So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

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Gatriel
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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby Gatriel » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:41 am

What did you decide?

tx1987
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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby tx1987 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:47 am

Gatriel wrote:Ok, so I threw this together real quick:

If you borrow $30,000 a semester for Pepperdine (realistic, living expenses, etc.) and you have an 8% interest rate on your loans (which is on the high side of things. Being conservative)

Then the present value of your Pepperdine Legal Education is $157,264.11. Future Value is $198,989.26 at the time of graduation.

Lets say you want to pay it off in a decade, and make monthly payments at a reduced interest rate of say . . . . 3% your looking at $1,921.45 a month for 10 years.

This assumes a few things:

A) Its all loans, no scholarships, grants, etc.
B) You have no outstanding UG debt to pay back

Houston is as follows @ $25,000 per year ($12,500 per semester)
I% = 8% while in law schools

Present Value of Houston is $65,526.71
Future Value of Houston (What you would owe at the time of graduation): $82,912.20

Pay it all off in a decade at 3%: $800.61 per month for ten years.

Again, I assume you get not loans, scholarships, or grants, and you have no UG debt.

--Garrett

EDIT: I know someone else is looking at Washington and Lee, the Pepperdine numbers above are equivalent to the WL cost and repayment.



At Pepperdine, I'd be borrowing $50,000 a year if I keep my scholarship and $50,000 for the first year and $65,000 for the second and third years if I don't. I have $33,000 in UG debt. :(

Thanks for all your work! I could not figure out how to work that calculator thing.

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Gatriel
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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby Gatriel » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:02 pm

tx1987 wrote:At Pepperdine, I'd be borrowing $50,000 a year if I keep my scholarship and $50,000 for the first year and $65,000 for the second and third years if I don't. I have $33,000 in UG debt. :(

Thanks for all your work! I could not figure out how to work that calculator thing.


Ok, so lemme break this down into 3 parts:

UG Debt:
I assume your going to do a loan consolidation? Should get you down to ~3%. I'm going to use 3% as a basis for my calculation.

So if you make no interest payments on the UG debt, upon graduation of law school you'll owe $36,059.99 on it.

Pepperdine with scholarship:

Assuming 8% student loan rate @ $50,000 a year.
Present Value: $131,053.42
Future Value at Graduation: $165,824.39 + $36,059.99 = $201,884.38

Pepperdine lost scholarship:

Assuming 8% student loan rate @ $50,000 first year, and $65,000 for the next two years.
Present Value of the First Year: $47,152.37
Future Value of the First Year: $51,000.00

Present Value of the second and third years at the beginning of your 2L year: $117,971.59
Future Value of the second and third years at the beginning of your 2L year: $138,010.08

Amount owed at time of graduation if you lost your scholarship:

UG Debt + First Year Loan + Second and Third Year Loans = Amount Owed at Graduation
$36,059.99 + $51,000 + $138,010.08 = $236,070

I think I'll make an excel worksheet. TVM stuff isn't fun if you've never played with it before.

Hope that helps!

--Garrett

EDIT: OOPS I counted interest on UG debt twice! Fixed now!
Last edited by Gatriel on Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:12 pm

Please do not go to Pepperdine. I seriously feel sorry for people that go to schools Like USD, Pepperdine, SC thinking that because they are solid T2s they will be fine. In reality the market in california is horrendous and over-saturated. You are competing against Boalt, Hastings, Davis, Stanford, UCLA, and USC (also Loyola, but that one is similarly ranked). If you think it is reasonable to take out that much debt for Pepperdine in THAT market with THAT competition, you shouldn't be going to law school to begin with. Houston dominates that market, has to compete with a couple of schools tops, and has more jobs available. Please go to Houston, do yourself a big favor.

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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby CMDantes » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:56 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Please do not go to Pepperdine. I seriously feel sorry for people that go to schools Like USD, Pepperdine, SC thinking that because they are solid T2s they will be fine. In reality the market in california is horrendous and over-saturated. You are competing against Boalt, Hastings, Davis, Stanford, UCLA, and USC (also Loyola, but that one is similarly ranked). If you think it is reasonable to take out that much debt for Pepperdine in THAT market with THAT competition, you shouldn't be going to law school to begin with. Houston dominates that market, has to compete with a couple of schools tops, and has more jobs available. Please go to Houston, do yourself a big favor.


