Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

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sanpiero
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Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

Postby sanpiero » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:55 am

...for Bay Area mid/big law and clerkships?

jarofsoup
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Re: Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

Postby jarofsoup » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:01 am

I am no expert at this. But from being on here for long enough any top 14 school such as GULC will put you ahead of a lower ranked T1 like hastings or davis. I am also assuming that UCLA and USC are also better ranked and better choices and are california schools. In the bay area you are competing with Stanford and Cal. So UCLA and USC and GULC I think put you in a better place. I do not know about notre dame.

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sanpiero
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Re: Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

Postby sanpiero » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:18 am

Looks like GULC and ND place about 10% on the west coast. This somewhat answers that part of the question. What about UCLA and USC? I'm inclined to say the opportunity to network while at Hastings alone goes a long way toward making it the better choice. Maybe it's closer to a toss-up btw Hastings/Davis/UCLA/USC for the Bay Area...what do you guys think?

JOThompson
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Re: Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

Postby JOThompson » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:28 am

I'd be interested to hear the TLS consensus on this too.

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smov_operator
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Re: Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

Postby smov_operator » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:29 am

ucla,usc,gulc>davis,hasting>nd. I'd say something like that for big-mid firms only in bay area, (OFMA), and gulc>nd,ucla>davis, usc>hastings for clerkships

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General Tso
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Re: Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

Postby General Tso » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:33 am

smov_operator wrote:ucla,usc,gulc>davis,hasting>nd. I'd say something like that for big-mid firms only in bay area, (OFMA), and gulc>nd,ucla>davis, usc>hastings for clerkships


Agree with the firm rankings but not the clerkships. More CA judges went to Hastings than any other law school, and a large number of Hastings students do summer clerkships. Its location makes it easy to clerk at nearby courts during the semester as well.

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smov_operator
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Re: Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

Postby smov_operator » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:37 am

swheat wrote:
smov_operator wrote:ucla,usc,gulc>davis,hasting>nd. I'd say something like that for big-mid firms only in bay area, (OFMA), and gulc>nd,ucla>davis, usc>hastings for clerkships


Agree with the firm rankings but not the clerkships. More CA judges went to Hastings than any other law school, and a large number of Hastings students do summer clerkships. Its location makes it easy to clerk at nearby courts during the semester as well.


That's a good point, SF has a couple courthouses to say the least. I put davis and usc ahead of hastings just because i think its hella more cutthroat and has a nasty grading curve.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:42 am

sanpiero wrote: I'm inclined to say the opportunity to network while at Hastings alone goes a long way toward making it the better choice.

Hastings is a great school, but I have to say - people here talk about being in the city you want to practice in for this illustrious goal of networking, like it's some magical key that is going to get you a biglaw job. That is simply not how this game works in the vast, vast, vast majority of cases. Networking is great when you're in practice and looking to lateral. It's great when you're going the solo route after years of practicing and are looking to attract others to your firm. Talking to somebody at a firm meet-and-greet and convincing them that you're smart and sociable means nothing when you're interviewing and competing against another student who comes across as equally sociable in an interview, but is top 1/3 at a T-14 (or T17) instead of top 1/3 at Hastings. Some associate at the firm isn't going to stick his neck out for you because he thought you were nice, and demonstrating your interest doesn't mean all that much - firms know people want to work for them. And, to be honest, you probably won't have anything all that intelligent to say to a partner that they haven't heard or particularly care about anyway. This is more of a broad comment than one confined specifically to OP's decision, it's just a recurring line of argument that I've noticed popping up more and more on these boards.

Just my 2 cents.

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General Tso
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Re: Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

Postby General Tso » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:43 am

smov_operator wrote:
swheat wrote:
smov_operator wrote:ucla,usc,gulc>davis,hasting>nd. I'd say something like that for big-mid firms only in bay area, (OFMA), and gulc>nd,ucla>davis, usc>hastings for clerkships


Agree with the firm rankings but not the clerkships. More CA judges went to Hastings than any other law school, and a large number of Hastings students do summer clerkships. Its location makes it easy to clerk at nearby courts during the semester as well.


That's a good point, SF has a couple courthouses to say the least. I put davis and usc ahead of hastings just because i think its hella more cutthroat and has a nasty grading curve.


The CA Supreme Court is right next to Hastings. The 9th Circuit is about 3-4 blocks away. And there is a Superior Court 2 blocks away. I am not sure if there is a state appellate court in SF.

I don't think Hastings is that cutthroat. They restructured the curve about 2-3 years ago. It is now a simple "B=3.0" curve commonly used at other schools. 25% = A range, 60% = B range, 15% = C range.

fortissimo
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Re: Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

Postby fortissimo » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:53 am

swheat wrote:
smov_operator wrote:ucla,usc,gulc>davis,hasting>nd. I'd say something like that for big-mid firms only in bay area, (OFMA), and gulc>nd,ucla>davis, usc>hastings for clerkships


Agree with the firm rankings but not the clerkships. More CA judges went to Hastings than any other law school, and a large number of Hastings students do summer clerkships. Its location makes it easy to clerk at nearby courts during the semester as well.


