BigLaw: Fordham>Brooklyn>Cardozo>U Wash.>Seton>Mason

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bernie shmegma
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Re: BigLaw: Fordham>Brooklyn>Cardozo>U Wash.>Seton>Mason

Postby bernie shmegma » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:24 am

romothesavior wrote:
bernie shmegma wrote:Not Vanderbilt or UCLA over Fordham for NY big law though...


I don't think this is as sure of a thing as you make it sound, especially in looking at Vandy vs. Fordham.

bernie shmegma wrote:I wonder if schools like Vanderbilt, UCLA, Texas, Wash U do as well in DC as Fordcanadianbacon.

THIS JUST IN: Fordcapicola to replace Cornell in T14 by 2016.


And I don't think Fordham as strong in D.C. as you seem to imply, and certainly not as strong as Vanderbilt, WUSTL, or UCLA. Vanderbilt has traditionally been very strong in D.C. and WUSTL is really making serious inroads there (see: new partnership with the Brookings Institute and expanded clinic opportunities). Dunno as much about UCLA, but I do know they have surprisingly good reach for a CA school, and I would imagine that would extend to D.C. as well.

Around 90% of Fordham students stay in NYC, according to a post by OperaSoprano (a mod who attends there) in a previous thread. Unless she was mistaken or things have changed, I'll take her word for it. I think Fordham is a great school and it should be ranked higher, but I don't think it necessarily has a lot of portability. We often forget how important "feeder markets" can be to boosting a school's employment numbers, and as a result, their ranking. I'm far more impressed by the portability of schools like Vanderbilt, Michigan, WUSTL, etc. (which are not near any major markets) than I am by Fordham, which gives its students immediate access to the legal network of NYC. Bottom line: Just because Fordham has employment numbers which outperform its rank does not mean it has portability that outperforms its rank. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but that's certainly what I've gathered from my research on Fordham, and one of the primary reasons I did not apply there).

Edit: Not only did OS cite that statistic in a previous thread, but she did so in the post right above me! :D Apparently I wasn't misquoting you.


It would be interesting to see how many of the 10% that don't stay in NYC go to DC. Then it would be interesting to actually compare that to Vandy, WashU, UCLA instead of talking about this "portability," which may be measured little by these two cities. In my opinion for NYC after T14, if that, its Fordham over the 15-30 (even up on costs). I just want to know if Fordham is actually more portable to DC at least then people think it is or want to believe it is over these other higher "ranked" schools.

Just because Vandy "has been traditionally very strong in DC" and Wash U is making "inroads" does not necessarily mean that Fordham isn't stronger or as strong. I'm not saying these other schools aren't more portable. I mean they have to be right? Which is another thing to be weary of, Fordham students have no reason to go anywhere else. Then past DC, they really have no reason to go anywhere else. Maybe you get a tiny spot in SF or FL or Boston, but a VAST majority do not DESIRE anywhere other than NYC. How many Fordham students are saying "Well, I'm gonna go grab me some cowboy boots head me on to Texas" NO ONE! Obviously Fordham doesn't SEEM "portable."

timertimer61
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Re: BigLaw: Fordham>Brooklyn>Cardozo>U Wash.>Seton>Mason

Postby timertimer61 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:15 pm

fordham's stats are pretty impressive, compared to BLS and cardozo....

aPosseAdEsse
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Re: BigLaw: Fordham>Brooklyn>Cardozo>U Wash.>Seton>Mason

Postby aPosseAdEsse » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:56 am

No comments yet about Seton Hall or Mason?

At first, I was surprised at both how well Seton Hall Law did and how poorly Mason Law did. But the more I've researched, the more it makes sense.

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bernie shmegma
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Re: BigLaw: Fordham>Brooklyn>Cardozo>U Wash.>Seton>Mason

Postby bernie shmegma » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:39 am

aPosseAdEsse wrote:No comments yet about Seton Hall or Mason?

At first, I was surprised at both how well Seton Hall Law did and how poorly Mason Law did. But the more I've researched, the more it makes sense.


Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall, Cardozo, BLS. I know you're retired and did so much already, but that would bring more interest to the thread I believe. I happen to have known Seton Hall was stronger than TLS thinks it is, so it didn't shock me. Actually I was thinking, only 90 people are employed in NJ at NLJ250 firms? Fordham is over 1/3 of that and SHU is a Jersey school. How few NLJ250 firms are there in NJ?

keg411
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Re: BigLaw: Fordham>Brooklyn>Cardozo>U Wash.>Seton>Mason

Postby keg411 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:28 am

bernie shmegma wrote:
aPosseAdEsse wrote:No comments yet about Seton Hall or Mason?

At first, I was surprised at both how well Seton Hall Law did and how poorly Mason Law did. But the more I've researched, the more it makes sense.


Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall, Cardozo, BLS. I know you're retired and did so much already, but that would bring more interest to the thread I believe. I happen to have known Seton Hall was stronger than TLS thinks it is, so it didn't shock me. Actually I was thinking, only 90 people are employed in NJ at NLJ250 firms? Fordham is over 1/3 of that and SHU is a Jersey school. How few NLJ250 firms are there in NJ?


--LinkRemoved--

30 NALP firms in NJ.

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jcl2
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Re: BigLaw: Fordham>Brooklyn>Cardozo>U Wash.>Seton>Mason

Postby jcl2 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:28 pm

Why didn't you include SF/Palo Alto and LA? Those are bigger legal markets than NJ, and UW would look much, much better if you included those. UW's class size is also considerable smaller than all but George Mason on that list.

aPosseAdEsse
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Re: BigLaw: Fordham>Brooklyn>Cardozo>U Wash.>Seton>Mason

Postby aPosseAdEsse » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:09 am

jcl2 wrote:Why didn't you include SF/Palo Alto and LA? Those are bigger legal markets than NJ, and UW would look much, much better if you included those. UW's class size is also considerable smaller than all but George Mason on that list.


I included the markets in which the schools I was comparing are based. This does create an East Coast & class size/age of school bias that heavily favors Fordham, and disadvantages UW, which I noted in my original post.

I agree, UW likely does better for big law than these raw numbers suggest.

DCLawGW
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Re: BigLaw: Fordham>Brooklyn>Cardozo>U Wash.>Seton>Mason

Postby DCLawGW » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:59 pm

I think the big thing this survey suffers from is the fact that not all law school class sizes are the same. Comparing Fordham and Mason without accounting for the fact that Fordham has nearly double the amount of students than Mason (476 vs. 249) doesn't provide for an accurate analysis.




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