Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

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Zannie1986
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Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby Zannie1986 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:40 pm

I got accepted to American, which is where I"m leaning towards going, but I am clinging on to hearing from UNC, where my slim chances are dwindling further with each passing day closing in on next week's deposit due date. Im considering writing or calling them expressing continued interest to the effect of 'this IS where i'll go if i'm accepted'..but only if it is worth the difference in schools. seems to me there is merit in being in dc, versus north carolina, esp. with my plans going into public interest; my gut says that there isn't a significant difference between the 30s to 40s in rank; but if unc is a more portable/nationally reputable school then i'd be willing to throw this kind of letter their way as a last move, even though it's probably too late to have an impact at this point anyway. opinions?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:42 pm

Below about 25-30 range, rankings only matter in comparison to other local schools. As in, UNC is the second-best school in North Carolina (to Duke). American, in contrast, is not the second-best law school in the DC market. Neither school is going to be very portable, but UNC will probably give you better employability, albeit within the state of NC.

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Teoeo
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby Teoeo » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:50 pm

I'd say for public INTEREST go to the cheaper one of the two and for public SERVICE go to American.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:57 pm

Teoeo wrote:I'd say for public INTEREST go to the cheaper one of the two and for public SERVICE go to American.

What does this even mean?

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Teoeo
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby Teoeo » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:59 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Teoeo wrote:I'd say for public INTEREST go to the cheaper one of the two and for public SERVICE go to American.

What does this even mean?


Uh, public interest is like non-profit agencies like Legal Services of Northern California (uber low paying btw), while Public Service is more like working for government agencies like the DOJ/DOL

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twert
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby twert » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:00 pm

Teoeo wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Teoeo wrote:I'd say for public INTEREST go to the cheaper one of the two and for public SERVICE go to American.

What does this even mean?


Uh, public interest is like non-profit agencies like Legal Services of Northern California (uber low paying btw), while Public Service is more like working for government agencies like the DOJ/DOL

even if that distinction is totally artificial, the cheapest school is still the right answer for both

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Teoeo
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby Teoeo » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:03 pm

twert wrote:
Teoeo wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Teoeo wrote:I'd say for public INTEREST go to the cheaper one of the two and for public SERVICE go to American.

What does this even mean?


Uh, public interest is like non-profit agencies like Legal Services of Northern California (uber low paying btw), while Public Service is more like working for government agencies like the DOJ/DOL

even if that distinction is totally artificial, the cheapest school is still the right answer for both



Are you saying that the internship opportunities in DC have no weight for someone interested in working for say, the DOJ?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:06 pm

Teoeo wrote:Uh, public interest is like non-profit agencies like Legal Services of Northern California (uber low paying btw), while Public Service is more like working for government agencies like the DOJ/DOL

I've never heard this distinction drawn this way. In fact, I've often seen "public interest" and "public service" used interchangeably. I'm used to seeing people refer to this distinction as "government" versus "NGO".

Teoeo wrote:Uh are you saying that the internship opportunities in DC have no weight for someone interested in working for say, the DOJ?

Someone interested in working for the DOJ needs to go to a much better school than American to have a chance at that. The entire T14 is full of kids wanting to work for the DOJ, folks at American don't stand a chance.

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twert
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby twert » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:07 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Teoeo wrote:Uh, public interest is like non-profit agencies like Legal Services of Northern California (uber low paying btw), while Public Service is more like working for government agencies like the DOJ/DOL

I've never heard this distinction drawn this way. In fact, I've often seen "public interest" and "public service" used interchangeably. I'm used to seeing people refer to this distinction as "government" versus "NGO".

Teoeo wrote:Uh are you saying that the internship opportunities in DC have no weight for someone interested in working for say, the DOJ?

Someone interested in working for the DOJ needs to go to a much better school than American to have a chance at that. The entire T14 is full of kids wanting to work for the DOJ, folks at American don't stand a chance.

this

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Teoeo
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby Teoeo » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:07 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Teoeo wrote:Uh, public interest is like non-profit agencies like Legal Services of Northern California (uber low paying btw), while Public Service is more like working for government agencies like the DOJ/DOL

I've never heard this distinction drawn this way. In fact, I've often seen "public interest" and "public service" used interchangeably. I'm used to seeing people refer to this distinction as "government" versus "NGO".

Teoeo wrote:Uh are you saying that the internship opportunities in DC have no weight for someone interested in working for say, the DOJ?

Someone interested in working for the DOJ needs to go to a much better school than American to have a chance at that. The entire T14 is full of kids wanting to work for the DOJ, folks at American don't stand a chance.



ya ok buddy, I happen to have a friend who works at the DOJ who went to American.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:08 pm

Teoeo wrote:ya ok buddy, I happen to have a friend who works at the DOJ who went to American.

How many years did he work elsewhere before getting hired at DOJ?

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Teoeo
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby Teoeo » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:10 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Teoeo wrote:ya ok buddy, I happen to have a friend who works at the DOJ who went to American.

