs don’t work out, or who are planning to launch their careers in government, public interest agencies, small firms, or businesses that do not typically hire applicants until after they have passed the bar exam (summer bar exam results are not available until the late summer or fall following graduation). So how does Duke help them make the transition to practice?

“Two years ago we saw that more of our students wanted to commit to public service careers or pursue more unique paths,” Elvin said. “This is of course something we want to encourage and support and expand. But we knew that they needed to work in the interim to continue to build skills, develop professional relationships, enhance references, and have a substantive platform from which to pursue their full-time goals. As the saying goes, ‘You need a job to get a job.’ We also wanted to provide more help to those students who were still trying to determine their path or who hadn’t found the full-time job they hoped for.”

To that end, the Career Center launched the Bridge to Practice program, which offers an eight- to 12-week fellowship in a variety of legal positions. Graduates are paid a stipend, usually supported by alumni contributions, gain on-the-ground experience, and strengthen their lawyering skills. They also work throughout their fellowship with career counselors and mentors to continue their searches.

Students may apply for fellowships in late spring; securing a position before graduation allows them to focus on studying for the bar during the summer with a little less worry, Elvin added.

“When we approached employers with the idea, they were thrilled,” Elvin said. “Often these are some of our best students, so the chance to have those extra hands for eight weeks is very attractive.”

Since 2008, Bridge to Practice fellows have worked in positions around the country, with nonprofit and advocacy organizations, district attorneys offices, law firms, and courts. Fellowships provide a springboard to other positions and, in some cases, convert into permanent positions with the host employer.

"Through the Bridge to Practice, I was able to continue working on cases and prepare for one of my DA interviews, where I was asked to ‘run the courtroom,'" said Kyle Pousson '08, whose fellowship led to a permanent position with the Durham County District Attorney's Office. "Because the office knew me well and I was working there before and after my bar studies, I was in a great position to become an ADA once I had passed the bar."

pelmen74 wrote:

yeff wrote:Isn't offering their students an 8-12 week fellowship gaming the system a bit?

Totally a good thing to do, but...not the same as real full-time employment, since they are continuing their job searches, yeah?

100% employment: Meeting a lofty goal

Of course, every year there is a small number of students for whom the desired jobs don’t work out, or who are planning to launch their careers in government, public interest agencies, small firms, or businesses that do not typically hire applicants until after they have passed the bar exam (summer bar exam results are not available until the late summer or fall following graduation). So how does Duke help them make the transition to practice?

“Two years ago we saw that more of our students wanted to commit to public service careers or pursue more unique paths,” Elvin said. “This is of course something we want to encourage and support and expand. But we knew that they needed to work in the interim to continue to build skills, develop professional relationships, enhance references, and have a substantive platform from which to pursue their full-time goals. As the saying goes, ‘You need a job to get a job.’ We also wanted to provide more help to those students who were still trying to determine their path or who hadn’t found the full-time job they hoped for.”

To that end, the Career Center launched the Bridge to Practice program, which offers an eight- to 12-week fellowship in a variety of legal positions. Graduates are paid a stipend, usually supported by alumni contributions, gain on-the-ground experience, and strengthen their lawyering skills. They also work throughout their fellowship with career counselors and mentors to continue their searches.

Students may apply for fellowships in late spring; securing a position before graduation allows them to focus on studying for the bar during the summer with a little less worry, Elvin added.

“When we approached employers with the idea, they were thrilled,” Elvin said. “Often these are some of our best students, so the chance to have those extra hands for eight weeks is very attractive.”

Since 2008, Bridge to Practice fellows have worked in positions around the country, with nonprofit and advocacy organizations, district attorneys offices, law firms, and courts. Fellowships provide a springboard to other positions and, in some cases, convert into permanent positions with the host employer.

"Through the Bridge to Practice, I was able to continue working on cases and prepare for one of my DA interviews, where I was asked to ‘run the courtroom,'" said Kyle Pousson '08, whose fellowship led to a permanent position with the Durham County District Attorney's Office. "Because the office knew me well and I was working there before and after my bar studies, I was in a great position to become an ADA once I had passed the bar."

Yes, I'm sure that that helps the rankings, but I highly doubt that they created the fellowship program specifically for the USNWR....

pelmen74 wrote:

yeff wrote:Isn't offering their students an 8-12 week fellowship gaming the system a bit?

Totally a good thing to do, but...not the same as real full-time employment, since they are continuing their job searches, yeah?

100% employment: Meeting a lofty goal

Of course, every year there is a small number of students for whom the desired jobs don’t work out, or who are planning to launch their careers in government, public interest agencies, small firms, or businesses that do not typically hire applicants until after they have passed the bar exam (summer bar exam results are not available until the late summer or fall following graduation). So how does Duke help them make the transition to practice?

“Two years ago we saw that more of our students wanted to commit to public service careers or pursue more unique paths,” Elvin said. “This is of course something we want to encourage and support and expand. But we knew that they needed to work in the interim to continue to build skills, develop professional relationships, enhance references, and have a substantive platform from which to pursue their full-time goals. As the saying goes, ‘You need a job to get a job.’ We also wanted to provide more help to those students who were still trying to determine their path or who hadn’t found the full-time job they hoped for.”

To that end, the Career Center launched the Bridge to Practice program, which offers an eight- to 12-week fellowship in a variety of legal positions. Graduates are paid a stipend, usually supported by alumni contributions, gain on-the-ground experience, and strengthen their lawyering skills. They also work throughout their fellowship with career counselors and mentors to continue their searches.

