Hoftra or Richmond? *updated with new rankings*

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dibs
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Hoftra or Richmond? *updated with new rankings*

Postby dibs » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:54 pm

*edit* so i withdrew hofstra this morning via email at work. tonight i find hofstra jumped 16 spots in the rankings, and richmond dropped 11 spots. what are your thoughts NOW?

i realize these aren't t14s or t30s and a lot of you will tell me it's not worth it and what not, but i am interested in an objective comparison: Hofstra (100) or Richmond (77)? 162 / 2.78

Hofstra is $20,000/year, renewable if top 40%.
Richmond is $5,000/year no stipulation.

Hofstra
- $41,780 x 3 years = $125,340. best case = $65,340. worst case = $100,340.

Richmond

$32,450 x 3 years = $97,350 - $15,000 = $82,350

still waiting on: UNLV (75), Denver (77), Gonzaga (100), Drexel (--), and UND (Tier3).

and of course, this is all moot if i get into a canadian school: Dalhousie, UBC, USask
Last edited by dibs on Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

wizoz
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond?

Postby wizoz » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:10 pm

Richmond.

bjf
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond?

Postby bjf » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:13 pm

Where do you want to live?

FWIW, I grew up on Long Island and woudn't attend Hofstra unless it was free or close to free.

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nealric
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond?

Postby nealric » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:16 pm

Richmond x1000

Richmond is the best school in its market. Hofstra is maybe the 10th.

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dibs
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond?

Postby dibs » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:17 pm

bjf wrote:Where do you want to live?

FWIW, I grew up on Long Island and woudn't attend Hofstra unless it was free or close to free.


that's worth a lot, actually. i've heard the same from different sources.

where do i want to live? i don't really know, actually. my school choices in the US were primarily based on fee waivers. i wasn't even going to apply to any until they started jamming my inbox after my LSAT score came out.

the only real thing i'm concerned about is proximity to international and well recognized commercial markets. cost is variable. it's not my main parameter but it comes into play. hofstra places in NYC and richmond in VA, MD, DC. richmond itself is a very corporate community.

there's a chance i won't be accepted into any canadian schools and putting off school for a year is not an option at this point in my career. an american school comes next so i want to make the best choice for someone who has no reservations about where he lives save for corporate accessibility.

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dibs
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond?

Postby dibs » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:18 pm

nealric wrote:Richmond x1000

Richmond is the best school in its market. Hofstra is maybe the 10th.


it is? what about UVA, W&M, and George Mason? or am i misinformed?

wizoz
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond?

Postby wizoz » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:26 pm

I just don't think Hofstra is a place worth going to law school at any cost...even free. I say this because of the fierce competition in the NY market. If you went to Hofstra, you'd probably place about the same in NY as you would if you went to UofR. The advantage of Richmond is that you'd basically only contend with UVA grads for work in VA (minus Arlington) and still have a decent shot at DC. Plus, West End Richmond is gorgeous.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond?

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:31 pm

Go to Richmond. Lower tuition, lower COL, better employment prospects when you graduate. Unless you're dead-set on practicing in NY when you graduate (in which case you have to go to Hofstra), go to Richmond.

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dibs
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond?

Postby dibs » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:34 pm

well, it seems pretty clear and is aligned with my own thought process. wanted to practice due diligence and all that.

thanks for your input, all! now it's really just a matter of seeing if UNLV accepts me. richmond vs UNLV would be a tough choice.

bjf
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond?

Postby bjf » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:12 pm

dibs wrote:
bjf wrote:Where do you want to live?

FWIW, I grew up on Long Island and woudn't attend Hofstra unless it was free or close to free.


that's worth a lot, actually. i've heard the same from different sources.

where do i want to live? i don't really know, actually. my school choices in the US were primarily based on fee waivers. i wasn't even going to apply to any until they started jamming my inbox after my LSAT score came out.

the only real thing i'm concerned about is proximity to international and well recognized commercial markets. cost is variable. it's not my main parameter but it comes into play. hofstra places in NYC and richmond in VA, MD, DC. richmond itself is a very corporate community.

there's a chance i won't be accepted into any canadian schools and putting off school for a year is not an option at this point in my career. an american school comes next so i want to make the best choice for someone who has no reservations about where he lives save for corporate accessibility.


TBH, I would not count on Hofstra placing you in NYC. It is an extremely regional school - most grads end up working in Nassau/Suffolk county. From what I know, Richmond is regional but places well in southern Virginia. If you were deciding between the two and didn't mind living in VA, I would say Richmond hands down. HTH

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:51 pm

If someone was holding a gun up to your head right this moment telling your that you either have to go to hofstra or die you actually might be better off choosing the latter.

But, hey, did you know the median salary at Hofstra is $160K /year and that graduates work at firms like Davis Polk!!:
Employment Statistics
Within nine (9) months of graduation, 99.7% of the Class of 2008 had reported their employment status to the Office of Career Services. Of those members of the Class of 2008 who reported their employment status to us, more than 95% were either employed or pursuing a degree on a full-time basis.

