DePaul ($$) v. Sparty ($$$)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

DePaul ($$) v. Spart ($$$)

DePaul ($45K scholarship)
2
22%
Michigan State ($75K scholarship)
7
78%
 
Total votes: 9

independentgeorge
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:14 pm

DePaul ($$) v. Sparty ($$$)

Postby independentgeorge » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:57 am

Not the most glamorous choice, but any help or advice would be appreciated.

Here's where I'm at: DePaul offered $15K a year with a 3.2 stip (top 40%-50% ish). Tuition and fees if I am able to keep the scholarship would be about $75K (add more for COL, though I may have help from the 'rents here so I left it out.) Michigan St. offered $25K a year with a 3.0 stip (guessing top 50%ish or so). Tuition and fees if I am able to keep the scholarship would be about $25K.

What I like about DePaul:
1) Location. I want to be in Chicago after graduation.
2) Good rep in the city and strong alumni support.
3) It's the better ranked school with a much longer track record.

What I don't like about DePaul:
1) Expensive even with the scholarship.
2) 3.2 stip.

What I like about State:
1) Cheap.
2) Very impressed with the school during this process. They have given out lots of big scholarships, which shows me that they're trying to attract better students.
3) (In my opinion) State is going to move up the rankings fairly quickly.

What I don't like about State:
1) Location - it's not Chicago.
2) Not totally confident that a good performance will get me to Chicago, though the admissions office says there are plenty of alumni there.
3) Current ranking as a T3


Bottom line is that I would love to end up in Chicago. DePaul will make that easier, but it won't be impossible from State (just a lot harder). No interest in PI. Would like my debt to be reflective of the realistic job options that I will have in 3 years (read: I'm not paying over $200K to get a JD). I'm looking for the better value.

So is DePaul worth the extra debt?

User avatar
patrickd139
Posts: 2883
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:53 pm

Re: DePaul ($$) v. Sparty ($$$)

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:17 am

independentgeorge wrote:[strike]Not the most glamorous choice, but any help or advice would be appreciated.

Here's where I'm at: DePaul offered $15K a year with a 3.2 stip (top 40%-50% ish). Tuition and fees if I am able to keep the scholarship would be about $75K (add more for COL, though I may have help from the 'rents here so I left it out.) Michigan St. offered $25K a year with a 3.0 stip (guessing top 50%ish or so). Tuition and fees if I am able to keep the scholarship would be about $25K.

What I like about DePaul:
1) Location. I want to be in Chicago after graduation.
2) Good rep in the city and strong alumni support.
3) It's the better ranked school with a much longer track record.

What I don't like about DePaul:
1) Expensive even with the scholarship.
2) 3.2 stip.

What I like about State:
1) Cheap.
2) Very impressed with the school during this process. They have given out lots of big scholarships, which shows me that they're trying to attract better students.
3) (In my opinion) State is going to move up the rankings fairly quickly.

What I don't like about State:
1) Location - it's not Chicago.
2) Not totally confident that a good performance will get me to Chicago, though the admissions office says there are plenty of alumni there.
3) Current ranking as a T3[/strike]


Bottom line is that I would love to end up in Chicago. [strike]DePaul will make that easier, but it won't be impossible from State (just a lot harder).[/strike] No interest in PI. [strike]Would like my debt to be reflective of the realistic job options that I will have in 3 years (read: I'm not paying over $200K to get a JD). I'm looking for the better value.

So is DePaul worth the extra debt?[/strike]


Since you want to work in Chicago, go to DePaul.

ndpfn
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: DePaul ($$) v. Sparty ($$$)

Postby ndpfn » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:05 pm

DePaul is probably the safer bet if you're dead set on Chicago. If you're ok with staying in Michigan, take State without question.

User avatar
XxSpyKEx
Posts: 1741
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:48 am

Re: DePaul ($$) v. Sparty ($$$)

Postby XxSpyKEx » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:35 pm

independentgeorge wrote:Not the most glamorous choice, but any help or advice would be appreciated.

Here's where I'm at: DePaul offered $15K a year with a 3.2 stip (top 40%-50% ish). Tuition and fees if I am able to keep the scholarship would be about $75K (add more for COL, though I may have help from the 'rents here so I left it out.) Michigan St. offered $25K a year with a 3.0 stip (guessing top 50%ish or so). Tuition and fees if I am able to keep the scholarship would be about $25K.

What I like about DePaul:
1) Location. I want to be in Chicago after graduation.
2) Good rep in the city and strong alumni support.
3) It's the better ranked school with a much longer track record.

