Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Best private sector career prospects?

Brooklyn
5
16%
Santa Clara
11
34%
American University (DC)
16
50%
 
Total votes: 32

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bk1
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Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:26 pm

Based purely on career prospects in the private sector, which gives me the best shot? (Assuming equal schollies, the 3 areas are equal to me, etc.)

digitalcntrl
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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby digitalcntrl » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:56 pm

Not even close. Low T1 vs. mid to low T2. Easy answer: American.

TargusTargus
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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby TargusTargus » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:13 pm

digitalcntrl wrote:Not even close. Low T1 vs. mid to low T2. Easy answer: American.


I really don't think it's such an easy decision.

Brooklyn has top clinics and even with competition from Columbia, NYU, and Fordham, places very well into New York's best firms (and therefore, many of the country's best firms). American being 16 spots higher in the USN rankings does not guarantee you better career options or a better chance at becoming a good lawyer. But AU has great clinics too, so all other things being equal, ask yourself if you'd rather spend three years in DC or Brooklyn, and where you'd most want to live and work.

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bk1
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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:05 pm

This is what I was wondering. I read a lot of people saying things like "outside of the top schools, 20 places in the rankings is irrelevant" or "rank 40-80 are all the same" so I wonder whether a school that is at the bottom of T1 is significantly different than one near the top of T2. Looking at http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/composite.pdf (I realize it is a few years outdated) it seems that BLS and AU show similar stats, with Santa Clara being slightly below them. What do other people think about those stats?

And I see several people voting for SCU, why? And why not BLS? Or are these schools just so similar in job prospects post-grad that the only real difference is location?

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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby erniesto » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:09 pm

digitalcntrl wrote:Not even close. Low T1 vs. mid to low T2. Easy answer: American.


Rankings lemming alert.


They're all pretty much equal. Pick the one in the region you want, assuming equivalent cost of living.

Also, I'd avoid California like the plague unless you have a full tuition scholarship or Boalt/USC/Stanford admission right now.

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bk1
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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:13 pm

erniesto wrote:Also, I'd avoid California like the plague unless you have a full tuition scholarship or Boalt/USC/Stanford admission right now.


Why? (And secondarily why would say NY be any better?)

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ihaftagetinsomewhere
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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby ihaftagetinsomewhere » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:49 pm

erniesto wrote:
digitalcntrl wrote:Not even close. Low T1 vs. mid to low T2. Easy answer: American.


Rankings lemming alert.


They're all pretty much equal. Pick the one in the region you want, assuming equivalent cost of living.

Also, I'd avoid California like the plague unless you have a full tuition scholarship or Boalt/USC/Stanford admission right now.


As a USC 1L who barely got a summer job, who also noticed I was competing a lot with the T14 for jobs in LA and SF, I would say stay away from Santa Clara and go with American.

Rankings lemmings are right and I say that speaking from actual experience looking for jobs. The employers are rankings lemmings and the point of going to law school is to get a job.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby gwuorbust » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:18 pm

for IP easy choice for Santa Clara. If you have a technical background this is really only the way that you could look to make 'almost biglaw $$$' (or if you are top 15% at American, but don't count on that)

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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby erniesto » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:38 pm

ihaftagetinsomewhere wrote:
erniesto wrote:
digitalcntrl wrote:Not even close. Low T1 vs. mid to low T2. Easy answer: American.


Rankings lemming alert.


They're all pretty much equal. Pick the one in the region you want, assuming equivalent cost of living.

Also, I'd avoid California like the plague unless you have a full tuition scholarship or Boalt/USC/Stanford admission right now.


As a USC 1L who barely got a summer job, who also noticed I was competing a lot with the T14 for jobs in LA and SF, I would say stay away from Santa Clara and go with American.

Rankings lemmings are right and I say that speaking from actual experience looking for jobs. The employers are rankings lemmings and the point of going to law school is to get a job.


If you think a 45+ ranked school in D.C. is any better off than a 61 ranked in NYC, you're kidding yourself. Though I will cede the point to the actual law student here. Apparently USC is sucking, that is to say, if this person wasn't bullshitting around with a median GPA and looking for well paying internships. As you go down the rankings however, the difference in job prospects (by the numbers) becomes less and less distinct.

Cali is worse off budget wise than NYC or VA/MY. Your taxes are going to go up, your tuition is likely going to continue to sky rocket, and from what I have been reading it looks like the LA and SF legal markets are falling down the crapper quicker than NYC (which appears to be stabilizing) and especially DC.

Also, I seriously doubt your CoA will be equivalent at SCU. They appear miserly with their scholarships in comparison to BLS and American. And you shouldn't be footing a big tuition bill from any of these schools (see USC commenter).

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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby bk1 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:47 am

erniesto wrote:If you think a 45+ ranked school in D.C. is any better off than a 61 ranked in NYC, you're kidding yourself.


This was part of my concern. I prefer BLS to American, but am willing to go to American for better prospects. To me it feels like the difference is marginal (especially when looking at the link I posted earlier) but being a 0L I was not sure whether a low T1 was that much greater than a high T2.

erniesto wrote:Cali is worse off budget wise than NYC or VA/MY. Your taxes are going to go up, your tuition is likely going to continue to sky rocket, and from what I have been reading it looks like the LA and SF legal markets are falling down the crapper quicker than NYC (which appears to be stabilizing) and especially DC.