Employment by Sector

For those members of the Class of 2008 who reported employment status to us, 74% were employed in the private sector (law firms and business) and approximately 24% were employed in the public sector. The following chart illustrates the sector-by-sector employment breakdown for the Class of 2008.

Class of 2007 Employment by Sector: Public Interest 4%, Government 10%, Unknown 3%, Judicial Clerk 4%, Business 15%, and Law Firms 64%.


Employment Distribution by Size of Law Firm

For those members of the Class of 2008 who reported employment by a law firm, the breakdown by size of law firm was as follows:

2 to 10 attorneys 48.1%
11 to 25 attorneys 9.7%
26 to 50 attorneys 6.5%
51 to 100 attorneys 6.5%
101 to 250 attorneys 2.6%
251 to 500 attorneys 6.5%
501+ attorneys 16.9%
Unknown size 2.6%

Salary Ranges

For those members of the Class of 2008 who reported both employment status and salary data to us, the salary ranges were as follows:

Private Sector:

* Median salary for full-time employment in the private sector: $160,000
* 75th percentile salary for full-time employment in the private sector: $160,000
* 25th percentile salary for full-time employment in the private sector: $ 67,500

Public Sector:

* Median starting salary for full-time employment in the public sector: $ 52,000
* 75th percentile salary for full-time employment in the public sector: $ 57,358
* 25th percentile salary for full-time employment in the public sector: $ 47,000

For those members of the Class of 2008 who reported both employment status and salary data to us, the median starting salaries for these graduates employed in law firms based on the size of the law firm were as follows:

2 to 10 attorneys $50,000
11 to 25 attorneys $56,000
26 to 50 attorneys $72,500
51 to 100 attorneys $91,250
101 to 250 attorneys $147,500
251 to 500 attorneys $160,000
501+ attorneys $160,000

Please note that the median salaries set forth above are intended to represent a guideline as to the approximate salaries that might be expected in law firms of different sizes. These figures vary from year to year based upon a number of factors, including, but not limited to, market conditions as well as the number of graduates reporting salary information to us.

Geographic Distribution

For those members of the Classes of 2008 who reported employment status to us, approximately 89% accepted jobs in New York and New Jersey. The remaining 11% accepted jobs in nearly 15 states across the country, including Florida, California, Texas, North Carolina and Virginia, plus the District of Columbia.

Taking all Hofstra Law School alumni into account, approximately 25% reside outside of New York, and we have alumni in 45 states and 11 foreign countries.
Selected Recent Placements

The following employers are among those that have hired members of our Classes of 2006, 2007 and 2008:

Law Firms:

* Abrams Garfinkel Margolis Bergson LLP
* Abrams, Fensterman, Fensterman, Eisman, Greenberg, Formato & Einiger, LLP
* Alston & Bird LLP
* Barry McTiernan & Moore
* Bayard, PA
* Bond, Schoeneck & King, PLLC
* Bryan Cave LLP
* Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
* Callan, Koster, Brady & Brennan, LLP
* Certilman Balin Adler & Hyman, LLP
* Chadbourne & Parke, LLP
* Chalos, O’Connor & Duffy, LLP
* Clifford Chance, LLP
* Collard & Roe, PC
* Conway, Farrell, Curtin & Kelly, PC
* Cullen and Dykman LLP
* Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP
* Debevoise & Plimpton LLP
* Dewey & LeBoeuf LLP
* Duval & Stachenfeld LLP
* Edwards, Angell, Palmer & Dodge, LLP
* Epstein, Becker & Green PC
* Farrell Fritz PC
* Flemming Zulack Williamson Zauderer LLP
* Forchelli, Curto, Crowe, Deegan, Schwartz, Mineo & Cohn, LLP
* Fox Horan & Camerini LLP
* Fox Rothschild LLP
* Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson LLP
* Friedman Harfenist Kraut & Perlstein LLP
* Furey, Furey, Leverage, Manzione, Williams & Darlington, P.C.
* Furey, Kerley, Walsh, Matera and Cinquemani, P.C.
* Garson, Gerspach, DeCorato & Cohen LLP
* Holland & Knight LLP
* Jackson Lewis LLP
* Jaspan Schlesinger LLP
* Kasowitz, Benson, Torres & Friedman LLP
* Kaufman Borgeest & Ryan, LLP
* Kaye Scholer LLP
* Keusey, Tutunjian & Bitetto, PC
* Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel, LLP
* L'Abbate, Balkan, Colavita & Contini LLP
* Latham & Watkins, LLP
* Loeb & Loeb LLP
* London Fischer LLP
* McCabe, Collins, McGeough and Fowler, LLP
* Mendes & Mount, LLP
* Meyer, Suozzi, English & Klein, PC
* Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP
* Morgan Lewis & Bockius, LLP
* Moses & Singer LLP
* Mound Cotton Wollan & Greengrass
* Nixon Peabody LLP
* Norton Rose LLP
* Oliff & Berridge, PLC
* Patterson Belknap Webb & Tyler LLP
* Paul, Hastings, Janofsky and Walker LLP
* Peckar & Abramson
* Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
* Proskauer Rose LLP
* Rivkin Radler LLP
* Ruskin Moscou Faltischek PC
* Sanders, Sanders, Block, Woycik, Viener & Grossman, P.C.
* Schlissel, Ostrow, Karabatos & Poepplein PLLC
* Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
* Seyfarth Shaw LLP
* Shearman & Sterling LLP
* Sichenzia Ross Friedman Ference LLP
* Sidley Austin LLP
* Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP
* Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP
* Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
* White & Case LLP
* Wilson, Elser, Moskowitz, Edelman & Dicker LLP
* Winston & Strawn LLP