What I don't like about DePaul:
1) Expensive even with the scholarship.
2) 3.2 stip.

What I like about State:
1) Cheap.
2) Very impressed with the school during this process. They have given out lots of big scholarships, which shows me that they're trying to attract better students.
3) (In my opinion) State is going to move up the rankings fairly quickly.

What I don't like about State:
1) Location - it's not Chicago.
2) Not totally confident that a good performance will get me to Chicago, though the admissions office says there are plenty of alumni there.
3) Current ranking as a T3


Bottom line is that I would love to end up in Chicago. DePaul will make that easier, but it won't be impossible from State (just a lot harder). No interest in PI. Would like my debt to be reflective of the realistic job options that I will have in 3 years (read: I'm not paying over $200K to get a JD). I'm looking for the better value.

So is DePaul worth the extra debt?


I think you're seriously underestimating the cost of living and the effect of interest on your total student loan balance for 3 years.

The excitement experienced by those admitted to DePaul Law School may deteriorate once the total cost of attendance is calculated. Tuition itself is not shockingly high—at roughly $37,500 (full-time) per year, it is consistent with that of other private schools. The cost of room & board, however, is well above average. Both the Princeton Review and USNews give estimates of over $20,000 for room & board. Combine these figures with book costs and various miscellaneous fees, and the annual cost of a DePaul education climbs to approximately $60,000 per year, with a three-year total likely to top $180,000.


http://www.top-law-schools.com/depaul-law.html

At $22.5K /year for cost of living, books, etc you'll be at $67.5K in debt alone. Then tack on your $75K for the 3 years and you are at $142K not including interest. Figure on the interest you'll accrue you'll be closer to $170K. So much for not spending $200K for a JD, you'll be pretty close. Also, that 3.2 sounds like a steep GPA requirement to keep the scholly. You might want to check and see what class rank that comes out to.

Michigan st. will also be close to a total of $150-160K in debt, won't get you into Chicago, and I'd bet that 3.0 GPA stipulation is close to as brutal as the 3.2 at Depaul.

If you want Chicago, Depaul is the smarter choice, but at those prices.

Long story short- both schools are a pretty terrible investment (particularly ITE where there are NYU 3Ls making youtube videos about how they can't find any legal job at all). I can understand not wanting to go into serious debt for law school, but that's exactly what you are doing by attending either of these schools.

EDIT- I also wanted to mention that you have virtually no shot at Chicago biglaw at all from either of those schools... I actually looked up the NALP figures for this year and posted them in another thread, and it was a total of 256 summer associates anticipated for this summer (down from 807 SAs in 2007), including all the IP boutiques. Good luck getting one of those from Depaul.

independentgeorge
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:14 pm

Re: DePaul ($$) v. Sparty ($$$)

Postby independentgeorge » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:02 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
independentgeorge wrote:Not the most glamorous choice, but any help or advice would be appreciated.

Here's where I'm at: DePaul offered $15K a year with a 3.2 stip (top 40%-50% ish). Tuition and fees if I am able to keep the scholarship would be about $75K (add more for COL, though I may have help from the 'rents here so I left it out.) Michigan St. offered $25K a year with a 3.0 stip (guessing top 50%ish or so). Tuition and fees if I am able to keep the scholarship would be about $25K.

What I like about DePaul:
1) Location. I want to be in Chicago after graduation.
2) Good rep in the city and strong alumni support.
3) It's the better ranked school with a much longer track record.

What I don't like about DePaul:
1) Expensive even with the scholarship.
2) 3.2 stip.

What I like about State:
1) Cheap.
2) Very impressed with the school during this process. They have given out lots of big scholarships, which shows me that they're trying to attract better students.
3) (In my opinion) State is going to move up the rankings fairly quickly.

What I don't like about State:
1) Location - it's not Chicago.
2) Not totally confident that a good performance will get me to Chicago, though the admissions office says there are plenty of alumni there.
3) Current ranking as a T3


Bottom line is that I would love to end up in Chicago. DePaul will make that easier, but it won't be impossible from State (just a lot harder). No interest in PI. Would like my debt to be reflective of the realistic job options that I will have in 3 years (read: I'm not paying over $200K to get a JD). I'm looking for the better value.

So is DePaul worth the extra debt?


I think you're seriously underestimating the cost of living and the effect of interest on your total student loan balance for 3 years.

