HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

What would you do?

Harvard Law School
133
43%
T-14 (just think of your favorite) with full Scholarship
173
57%
 
Total votes: 306

APimpNamedSlickback
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:28 pm

underachiever wrote:Debt free is the way to be
....my new motto after spending way too much on a law school with a flashy name


tbf, penn state isnt THAT flashy. big 10 sports can only so far, no?

Pearalegal
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby Pearalegal » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:28 pm

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:
underachiever wrote:Debt free is the way to be
....my new motto after spending way too much on a law school with a flashy name


tbf, penn state isnt THAT flashy. big 10 sports can only so far, no?


Again with the tired joke.

bigben
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby bigben » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:33 pm

Money for sure. I might have said Harvard when I was a 0L and still under the spell of prestige. The real differences in opportunities aren't worth it. Choosing Harvard would be an act of pure vanity - a very effective one, but vanity nonetheless.

dakatz
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby dakatz » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:35 pm

bigben wrote:Money for sure. I might have said Harvard when I was a 0L and still under the spell of prestige. The real differences in opportunities aren't worth it. Choosing Harvard would be an act of pure vanity - a very effective one, but vanity nonetheless.


I'm pretty sure any rational adult with any sort of concept of debt, as well as cost/benefit analysis would say go with the money.

Flanker1067
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby Flanker1067 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:36 pm

dakatz wrote:
bigben wrote:Money for sure. I might have said Harvard when I was a 0L and still under the spell of prestige. The real differences in opportunities aren't worth it. Choosing Harvard would be an act of pure vanity - a very effective one, but vanity nonetheless.


I'm pretty sure any rational adult with any sort of concept of debt, as well as cost/benefit analysis would say go with the money.


Where is the fun in being a "rational adult"? Don't do something because one of them would it.

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kurla88
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby kurla88 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:37 pm

A year ago I would have said Harvard. After 1L, the idea of law school being zero risk/still high reward sounds amazing.

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ogman05
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby ogman05 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:39 pm

LOL. 50/50 on the poll. I chose HLS man because I would love to have the unlimited acheivement potential with nothing holding me back. Truth is people look at what school you went to. I look at my dentists' and see he went to Colombia. But it would align with what I want to do. According to the poll there is no wrong decision. For me it would only be tough to choose past T6 free with stipend vs. Harvard. Any other school would be HLS with me. Good luck.

bigben
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby bigben » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:40 pm

Flanker1067 wrote:
dakatz wrote:
bigben wrote:Money for sure. I might have said Harvard when I was a 0L and still under the spell of prestige. The real differences in opportunities aren't worth it. Choosing Harvard would be an act of pure vanity - a very effective one, but vanity nonetheless.


I'm pretty sure any rational adult with any sort of concept of debt, as well as cost/benefit analysis would say go with the money.


Where is the fun in being a "rational adult"? Don't do something because one of them would it.

The fun of being a rational adult comes later on when instead of being swamped by debt and stuck in a job you hate, you have friends and a comfortable life and a retirement fund.
Last edited by bigben on Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Chichaca
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby Chichaca » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:41 pm

bigben wrote:
Flanker1067 wrote:
dakatz wrote:
bigben wrote:Money for sure. I might have said Harvard when I was a 0L and still under the spell of prestige. The real differences in opportunities aren't worth it. Choosing Harvard would be an act of pure vanity - a very effective one, but vanity nonetheless.


I'm pretty sure any rational adult with any sort of concept of debt, as well as cost/benefit analysis would say go with the money.


Where is the fun in being a "rational adult"? Don't do something because one of them would it.


The fun of being a rational adult comes later on when instead of being swamped by debt and stuck in a job you hate, you have friends and a comfortable life and a retirement fund.

Couldn't an argument be made that Harvard would be more likely to get you a job you like?

dakatz
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby dakatz » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:44 pm

"The fun of being a rational adult comes later on when instead of being swamped by debt and stuck in a job you hate, you have friends and a comfortable life and a retirement fund."

"Couldn't an argument be made that Harvard would be more likely to get you a job you like?"

Once you are comparing the very top schools, the differences are quite marginal. Comparing something like Penn vs. Harvard, if you just aspire to some biglaw position, the marginal benefit of Harvard in gaining such a position simply isn't worth 200K. That money would only be buying you additional "prestige", without any difference in the job you end up with. Sure, if the guy is going to finish bottom of the class, then I'd rather finish bottom of Harvard than anywhere else. But the guy likely won't be bottom of the class anywhere.

bigben
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby bigben » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:47 pm

ogman05 wrote:LOL. 50/50 on the poll. I chose HLS man because I would love to have the unlimited acheivement potential with nothing holding me back. Truth is people look at what school you went to. I look at my dentists' and see he went to Colombia. But it would align with what I want to do. According to the poll there is no wrong decision. For me it would only be tough to choose past T6 free with stipend vs. Harvard. Any other school would be HLS with me. Good luck.


If anything, I think the poll shows that taking the money is advisable. This is a poll of people who are mostly applying or getting ready to apply to law school. There is no other group of people more enamored with prestige, obsessed over weighing every precious ounce that may be derived from a school name.

I don't mean to pretend there is a single right answer necessarily but I think taking the money is advisable for the vast majority of people including the OP based on what they have said.

Kong456
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby Kong456 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:50 pm

OP - have you visited Harvard?