+1

tx1987
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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby tx1987 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:10 pm

CMDantes wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Please do not go to Pepperdine. I seriously feel sorry for people that go to schools Like USD, Pepperdine, SC thinking that because they are solid T2s they will be fine. In reality the market in california is horrendous and over-saturated. You are competing against Boalt, Hastings, Davis, Stanford, UCLA, and USC (also Loyola, but that one is similarly ranked). If you think it is reasonable to take out that much debt for Pepperdine in THAT market with THAT competition, you shouldn't be going to law school to begin with. Houston dominates that market, has to compete with a couple of schools tops, and has more jobs available. Please go to Houston, do yourself a big favor.


+1



But, the thing is, I don't want to stay/work in Houston. That I know for sure (and it's about the only thing I know right now).

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beesknees
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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby beesknees » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:21 pm

Seriously, this is LAW SCHOOL. Not picking your next spring break destination. Unless you are hyper sensitive and would be at a shrink's office every week because of your dissatisfaction with your immediate surroundings in Houston, don't pick a school based on its preferable location. Especially when that school will cost you potentially $100k more in debt.

If you ABSOLUTELY want to work in Cali and could not be happy in Texas, then I could see a case for Pepperdine. But if its just because its Malibu, its unreasonable.

The answer to this thread is U of H.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:23 pm

RadMobile wrote:
UH is a great school and has a big home market which they dominate. A UT grad may be picked over a UH grad in Houston but that's arguable.



If we're talking about biglaw it's not even remotely arguable. To quote a former UH law student "we pretty much take UT's scraps." You also have some t10 folks competing for jobs as well.

That said, UH is a somewhat underrated school for it's rank. I can certainly empathize with OP's desire to branch out and I don't want to oversell UH's prospects since ITE you are going to have to perform well at UH to have any decent opportunities, but I think it would be very difficult to justify spending that much extra for Pepperdine.

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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:36 pm

tx1987 wrote:
But, the thing is, I don't want to stay/work in Houston. That I know for sure (and it's about the only thing I know right now).


Also, are these your only two options and have you maxed out on the LSAT? I'm not going to recite the canned "Get a 170, reapply next cycle, go to a t14, profit" advice that alot of people like to give on here since not everyone is capable of getting a 170+. But if you were accepted to UH, I'm guessing your LSAT score couldn't be too far from getting you in somewhere like UGA or Florida which has relatively cheap instate tuition, low COL and the ability to gain residency after one year. These could be semi-reasonable options if you HAVE to get out of Houston.

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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby tx1987 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:38 pm

beesknees wrote:Seriously, this is LAW SCHOOL. Not picking your next spring break destination. Unless you are hyper sensitive and would be at a shrink's office every week because of your dissatisfaction with your immediate surroundings in Houston, don't pick a school based on its preferable location. Especially when that school will cost you potentially $100k more in debt.

If you ABSOLUTELY want to work in Cali and could not be happy in Texas, then I could see a case for Pepperdine. But if its just because its Malibu, its unreasonable.

The answer to this thread is U of H.


It really amazes how rude people are when everything is anonymous. My whole point is that I want to leave Texas and going to U of H would be pretty much the OPPOSITE of fulfilling that goal because my degree will not carry much weight outside of here. I understand that, logically, U of H is the better choice. I just can't bring myself to be miserable for the next 3 (and most likely many more) years of my life living in a city that I have grown to really, really dislike.

But thank you for your opinion.
Last edited by tx1987 on Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby tx1987 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:45 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
tx1987 wrote:
But, the thing is, I don't want to stay/work in Houston. That I know for sure (and it's about the only thing I know right now).


Also, are these your only two options and have you maxed out on the LSAT? I'm not going to recite the canned "Get a 170, reapply next cycle, go to a t14, profit" advice that alot of people like to give on here since not everyone is capable of getting a 170+. But if you were accepted to UH, I'm guessing your LSAT score couldn't be too far from getting you in somewhere like UGA or Florida which has relatively cheap instate tuition, low COL and the ability to gain residency after one year. These could be semi-reasonable options if you HAVE to get out of Houston.


I got into SMU PT (don't really know why I didn't get in FT), U of H, Pepperdine, Baylor, and U. of S. Carolina. I've gotten WL offers at UT, UGA, Emory, and American. Oh, I also found out today that I got into George Mason.