The excitement experienced by those admitted to DePaul Law School may deteriorate once the total cost of attendance is calculated. Tuition itself is not shockingly high—at roughly $37,500 (full-time) per year, it is consistent with that of other private schools. The cost of room & board, however, is well above average. Both the Princeton Review and USNews give estimates of over $20,000 for room & board. Combine these figures with book costs and various miscellaneous fees, and the annual cost of a DePaul education climbs to approximately $60,000 per year, with a three-year total likely to top $180,000.


http://www.top-law-schools.com/depaul-law.html

At $22.5K /year for cost of living, books, etc you'll be at $67.5K in debt alone. Then tack on your $75K for the 3 years and you are at $142K not including interest. Figure on the interest you'll accrue you'll be closer to $170K. So much for not spending $200K for a JD, you'll be pretty close. Also, that 3.2 sounds like a steep GPA requirement to keep the scholly. You might want to check and see what class rank that comes out to.

Michigan st. will also be close to a total of $150-160K in debt, won't get you into Chicago, and I'd bet that 3.0 GPA stipulation is close to as brutal as the 3.2 at Depaul.

If you want Chicago, Depaul is the smarter choice, but at those prices.

Long story short- both schools are a pretty terrible investment (particularly ITE where there are NYU 3Ls making youtube videos about how they can't find any legal job at all). I can understand not wanting to go into serious debt for law school, but that's exactly what you are doing by attending either of these schools.

EDIT- I also wanted to mention that you have virtually no shot at Chicago biglaw at all from either of those schools... I actually looked up the NALP figures for this year and posted them in another thread, and it was a total of 256 summer associates anticipated for this summer (down from 807 SAs in 2007), including all the IP boutiques. Good luck getting one of those from Depaul.





I appreciate your concern, but:

1) State will NOT cost $150k if I keep the scholarship. 3.0 is appox top 50%.
2) As I said in the op, I will probably have COL covered from the 'rents, so it's not factoring into this decision.
3) 3.2 from DePaul is top 40%-50%.
4) Given the intense competition in Chicago and ITE, I'm not expecting a biglaw spot. I'm going to be trying, but I'm not making this decision based on the expectation that 3 years from now I'll be living the models and bottles lifestyle.
5) To reiterate, I'm not expecting biglaw. I've paid close attention to all of the horror stories over the past few years, and I know what I'm getting into. I just want to make the smart choice here, whichever choice that might be.

User avatar
XxSpyKEx
Posts: 1741
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:48 am

Re: DePaul ($$) v. Sparty ($$$)

Postby XxSpyKEx » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:09 pm

independentgeorge wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
independentgeorge wrote:Not the most glamorous choice, but any help or advice would be appreciated.

Here's where I'm at: DePaul offered $15K a year with a 3.2 stip (top 40%-50% ish). Tuition and fees if I am able to keep the scholarship would be about $75K (add more for COL, though I may have help from the 'rents here so I left it out.) Michigan St. offered $25K a year with a 3.0 stip (guessing top 50%ish or so). Tuition and fees if I am able to keep the scholarship would be about $25K.

What I like about DePaul:
1) Location. I want to be in Chicago after graduation.
2) Good rep in the city and strong alumni support.
3) It's the better ranked school with a much longer track record.

What I don't like about DePaul:
1) Expensive even with the scholarship.
2) 3.2 stip.

What I like about State:
1) Cheap.
2) Very impressed with the school during this process. They have given out lots of big scholarships, which shows me that they're trying to attract better students.
3) (In my opinion) State is going to move up the rankings fairly quickly.

What I don't like about State:
1) Location - it's not Chicago.
2) Not totally confident that a good performance will get me to Chicago, though the admissions office says there are plenty of alumni there.
3) Current ranking as a T3


Bottom line is that I would love to end up in Chicago. DePaul will make that easier, but it won't be impossible from State (just a lot harder). No interest in PI. Would like my debt to be reflective of the realistic job options that I will have in 3 years (read: I'm not paying over $200K to get a JD). I'm looking for the better value.

So is DePaul worth the extra debt?


I think you're seriously underestimating the cost of living and the effect of interest on your total student loan balance for 3 years.

The excitement experienced by those admitted to DePaul Law School may deteriorate once the total cost of attendance is calculated. Tuition itself is not shockingly high—at roughly $37,500 (full-time) per year, it is consistent with that of other private schools. The cost of room & board, however, is well above average. Both the Princeton Review and USNews give estimates of over $20,000 for room & board. Combine these figures with book costs and various miscellaneous fees, and the annual cost of a DePaul education climbs to approximately $60,000 per year, with a three-year total likely to top $180,000.


http://www.top-law-schools.com/depaul-law.html

At $22.5K /year for cost of living, books, etc you'll be at $67.5K in debt alone. Then tack on your $75K for the 3 years and you are at $142K not including interest. Figure on the interest you'll accrue you'll be closer to $170K. So much for not spending $200K for a JD, you'll be pretty close. Also, that 3.2 sounds like a steep GPA requirement to keep the scholly. You might want to check and see what class rank that comes out to.