Students may apply for fellowships in late spring; securing a position before graduation allows them to focus on studying for the bar during the summer with a little less worry, Elvin added.

“When we approached employers with the idea, they were thrilled,” Elvin said. “Often these are some of our best students, so the chance to have those extra hands for eight weeks is very attractive.”

Since 2008, Bridge to Practice fellows have worked in positions around the country, with nonprofit and advocacy organizations, district attorneys offices, law firms, and courts. Fellowships provide a springboard to other positions and, in some cases, convert into permanent positions with the host employer.

"Through the Bridge to Practice, I was able to continue working on cases and prepare for one of my DA interviews, where I was asked to ‘run the courtroom,'" said Kyle Pousson '08, whose fellowship led to a permanent position with the Durham County District Attorney's Office. "Because the office knew me well and I was working there before and after my bar studies, I was in a great position to become an ADA once I had passed the bar."

Yes, I'm sure that that helps the rankings, but I highly doubt that they created the fellowship program specifically for the USNWR....

danquayle wrote:Of course they did. Indiana did the exact same thing.

los blancos wrote:

danquayle wrote:Of course they did. Indiana did the exact same thing.

Except it hasn't really helped Duke in the rankings.

swheat wrote:

los blancos wrote:

danquayle wrote:Of course they did. Indiana did the exact same thing.

Except it hasn't really helped Duke in the rankings.

Overstating employment at graduation by 10% would equal 0.4 additional raw points

swheat wrote:

los blancos wrote:

danquayle wrote:Of course they did. Indiana did the exact same thing.

Except it hasn't really helped Duke in the rankings.

Overstating employment at graduation by 10% would equal 0.4 additional raw points

Tangerine Gleam wrote:Check out Leiter's newest blog post about the rankings -- especially the self-reported employment info.

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... r-not.html

los blancos wrote:

swheat wrote:

los blancos wrote:

danquayle wrote:Of course they did. Indiana did the exact same thing.

Except it hasn't really helped Duke in the rankings.

Overstating employment at graduation by 10% would equal 0.4 additional raw points

And no school in the T20 except for WashU has below a 90% employment rate at graduation. Duke's peers are all at 96% or above.

If Dook is trying to game the rankings, it should adopt UVa's admissions tactics, not create a program so they can overstate employment by 1 or 2%.

(this is assuming you weren't sarcastically making the same point I was)

T14_Scholly wrote:
You think the bridge to practice program is legit?

los blancos wrote:

T14_Scholly wrote:
You think the bridge to practice program is legit?

What's the definition of 'legit'? Do I think that maybe using it to report 100% employment is spurious? Yeah, probably. Is that their intention? I doubt it. It's simply not worth paying people to get like 3% more employment that's not going to affect your rank regardless.

But who gives a flying fuck?

danquayle wrote:

los blancos wrote:

T14_Scholly wrote:
You think the bridge to practice program is legit?

What's the definition of 'legit'? Do I think that maybe using it to report 100% employment is spurious? Yeah, probably. Is that their intention? I doubt it. It's simply not worth paying people to get like 3% more employment that's not going to affect your rank regardless.

But who gives a flying fuck?

But don't you think they're going to market the hell out of that 100% like its legit?

los blancos wrote: People who get into T14s are smarter than "wtf z0mg lulz Dook haz 100% and Michigan has 96% i put deposit down at dook hahaha wtf lulz michigan sux".

los blancos wrote:

danquayle wrote:

los blancos wrote:

T14_Scholly wrote:
You think the bridge to practice program is legit?

What's the definition of 'legit'? Do I think that maybe using it to report 100% employment is spurious? Yeah, probably. Is that their intention? I doubt it. It's simply not worth paying people to get like 3% more employment that's not going to affect your rank regardless.

But who gives a flying fuck?

But don't you think they're going to market the hell out of that 100% like its legit?

I'm probably going to Duke next year and I didn't even know about it until it was brought up in this thread, so if they've been marketing it, they've been doing a piss-poor job at it. Apparently they've had this 100% employment thing for like 5 out of the last 6 years or something. I don't think it really matters too much when their peers are at 96%+. No one assumes they're going to be the 4% unemployed. All it takes is just to look at YLS's number to realize that this statistic is useless a lot of the time. People who get into T14s are smarter than "wtf z0mg lulz Dook haz 100% and Michigan has 96% i put deposit down at dook hahaha wtf lulz michigan sux".

Also, that Bridge to Practice program probably closes a good portion of the gap, but I wouldn't be surprised if Duke would still be at a slightly higher number than its peers without it, due primarily to its class size (though I've also heard that their career services dept is very good at what they do). Does it really matter? No.

danquayle wrote:
Well, its only on the front page of their website...

And its only been what... a weak since the rankings came out.

I'm not saying I fault them for the program. But its silly to think Duke is "beyond" a little gaming.

PDaddy wrote:

danquayle wrote:
Well, its only on the front page of their website...

And its only been what... a weak since the rankings came out.

I'm not saying I fault them for the program. But its silly to think Duke is "beyond" a little gaming.

LOL @ "weak". These rankings are weak. They are meaningless.

swheat wrote:

Tangerine Gleam wrote:Check out Leiter's newest blog post about the rankings -- especially the self-reported employment info.

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... r-not.html

It's nice to know that I am not the only one who thinks Davis shouldn't be outplacing Boalt. (and Yale too, btw)