I think I could do better on the LSAT, but I'm not going to retake it. I've already taken a year off and I'm anxious to get the ball rolling on law school. I was considering going to Pepperdine for a year and then trying to transfer into UT (I used to work for the former UT chancellor/law school dean and he said he'd help me). I know I've gotten into a couple of "better" schools than Pepperdine, but I've just heard such great things about that school, the QOL, the profs, etc. ALL of the former students I've talked to had nothing but wonderful things to say and they seemed to genuinely enjoy law school.

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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby beesknees » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:06 pm

tx1987 wrote:
It really amazes how rude people are when everything is anonymous. My whole point is that I want to leave Texas and going to U of H would be pretty much the OPPOSITE of fulfilling that goal because my degree will not carry much weight outside of here. I understand that, logically, U of H is the better choice. I just can't bring myself to be miserable for the next 3 (and most likely many more) years of my life living in a city that I have grown to really, really dislike.

But thank you for your opinion.


Ok, sorry for my bluntness, but your original post seemed a tad ridiculous because you're essentially asking if you should choose a school because its in Malibu or a school in spite of not being in Malibu. I'm not on here to win the biggest d-bag award, so let me rephrase it:

This is an important decision you are making. It will determine not only your career prospects, but also whether or not you will have soul-crushing debt afterward. It is advisable to factor mainly your career prospects and debt into this decision. If you will be utterly unhappy in Houston, then a case can be made for Pepperdine, but you should know that the $135 or $165k debt will be INCREDIBLY difficult to pay off if you don't land biglaw and landing biglaw from either school is not likely (read: on pure median figures, you will not likely land biglaw). So while you may be unhappy being in Texas, you could be unhappy and in debt for many years in Malibu. Something to think about.

Good luck with your decision.

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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:28 pm

tx1987 wrote:
I got into SMU PT (don't really know why I didn't get in FT), U of H, Pepperdine, Baylor, and U. of S. Carolina. I've gotten WL offers at UT, UGA, Emory, and American. Oh, I also found out today that I got into George Mason.

I think I could do better on the LSAT, but I'm not going to retake it. I've already taken a year off and I'm anxious to get the ball rolling on law school. I was considering going to Pepperdine for a year and then trying to transfer into UT (I used to work for the former UT chancellor/law school dean and he said he'd help me). I know I've gotten into a couple of "better" schools than Pepperdine, but I've just heard such great things about that school, the QOL, the profs, etc. ALL of the former students I've talked to had nothing but wonderful things to say and they seemed to genuinely enjoy law school.


Personally, my thought process would be quite a bit different. Most law students will tell you that counting on a transfer is unwise. I understand that you have a connection, but how much of a sure thing is it? And let's say hypothetically that somehow a transfer is guaranteed, it would make alot more sense to suck it up and go to UH for one year and save the 20k compounding with interest since you would be graduating from UT in both scenarios. Another thing you may want to weigh is the ability UH would give you to take a mulligan on law school. If you found out after the first semester that you stink at taking law school exams, dropping out 13k down would be alot easier than the 30-35k it would probably cost you to make the same decision if you went to Pepperdine.

BK is right that the QOL scales can tip quite a bit if you have a mountain of debt you can't pay off. If you go to Pepperdine, odds seem to be decent that you will wind up having to use IBR and paying 15% of your paycheck to the government for the next 25 years (10 if you can land some sort of govt gig) in a very high COL state. Is that really preferable to living in Houston, or to waiting a year and improving your LSAT score for a T17 school or a substantially lower cost/higher expected return option like UGA? In any case, good luck.

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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby fortissimo » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:01 pm

beesknees wrote:Seriously, this is LAW SCHOOL. Not picking your next spring break destination. Unless you are hyper sensitive and would be at a shrink's office every week because of your dissatisfaction with your immediate surroundings in Houston, don't pick a school based on its preferable location. Especially when that school will cost you potentially $100k more in debt.

If you ABSOLUTELY want to work in Cali and could not be happy in Texas, then I could see a case for Pepperdine. But if its just because its Malibu, its unreasonable.

The answer to this thread is U of H.


hahaha, agreed.