Michigan st. will also be close to a total of $150-160K in debt, won't get you into Chicago, and I'd bet that 3.0 GPA stipulation is close to as brutal as the 3.2 at Depaul.

If you want Chicago, Depaul is the smarter choice, but at those prices.

Long story short- both schools are a pretty terrible investment (particularly ITE where there are NYU 3Ls making youtube videos about how they can't find any legal job at all). I can understand not wanting to go into serious debt for law school, but that's exactly what you are doing by attending either of these schools.

EDIT- I also wanted to mention that you have virtually no shot at Chicago biglaw at all from either of those schools... I actually looked up the NALP figures for this year and posted them in another thread, and it was a total of 256 summer associates anticipated for this summer (down from 807 SAs in 2007), including all the IP boutiques. Good luck getting one of those from Depaul.



I appreciate your concern, but:

1) State will NOT cost $150k if I keep the scholarship. 3.0 is appox top 50%.
2) As I said in the op, I will probably have COL covered from the 'rents, so it's not factoring into this decision.
3) 3.2 from DePaul is top 40%-50%.
4) Given the intense competition in Chicago and ITE, I'm not expecting a biglaw spot. I'm going to be trying, but I'm not making this decision based on the expectation that 3 years from now I'll be living the models and bottles lifestyle.
5) To reiterate, I'm not expecting biglaw. I've paid close attention to all of the horror stories over the past few years, and I know what I'm getting into. I just want to make the smart choice here, whichever choice that might be.


What will Michigan State cost you in tuition? ... I have no idea what their tuition rates are. Why are you even considering Michigan State if you don't want to live in Michigan?

Also what is "the 'rents"? ... If you can knock out the cost of living, health insurance, books, etc somehow and leave with only $75K in debt from Depaul, then that's not too bad. That should be manageable even without biglaw.

independentgeorge
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:14 pm

Re: DePaul ($$) v. Sparty ($$$)

Postby independentgeorge » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:43 pm

The " 'rents " = Parents.

State tuition is slightly less than 35k. Keeping the scholarship means out of pocket tuition of 30k (or 10k per year).

State is being considered because I'm fine with living in MI; it's just not my first choice.

The problem I'm having is: Do I pick the more expensive school because it is in my desired location or do I take the significantly cheaper option and simply forget about Chicago?

Right now I'm leaning towards State because of the competition and saturation in Chicago, but living there is just so damn appealing to me.

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patrickd139
Posts: 2883
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:53 pm

Re: DePaul ($$) v. Sparty ($$$)

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:50 pm

independentgeorge wrote:The " 'rents " = Parents.

State tuition is slightly less than 35k. Keeping the scholarship means out of pocket tuition of 30k (or 10k per year).

State is being considered because I'm fine with living in MI; it's just not my first choice.

The problem I'm having is: Do I pick the more expensive school because it is in my desired location or do I take the significantly cheaper option and simply forget about Chicago?

Right now I'm leaning towards State because of the competition and saturation in Chicago, but living there is just so damn appealing to me.

I think the answer to your question lies in the realization that you'll be giving up Chicago by choosing State.

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XxSpyKEx
Posts: 1741
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:48 am

Re: DePaul ($$) v. Sparty ($$$)

Postby XxSpyKEx » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:09 am

independentgeorge wrote:The " 'rents " = Parents.

State tuition is slightly less than 35k. Keeping the scholarship means out of pocket tuition of 30k (or 10k per year).

State is being considered because I'm fine with living in MI; it's just not my first choice.

The problem I'm having is: Do I pick the more expensive school because it is in my desired location or do I take the significantly cheaper option and simply forget about Chicago?

Right now I'm leaning towards State because of the competition and saturation in Chicago, but living there is just so damn appealing to me.


Honestly, when you factor in the fact that your parents are covering a large part of your law school expenses, neither is too bad of a deal. Living in Chicago is really appealing to a lot of people. That's the problem. But, unfortunately, your odds of finding any paying legal job right now are probably a lot better in Michigan because there aren't people from all over the place, and from higher ranked schools, trying to end up in Michigan like they are in Chicago (e.g. there are 6 law schools in the chicagoland area alone, and that doesn’t include major players such as UIUC, ND, WUSTL, etc)… Patrickd139’s got it right, though, forget about working in Chicago at graduation if you choose State.




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