FLS08
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby FLS08 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:18 pm

I voted T-14 for free. Don't overestimate the ease of paying off $200K of debt plus interest, especially if you only plan on working in BigLaw for a few years. After you start paying for a house, kids, etc., salaries that once seemed astronomical to you will suddenly feel merely comfortable. In my opinion, the incremental improvement in prestige and opportunities of HLS are not worth the debt.

dakatz
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby dakatz » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:20 pm

I think someone might have said something similar, but its worth repeating:

OP, if the most biased and prestige-blinded sample you can possibly ask manages to outvote Harvard for the full-ride, then I'd say its the right choice :)

APimpNamedSlickback
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:25 pm

i would not take DNCG at full with a stipend over hls.

i would only turn down hls for ccn free. but i have huge professional and public service ambitions, and perhaps the trade off looks somewhat different for you op

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snowpeach06
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby snowpeach06 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:34 pm

I don't know. I mean, I can't imagine that Harvard would be THAT much better than another top school. Sure, it would be awesome to say you went to Harvard. Really awesome. And Cambridge is great. But even if you make $150k out of law school, half will probably go to taxes, then to living. In reality it will still take you ages to pay off the debt, no matter how great of a job you get coming out. Basically though, you have an impossible decision with no bad options, so, flip a coin.

APimpNamedSlickback
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:37 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:I don't know. I mean, I can't imagine that Harvard would be THAT much better than another top school. Sure, it would be awesome to say you went to Harvard. Really awesome. And Cambridge is great. But even if you make $150k out of law school, half will probably go to taxes, then to living. In reality it will still take you ages to pay off the debt, no matter how great of a job you get coming out. Basically though, you have an impossible decision with no bad options, so, flip a coin.


what do you mean by "great job?" v10 firm or just any biglaw job that pays market. just any clerkship or something in, say, the 7th district.

just depends on one's goals.

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b.gump81
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby b.gump81 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:39 pm

i voted t-14 over harvard, but then i saw it was michigan

go to harvard

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NayBoer
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby NayBoer » Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:42 pm

Doesn't "free" still mean 15-20k per year in COL? So really we're comparing like 50k to 200k?

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kurla88
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby kurla88 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:55 pm

NayBoer wrote:Doesn't "free" still mean 15-20k per year in COL? So really we're comparing like 50k to 200k?


Partly yes, but either way (even if you had a job) you'd have to pay for COL for the next three years of your life, so I don't think that's super-relevant. Although it might be an additional plus that Ann Arbor/whatever is cheaper than Cambridge?

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kittenmittons
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby kittenmittons » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:01 pm

b.gump81 wrote:i voted t-14 over harvard, but then i saw it was michigan

go to harvard

1000 times this

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romothesavior
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby romothesavior » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:01 pm

I voted for Harvard because, well, its Harvard.

Seriously though, I think this amounts to a very personal choice. I would take HLS for the same reasons Desert Fox articulated: lower T-14 schools (although doing very well) are still struggling with median and below median students in big law.

Also, most people on here say, "After you get your first job, it won't matter where you went. The only thing that will matter is the quality of your work." I think this is true, with a few exceptions. I think Harvard is one of those exceptions. Having "Havard University, J.D." on the top of your resume will always give you a big ol' +1 in the eyes of employers.

Finally, what are your career goals? If you are considering academia or clerkship, I'd go with Harvard all the way. HYS gets a big boost within the "brainy" sector of the legal community.

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Steven Perry
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby Steven Perry » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:04 pm

dakatz wrote:
bigben wrote:Money for sure. I might have said Harvard when I was a 0L and still under the spell of prestige. The real differences in opportunities aren't worth it. Choosing Harvard would be an act of pure vanity - a very effective one, but vanity nonetheless.


I'm pretty sure any rational adult with any sort of concept of debt, as well as cost/benefit analysis would say go with the money.


I bet the vast majority of those "rational adults" didn't get into HLS.

I've been thinking about this a lot as of late, and I don't think I'd turn down scholarship money at a T-14 to pay sticker at any school outside of Yale. I would LOVE to go to my high school reunion in 3 years and tell all the girls I couldn't get back then that I'm attending HLS, but outside that debauchery-filled, politics career-destroying weekend, I'd much rather not be stressed about paying back debt. A J.D. from Michigan, NYU, U Chicago, ect will always be on my resume, but the fear of my college debt will slowly consume my soul.

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kittenmittons
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby kittenmittons » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:06 pm

Steven Perry wrote:
dakatz wrote:
bigben wrote:Money for sure. I might have said Harvard when I was a 0L and still under the spell of prestige. The real differences in opportunities aren't worth it. Choosing Harvard would be an act of pure vanity - a very effective one, but vanity nonetheless.

I'm pretty sure any rational adult with any sort of concept of debt, as well as cost/benefit analysis would say go with the money.


I bet the vast majority of those "rational adults" didn't get into HLS.

I've been thinking about this a lot as of late, and I don't think I'd turn down scholarship money at a T-14 to pay sticker at any school outside of Yale. I would LOVE to go to my high school reunion in 3 years and tell all the girls I couldn't get back then that I'm attending HLS, but outside that debauchery-filled, politics career-destroying weekend, I'd much rather not be stressed about paying back debt. A J.D. from Michigan, NYU, U Chicago, ect will always be on my resume, but the fear of my college debt will slowly consume my soul.

Preftige lasts forever

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rayiner
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Re: HLS vs. T-14 for Free! Need to decide ASAP!

Postby rayiner » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:08 pm

Harvard. You'll be debt-free at T14, but also unemployed.




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