Also, I seriously doubt your CoA will be equivalent at SCU. They appear miserly with their scholarships in comparison to BLS and American. And you shouldn't be footing a big tuition bill from any of these schools (see USC commenter).


If the NYC market is really that much better off than CA then it seems like that may be the tipping point for me. Also, I sadly do not have the technical background for IP.

erniesto
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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby erniesto » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:51 am

Sounds like you need to google some NALP placement searches and the California legal market. Also start reading Above the Law archives, they have some good info in there.

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bk1
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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby bk1 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:19 am

erniesto wrote:Sounds like you need to google some NALP placement searches and the California legal market. Also start reading Above the Law archives, they have some good info in there.


Thanks for the input.

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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby digitalcntrl » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:50 pm

erniesto wrote:
If you think a 45+ ranked school in D.C. is any better off than a 61 ranked in NYC, you're kidding yourself.


Incorrect. I say this not only as a 2L in law school but as someone who works in the field. Employers definitely look at your rankings even if its between a rank 45 vs. 61. The amount of elitism and prestige given to rank is enormous in this field. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

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bk1
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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby bk1 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:34 pm

digitalcntrl wrote:
erniesto wrote:
If you think a 45+ ranked school in D.C. is any better off than a 61 ranked in NYC, you're kidding yourself.


Incorrect. I say this not only as a 2L in law school but as someone who works in the field. Employers definitely look at your rankings even if its between a rank 45 vs. 61. The amount of elitism and prestige given to rank is enormous in this field. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.


Obviously I do not have the experience you do, but from the attitude on the boards I can see where erniesto is coming from. As in, outside of the T14 schools are primarily regional so they are not competing with every school in the rankings. I.E. even though BLS is 61, what really matters is its place among NYC schools (after T14's, Fordham, Cardozo, etc) and for American what would matter is its place among VA/DC/MD schools (behind GW, W&M, etc) and when looking at that it doesn't seem to me that American's 16 spots in the ranking means much because regionally the two schools are similar in their regions. Correct me if I am wrong of course.

As to the votes, I understand why people vote for American (it's T1), but if people could explain why so many votes for SCU and so few for BLS.

digitalcntrl
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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby digitalcntrl » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:40 pm

bk1 wrote:
digitalcntrl wrote:
erniesto wrote:
If you think a 45+ ranked school in D.C. is any better off than a 61 ranked in NYC, you're kidding yourself.


Incorrect. I say this not only as a 2L in law school but as someone who works in the field. Employers definitely look at your rankings even if its between a rank 45 vs. 61. The amount of elitism and prestige given to rank is enormous in this field. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.


Obviously I do not have the experience you do, but from the attitude on the boards I can see where erniesto is coming from. As in, outside of the T14 schools are primarily regional so they are not competing with every school in the rankings. I.E. even though BLS is 61, what really matters is its place among NYC schools (after T14's, Fordham, Cardozo, etc) and for American what would matter is its place among VA/DC/MD schools (behind GW, W&M, etc) and when looking at that it doesn't seem to me that American's 16 spots in the ranking means much because regionally the two schools are similar in their regions. Correct me if I am wrong of course.

As to the votes, I understand why people vote for American (it's T1), but if people could explain why so many votes for SCU and so few for BLS.


Such a presumption may work outside major markets, where there is little competition from other regions, but certainly not in DC or NYC. The DC and NYC markets attract people from the T30 regardless of what region they are in. These are they people you are competing against. Your prospects will invariabily increase if you go to a T1 vs. a T2 school.

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bk1
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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby bk1 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:44 pm

digitalcntrl wrote:Such a presumption may work outside major markets, where there is little competition from other regions, but certainly not in DC or NYC. The DC and NYC markets attract people from the T30 regardless of what region they are in. These are they people you are competing against. Your prospects will invariabily increase if you go to a T1 vs. a T2 school.


I see. It is hard for me to fathom that there is such a difference between rank 50 and rank 51, but as I have no basis for my claims I can only defer to those with more knowledge.

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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby digitalcntrl » Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:29 pm

bk1 wrote:
digitalcntrl wrote:Such a presumption may work outside major markets, where there is little competition from other regions, but certainly not in DC or NYC. The DC and NYC markets attract people from the T30 regardless of what region they are in. These are they people you are competing against. Your prospects will invariabily increase if you go to a T1 vs. a T2 school.


I see. It is hard for me to fathom that there is such a difference between rank 50 and rank 51, but as I have no basis for my claims I can only defer to those with more knowledge.


I seriously doubt anyone 50 vs. 51 makes a real difference. 15 spots and the fact that you cans say you went to a T1 instead of a T2 school definitely does. Law firms are all about prestige.

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bk1
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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby bk1 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:08 am

digitalcntrl wrote:I seriously doubt anyone 50 vs. 51 makes a real difference. 15 spots and the fact that you cans say you went to a T1 instead of a T2 school definitely does. Law firms are all about prestige.


Point taken.

Anybody wish to enlighten me as to why the ton of votes for SCU? (Especially considering I do not have the UG degree to do IP.)

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sanpiero
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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby sanpiero » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:13 am

it's in CA

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bk1
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Re: Brooklyn v Santa Clara v American (DC)

Postby bk1 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:34 am

sanpiero wrote:it's in CA


That was the only reason I could think of was that SCU was being voted for b/c of the CA market and less competition from other schools, but others have said that the CA market is shit right now and that NY/DC are better off.




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