Also there's no way the OP is landing biglaw from Pepperdine unless the OP is something like top 5%, at least.

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arhmcpo
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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby arhmcpo » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:51 pm

If you are confident that you want to live and work in California, specifically southern California, than I would recommend Pepperdine. If you think anywhereelse I would say Houston. Houston has supposedly excellent prospects in Houston, but since you don't want to work/live there, their greatest strength is no good for you. So really the most important factor is location and money, Houston is much cheaper; and the difference btw having gone to Houston v. Pepperdine will probably be mostly meaningless unless you settle in LA or Houston. I would highly suggest visiting first to make sure you really like the school and try to find affordable housing if your seriously considering Pepperdine or any other school on your list, since you want to make sure you're gonna be happy there for 1-3 years. For example, I live in a really nice place around Santa Monica and my COL is probably $25k for my 1L year. I literally live in a vacation destination which is awesome however you can find significantly cheaper options besides where I have opted to live.

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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby JCUGuy0428 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:19 pm

tx1987 wrote:
beesknees wrote:Seriously, this is LAW SCHOOL. Not picking your next spring break destination. Unless you are hyper sensitive and would be at a shrink's office every week because of your dissatisfaction with your immediate surroundings in Houston, don't pick a school based on its preferable location. Especially when that school will cost you potentially $100k more in debt.

If you ABSOLUTELY want to work in Cali and could not be happy in Texas, then I could see a case for Pepperdine. But if its just because its Malibu, its unreasonable.

The answer to this thread is U of H.


It really amazes how rude people are when everything is anonymous. My whole point is that I want to leave Texas and going to U of H would be pretty much the OPPOSITE of fulfilling that goal because my degree will not carry much weight outside of here. I understand that, logically, U of H is the better choice. I just can't bring myself to be miserable for the next 3 (and most likely many more) years of my life living in a city that I have grown to really, really dislike.

But thank you for your opinion.



Sounds like you already have made up your mind.

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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby fortissimo » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:06 am

arhmcpo wrote:If you are confident that you want to live and work in California, specifically southern California, than I would recommend Pepperdine.


You mean if you are confident that you want to collect unemployment in California with mountains of debt, then go to Pepperdine.

I just can't bring myself to be miserable for the next 3 (and most likely many more) years of my life living in a city that I have grown to really, really dislike.


Get a girlfriend.

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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby tx1987 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:51 am

fortissimo wrote:
I just can't bring myself to be miserable for the next 3 (and most likely many more) years of my life living in a city that I have grown to really, really dislike.


Get a girlfriend.


I would if I was a lesbian.

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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby Gatriel » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:54 am

tx1987 wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
I just can't bring myself to be miserable for the next 3 (and most likely many more) years of my life living in a city that I have grown to really, really dislike.


Get a girlfriend.


I would if I was a lesbian.


:shock:

So what did you end up doing?

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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby HazelEyes » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:00 am

tx1987 wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
tx1987 wrote:
But, the thing is, I don't want to stay/work in Houston. That I know for sure (and it's about the only thing I know right now).


Also, are these your only two options and have you maxed out on the LSAT? I'm not going to recite the canned "Get a 170, reapply next cycle, go to a t14, profit" advice that alot of people like to give on here since not everyone is capable of getting a 170+. But if you were accepted to UH, I'm guessing your LSAT score couldn't be too far from getting you in somewhere like UGA or Florida which has relatively cheap instate tuition, low COL and the ability to gain residency after one year. These could be semi-reasonable options if you HAVE to get out of Houston.


I got into SMU PT (don't really know why I didn't get in FT), U of H, Pepperdine, Baylor, and U. of S. Carolina. I've gotten WL offers at UT, UGA, Emory, and American. Oh, I also found out today that I got into George Mason.

I think I could do better on the LSAT, but I'm not going to retake it. I've already taken a year off and I'm anxious to get the ball rolling on law school. I was considering going to Pepperdine for a year and then trying to transfer into UT (I used to work for the former UT chancellor/law school dean and he said he'd help me). I know I've gotten into a couple of "better" schools than Pepperdine, but I've just heard such great things about that school, the QOL, the profs, etc. ALL of the former students I've talked to had nothing but wonderful things to say and they seemed to genuinely enjoy law school.