Summer (and semester) externships =/= clerkships.

Clerkships are paid positions you get for 1-2 years after graduation and are much more prestigious (require top grades, usually from top schools).

According to most recent data, Hastings placed 3.4% into clerkships. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=75513

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General Tso
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Re: Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

Postby General Tso » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:30 am

fortissimo wrote:
swheat wrote:
smov_operator wrote:ucla,usc,gulc>davis,hasting>nd. I'd say something like that for big-mid firms only in bay area, (OFMA), and gulc>nd,ucla>davis, usc>hastings for clerkships


Agree with the firm rankings but not the clerkships. More CA judges went to Hastings than any other law school, and a large number of Hastings students do summer clerkships. Its location makes it easy to clerk at nearby courts during the semester as well.


Summer (and semester) externships =/= clerkships.

Clerkships are paid positions you get for 1-2 years after graduation and are much more prestigious (require top grades, usually from top schools).

According to most recent data, Hastings placed 3.4% into clerkships. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=75513


Good point..thanks for catching that. Looks like Davis placed 1.0% and USC and UCLA placed around 6.0%. Is it common to get outside of your school's region? ie - could one attending ND or GULC compete for west coast clerkships?

Headybrah
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Re: Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

Postby Headybrah » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:42 am

Hastings is a great school, but I have to say - people here talk about being in the city you want to practice in for this illustrious goal of networking, like it's some magical key that is going to get you a biglaw job. That is simply not how this game works in the vast, vast, vast majority of cases. Networking is great when you're in practice and looking to lateral. It's great when you're going the solo route after years of practicing and are looking to attract others to your firm. Talking to somebody at a firm meet-and-greet and convincing them that you're smart and sociable means nothing when you're interviewing and competing against another student who comes across as equally sociable in an interview, but is top 1/3 at a T-14 (or T17) instead of top 1/3 at Hastings. Some associate at the firm isn't going to stick his neck out for you because he thought you were nice, and demonstrating your interest doesn't mean all that much - firms know people want to work for them. And, to be honest, you probably won't have anything all that intelligent to say to a partner that they haven't heard or particularly care about anyway. This is more of a broad comment than one confined specifically to OP's decision, it's just a recurring line of argument that I've noticed popping up more and more on these boards.


what are odds that this guy is fun to hang out with?

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voice of reason
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Re: Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

Postby voice of reason » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:31 am

Headybrah wrote:
Hastings is a great school, but I have to say - people here talk about being in the city you want to practice in for this illustrious goal of networking, like it's some magical key that is going to get you a biglaw job. That is simply not how this game works in the vast, vast, vast majority of cases. Networking is great when you're in practice and looking to lateral. It's great when you're going the solo route after years of practicing and are looking to attract others to your firm. Talking to somebody at a firm meet-and-greet and convincing them that you're smart and sociable means nothing when you're interviewing and competing against another student who comes across as equally sociable in an interview, but is top 1/3 at a T-14 (or T17) instead of top 1/3 at Hastings. Some associate at the firm isn't going to stick his neck out for you because he thought you were nice, and demonstrating your interest doesn't mean all that much - firms know people want to work for them. And, to be honest, you probably won't have anything all that intelligent to say to a partner that they haven't heard or particularly care about anyway. This is more of a broad comment than one confined specifically to OP's decision, it's just a recurring line of argument that I've noticed popping up more and more on these boards.


what are odds that this guy is fun to hang out with?


Irony alert!

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Are Davis and Hastings > UCLA, USC, ND, GULC...

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:43 am

Headybrah wrote:
Hastings is a great school, but I have to say - people here talk about being in the city you want to practice in for this illustrious goal of networking, like it's some magical key that is going to get you a biglaw job. That is simply not how this game works in the vast, vast, vast majority of cases. Networking is great when you're in practice and looking to lateral. It's great when you're going the solo route after years of practicing and are looking to attract others to your firm. Talking to somebody at a firm meet-and-greet and convincing them that you're smart and sociable means nothing when you're interviewing and competing against another student who comes across as equally sociable in an interview, but is top 1/3 at a T-14 (or T17) instead of top 1/3 at Hastings. Some associate at the firm isn't going to stick his neck out for you because he thought you were nice, and demonstrating your interest doesn't mean all that much - firms know people want to work for them. And, to be honest, you probably won't have anything all that intelligent to say to a partner that they haven't heard or particularly care about anyway. This is more of a broad comment than one confined specifically to OP's decision, it's just a recurring line of argument that I've noticed popping up more and more on these boards.


what are odds that this guy is fun to hang out with?

How would any of this possibly make me not fun to hang out with? I'm sorry if you don't like a little dose of reality - people say they're going to go to school XYZ instead of better schools because they can "network" into biglaw jobs while there. In fact that rarely, if ever, happens that way.




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