How many years did he work elsewhere before getting hired at DOJ?



Honors program.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:11 pm

Teoeo wrote:Honors program.

I call BS. Either that or he was the highest-ranked person in his class and he'd done mad networking. Either way, not something most people can aspire for at a school like American.

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Teoeo
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby Teoeo » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:12 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Teoeo wrote:Honors program.

I call BS. Either that or he was the highest-ranked person in his class and he'd done mad networking. Either way, not something most people can aspire for at a school like American.



sigh, ok then, im going to nap

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PDaddy
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby PDaddy » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:21 pm

To answer OP's "OQ"...YES...equal in terms of job prospects anyways. No two law schools are alike.

blueprint87
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby blueprint87 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:23 pm

The post above from VanWinkle is simply not true. While T14 gives you a better shot at DOJ, you still have a chance at a school like American. Look at the schools that sent students to the honors program. There are many schools outside of the T14. Yes, chances are not as good and you have to do well and make connections, but to say you would have no chance is not true.

OP, go where you think you would like to work. Both are regional. If you have visited, take into consideration where you felt best. Good Luck!

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kalvano
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby kalvano » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:24 pm

vanwinkle wrote:Someone interested in working for the DOJ needs to go to a much better school than American to have a chance at that. The entire T14 is full of kids wanting to work for the DOJ, folks at American don't stand a chance.



Not to be too nitpicky, but you can go to work for the DOJ even if you go to a crappy school, it just depends on how good you are at your job.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 pm

blueprint87 wrote:The post above from VanWinkle is simply not true. While T14 gives you a better shot at DOJ, you still have a chance at a school like American. Look at the schools that sent students to the honors program. There are many schools outside of the T14. Yes, chances are not as good and you have to do well and make connections, but to say you would have no chance is not true.

Those schools each only send, at most, a couple students to the DOJ Honors program every year, and they're going to be the ones that have truly excelled there. DOJ Honors is incredibly competitive, and even at the T14 you have to do well to be considered for it. I'm not denying there's a chance, but it's so small that it doesn't justify going there. You can get to the DOJ from American, but you shouldn't go to American to get to the DOJ.

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kalvano
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby kalvano » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:36 pm

OP - which department of the DOJ? USAO?

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evilgenius
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby evilgenius » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:44 pm

To answer the original question, schools in the 30's and 40's are equal.

To answer the question about UNC vs. American - yes UNC = American. UNC is regional, but better ranked. American has a national rep, opps for internships, etc. There probably isn't a difference in employment prospects.

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Teoeo
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby Teoeo » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:01 pm

I dont want to get sucked back into this, but you guys might find this interesting

http://www.justice.gov/oarm/arm/hp/lawschools.htm

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Zannie1986
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby Zannie1986 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:09 am

oh man! Well, it's a good thing I'm not interested in working for the DOJ then....OR IS IT! hahahaha shoot i don't know if that translates into making sense over the internet...thought i was a comic genius.
I DO actually think i've heard the difference between that distinction, interest vs. service, but i'm glad someone asked cause i was a deer in headlights for a min there.
there IS a difference between say, american and seton hall (70something)/ northeastern (90something) though right? heh, gotta feel assured that american's rank/rep is worth giving up scholarship money from the only other schools into me right now...thanks for input.
Luv,
Zannie

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kalvano
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby kalvano » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:20 am

Teoeo wrote:I dont want to get sucked back into this, but you guys might find this interesting

http://www.justice.gov/oarm/arm/hp/lawschools.htm




Wait, you mean prestigious programs and opportunities are available to people outside the T14?

That's crazy talk.

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thickfreakness
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby thickfreakness » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:26 am

vanwinkle wrote:
Teoeo wrote:I'd say for public INTEREST go to the cheaper one of the two and for public SERVICE go to American.

What does this even mean?



Never question Bruce Dickinson.

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evilgenius
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Re: Is a school ranked in the 30s about = to one in the 40s?

Postby evilgenius » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:27 am

Zannie1986 wrote:oh man! Well, it's a good thing I'm not interested in working for the DOJ then....OR IS IT! hahahaha shoot i don't know if that translates into making sense over the internet...thought i was a comic genius.
I DO actually think i've heard the difference between that distinction, interest vs. service, but i'm glad someone asked cause i was a deer in headlights for a min there.
there IS a difference between say, american and seton hall (70something)/ northeastern (90something) though right? heh, gotta feel assured that american's rank/rep is worth giving up scholarship money from the only other schools into me right now...thanks for input.
Luv,
Zannie


It really depends on your goals. If you want to work in the DC gov't or non-profit sectors or if you ever want Big Law, American is your best bet.

If you're thinking about public interest (or service? lol) more broadly, you may want to take on as little debt as possible. I'm not sure if American has an LRAP program, but if this is your goal, I would go for Northeastern over American. Public Interest is NE's strong suit, they have mandatory internship requirements, which will enable you to network, and (i'm guessing) they gave you money.

If the choice is between Seton Hall and American though, I'd say go to American.




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