Why not go to George Mason?

fortissimo
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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby fortissimo » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:25 pm

tx1987 wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
I just can't bring myself to be miserable for the next 3 (and most likely many more) years of my life living in a city that I have grown to really, really dislike.


Get a girlfriend.


I would if I was a lesbian.


I should have known. You complain like a woman. FFT, Pepperdine is considered a big party/religious (weird combo) school in CA, a party school for rich kids. Definitely not worth that amount of money. Also Malibu is extremely overrated. I really hate LA though. (I'd probably hate Houston too), but LA isn't nice for a lot of people.

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Gatriel
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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby Gatriel » Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:23 pm

fortissimo wrote:[strike]I should have known. You complain like a woman. FFT, Pepperdine is considered a big party/religious (weird combo) school in CA, a party school for rich kids. Definitely not worth that amount of money. Also Malibu is extremely overrated. I really hate LA though.[/strike] (I[strike]'d probably[/strike] hate Houston too),[strike]but LA isn't nice for a lot of people.
[/strike]

:D

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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:53 am

HazelEyes wrote:
tx1987 wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
tx1987 wrote:
But, the thing is, I don't want to stay/work in Houston. That I know for sure (and it's about the only thing I know right now).


Also, are these your only two options and have you maxed out on the LSAT? I'm not going to recite the canned "Get a 170, reapply next cycle, go to a t14, profit" advice that alot of people like to give on here since not everyone is capable of getting a 170+. But if you were accepted to UH, I'm guessing your LSAT score couldn't be too far from getting you in somewhere like UGA or Florida which has relatively cheap instate tuition, low COL and the ability to gain residency after one year. These could be semi-reasonable options if you HAVE to get out of Houston.


I got into SMU PT (don't really know why I didn't get in FT), U of H, Pepperdine, Baylor, and U. of S. Carolina. I've gotten WL offers at UT, UGA, Emory, and American. Oh, I also found out today that I got into George Mason.

I think I could do better on the LSAT, but I'm not going to retake it. I've already taken a year off and I'm anxious to get the ball rolling on law school. I was considering going to Pepperdine for a year and then trying to transfer into UT (I used to work for the former UT chancellor/law school dean and he said he'd help me). I know I've gotten into a couple of "better" schools than Pepperdine, but I've just heard such great things about that school, the QOL, the profs, etc. ALL of the former students I've talked to had nothing but wonderful things to say and they seemed to genuinely enjoy law school.


Why not go to George Mason?


Insane CoL and the impossibility of getting In-State make it a v. expensive option.

Also it would confine him to a tiny area.

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Gatriel
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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby Gatriel » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:31 am

OP. . . . where did you send off your seat deposit to? Don't leave us hanging.

tx1987
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Re: So torn: Pepperdine vs. U of H? Malibu or stinky Houston?

Postby tx1987 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:14 am

HazelEyes wrote:
tx1987 wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
tx1987 wrote:
But, the thing is, I don't want to stay/work in Houston. That I know for sure (and it's about the only thing I know right now).


Also, are these your only two options and have you maxed out on the LSAT? I'm not going to recite the canned "Get a 170, reapply next cycle, go to a t14, profit" advice that alot of people like to give on here since not everyone is capable of getting a 170+. But if you were accepted to UH, I'm guessing your LSAT score couldn't be too far from getting you in somewhere like UGA or Florida which has relatively cheap instate tuition, low COL and the ability to gain residency after one year. These could be semi-reasonable options if you HAVE to get out of Houston.


I got into SMU PT (don't really know why I didn't get in FT), U of H, Pepperdine, Baylor, and U. of S. Carolina. I've gotten WL offers at UT, UGA, Emory, and American. Oh, I also found out today that I got into George Mason.

I think I could do better on the LSAT, but I'm not going to retake it. I've already taken a year off and I'm anxious to get the ball rolling on law school. I was considering going to Pepperdine for a year and then trying to transfer into UT (I used to work for the former UT chancellor/law school dean and he said he'd help me). I know I've gotten into a couple of "better" schools than Pepperdine, but I've just heard such great things about that school, the QOL, the profs, etc. ALL of the former students I've talked to had nothing but wonderful things to say and they seemed to genuinely enjoy law school.


Why not go to George Mason?


I haven't heard the scholarship info for GMU, but since I'm probably not getting anything, it'll be expensive for me.




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