Federal Judicial Clerkships:

* U.S. Court of Appeals, 5th Circuit
* U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Middle District of Alabama
* U.S. Bankruptcy Court, District of Delaware
* U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of Florida
* U.S. Bankruptcy Court, District of Maryland
* U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York
* U.S. Court of Federal Claims
* U.S. Court of Veterans Appeals
* U.S. District Court, Northern District of Illinois
* U.S. District Court, Eastern District of New York
* U.S. District Court, Western District of Virginia

Public Interest Organizations:

* Administration for Children’s Services
* Catholic Charities Immigrant Services
* Children’s Law Center
* Communication Workers of America District 1 Legal
* Foundation Source Philanthropic Services, Inc.
* Lawyers for Children
* Legal Aid Society of Suffolk County
* Long Island Advocacy Center
* Manhlattan Legal Services
* Maryland Legal Aid
* Nassau County Legal Aid Society
* Project Sentinel
* The Legal Aid Society
* The Legal Aid Society, Juvenile Rights Division

Government Agencies:

* Bronx County District Attorney’s Office
* City of Long Beach
* Internal Revenue Service
* Kings County District Attorney’s Office
* Los Angeles County Public Defender
* Metropolitan Transportation Authority
* Miami-Dade Office of the State Attorney
* Nassau County Attorney’s Office
* Nassau County District Attorney’s Office
* New York City Fire Department
* New York City Human Resources Administration Office of Legal Affairs
* New York City Law Department
* New York City Office of Labor Relations
* New York County District Attorney’s Office
* New York State Attorney General
* New York State Senate
* Orange County District Attorney’s Office
* Queens County District Attorney’s Office
* San Diego County District Attorney’s Office
* Social Security Administration
* Suffolk County District Attorney’s Office
* Texas District Attorney’s Office
* Town of North Hempstead
* Ulster County District Attorney’s Office
* Umatilla County District Attorney’s Office
* U.S. Air Force JAG Corps
* U.S. Army JAG Corps
* U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, Newark Asylum Office
* U.S. Department of Justice
* U.S. Department of Labor
* U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
* U.S. Patent and Trademark Office
* U.S. Probation Department
* Westchester County District Attorney’s Office


http://law.hofstra.edu/StudentLife/Care ... stics.html

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Borhas
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond?

Postby Borhas » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:57 pm

I've lived in Richmond for many years. It's a nice medium sized city, with more cultural stuff than you would think. U of R has a great campus in one of the affluent areas, but it's still fairly close to downtown and all that.

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oberlin08
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond?

Postby oberlin08 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:03 pm

dibs wrote:
nealric wrote:Richmond x1000

Richmond is the best school in its market. Hofstra is maybe the 10th.


it is? what about UVA, W&M, and George Mason? or am i misinformed?



From what I understand, within the city of Richmond itself (and its suburbs), because Richmond is the only school there, it has unparalleled access to the opportunities there and places better than the other VA schools. However, if you were a U of R grad and wanted to work in Arlington, then thats a different ball game..

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nealric
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond?

Postby nealric » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:02 pm

[quote] But, hey, did you know the median salary at Hofstra is $160K /year and that graduates work at firms like Davis Polk!!: ]/quote]
--ImageRemoved--

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dibs
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond? *updated with new rankings*

Postby dibs » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:53 am

bump

green_esqs_n_ham
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Re: Hoftra or Richmond? *updated with new rankings*

Postby green_esqs_n_ham » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:59 am

My firm's office is right near Hofstra and I've worked with some good as well as some mediocre alumni. It's reputation is decent around here, but with smaller firms like these the name of the school matters very little. I hear that a lot of students who graduated last year and even the year before are still having trouble finding real legal jobs. That's probably the case at my school, St. John's, as well. My point is that the jump in the rankings matter very little to the position you are likely to end up in 3 years from now.

Do not believe the career statistics from either Hofstra or St. John's, or anywhere else for that matter. It's probably the case at Richmond. A handful of the top students find a biglaw job, the other good students get decent clerkships or DA positions, maybe some midlaw firms, and the rest either find a small firm during school or, more likely, after they take the bar (although often having an internship at a firm will help coming back or going to another local firm).




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