Iowa at Sticker...

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Should I be worried about paying sticker at Iowa?

Yes, you will most likely end up with some 45k/year job and barely scraping by...
16
64%
No, you will be fine and you shouldn't worry about the debt because Iowa is a great school
4
16%
Some other opinion (please explain!)
5
20%
 
Total votes: 25

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traehekat
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Iowa at Sticker...

Postby traehekat » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:04 pm

Alright so, I understand plenty of students pay sticker price for a legal education, and the vast majority of them do so at a lower ranked school than Iowa. Although I know Iowa is a good school, and has been for some time, I am having trouble, "pulling the trigger." Do all students who pay sticker outside of T20 or T14 end up miserable and crushed by their debt?

I'd love to hear some opinions of those out there who are maybe attending a school in the T50 to T20 range and who are paying the full price of tuition. How do you feel? What are your experiences with those at your school who may have graduated and were in a similar position? I'm wondering because the Iowa student panel was comprised of mostly scholarship recipients, so naturally they were all pretty cheery about their future financial situation.

If this sounds like a rambling, panic-induced post, I assure you... it is.

spinecho202
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby spinecho202 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:19 pm

I was in this same exact position after my ugrad. I went on to work in business, while many of my friends went on to law school. Out of like 5 or 6 people I know that went to school, currently 2 are more successful than me w/ big law gigs, then the other 3 literally went unemployed or they are scraping by with 100k loans and a 45k gov't job. (all top 25 schools)

It all depends if you want to take the risk, if you want big law (or bigger law), say a good firm in des moines, you have to do well. Otherwise look at your other employment opportunities, its a risk. I still wonder if I should have gone to iowa...but at this point, im glad I didn't. Honestly, people say this on this board all the time, but its true. For the vast majority of law students, anyone really outside the top 20% in their class, you prospects are not good in this economy unless you get into a T14.

Granted, things may improve, but it just really depends on your other options and what else you would want to pursue.
Last edited by spinecho202 on Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby D. H2Oman » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:22 pm

What are your other options, bro. Lay them out on table for us.

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BigA
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby BigA » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:23 pm

traehekat wrote:Alright so, I understand plenty of students pay sticker price for a legal education, and the vast majority of them do so at a lower ranked school than Iowa. Although I know Iowa is a good school, and has been for some time, I am having trouble, "pulling the trigger." Do all students who pay sticker outside of T20 or T14 end up miserable and crushed by their debt?

I'd love to hear some opinions of those out there who are maybe attending a school in the T50 to T20 range and who are paying the full price of tuition. How do you feel? What are your experiences with those at your school who may have graduated and were in a similar position? I'm wondering because the Iowa student panel was comprised of mostly scholarship recipients, so naturally they were all pretty cheery about their future financial situation.

If this sounds like a rambling, panic-induced post, I assure you... it is.


I'm guessing you are talking about out of state sticker price. If it's in in state, I'd say go for it

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webbylu87
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby webbylu87 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:31 pm

I'm interested in hearing what people think on this being in a similar situation. (I'm Iowa in-state vs. Illinois OOS with $10k/year) I was also pretty disappointed in the Iowa students panel.

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traehekat
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby traehekat » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:46 pm

D. H2Oman wrote:What are your other options, bro. Lay them out on table for us.


OSU w/ $25,500
Loyola Chicago w/ $60,000
Wake Forest @ sticker
Colorado @ sticker

Out of state for Iowa, OSU, and Colorado. Residency can be achieved by 2L for all three. I am trying to decide if Iowa is worth about $25,000 more than OSU. OSU will be about $100,000 in loans, Iowa will be about $130,000. Iowa seems to give me a chance at more markets than OSU does, but I could be wrong. Loyola would end up being about as much as OSU if I lived in Chicago for all three years (but I do have the option of living at home and commuting... I don't think I really want to do that, though).

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BigA
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby BigA » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:57 pm

traehekat wrote:
D. H2Oman wrote:Out of state for Iowa, OSU, and Colorado. Residency can be achieved by 2L for all three.


I'd like to know how you will get in-state at Iowa second year. I've heard it's anything but automatic.

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traehekat
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby traehekat » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:05 pm

BigA wrote:
traehekat wrote:
D. H2Oman wrote:Out of state for Iowa, OSU, and Colorado. Residency can be achieved by 2L for all three.


I'd like to know how you will get in-state at Iowa second year. I've heard it's anything but automatic.


From what I have heard from admissions and current students, all you need to do to obtain resident status is nab an RA position. Everyone says this is very easy to do and you literally have to try to NOT get an RA position if you are an out of state student. Also, I think priority is given to out of state students for these positions, so that is a little icing on the cake I guess.

09042014
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby 09042014 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:11 pm

The real question is did you top out on your lsat score? Is there any room for improvement?

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traehekat
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby traehekat » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:49 pm

Desert Fox wrote:The real question is did you top out on your lsat score? Is there any room for improvement?


Eh, debatable, but I have already taken it three times. I had a cancel in June, 158 in September, 164 in December. Leading up to December I was hitting some 171s mixed into probably an average of 167. So did I reach my maximum potential? I don't think so. Is taking the LSAT again an option? Again, I don't think so.

Either way, regardless of where I end up I am just going to end up top 5% and transfer to HYSCCN. Right guys? RIGHT?!

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ggocat
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby ggocat » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:51 pm

I considered Iowa at sticker when I was deciding on schools three years ago. The economy was much better than it is now, but there was no such thing as IBR. I ended up choosing a lower ranked school (Mercer) with a scholarship, and I am very grateful.

Although IBR will make repayment of your loans significantly less burdensome, I did not think employment prospects from Iowa were good enough to justify the debt (compared to my other options). For example, although NLJ 250 law firm and federal clerkship placement was more than twice as much at Iowa, the real number difference was minimal. In other words, I did not think the difference between 7% placement and 15% placement was significant.

With your numbers, you could probably get a full ride from a low first tier or second tier school. I think that would likely be a better option than Iowa at sticker. (But of course, you'd have to wait another year and apply again). That being said, given your current options, I guess Iowa is still a better option than OSU and Loyola Chicago if the cost difference is only $25K. In a better economy, OSU actually had better biglaw placement than Iowa, but Ohio is a saturated market with TEN law schools.

This is a good article for anyone considering a non-national law school: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1
Last edited by ggocat on Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby 09042014 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:57 pm

traehekat wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:The real question is did you top out on your lsat score? Is there any room for improvement?


Eh, debatable, but I have already taken it three times. I had a cancel in June, 158 in September, 164 in December. Leading up to December I was hitting some 171s mixed into probably an average of 167. So did I reach my maximum potential? I don't think so. Is taking the LSAT again an option? Again, I don't think so.

Either way, regardless of where I end up I am just going to end up top 5% and transfer to HYSCCN. Right guys? RIGHT?!


I'd make it your personal mission to find out the placement difference between OSU and Iowa.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:10 pm

If you are able to rank in the top 5% & make law review at the University of Iowa College of Law, then you may not want to transfer to a top 6 law school. But it is not easy to achieve either at Iowa, especially in your situation or you would already be a scholarship recipient.

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traehekat
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby traehekat » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:01 pm

ggocat wrote:I considered Iowa at sticker when I was deciding on schools three years ago. The economy was much better than it is now, but there was no such thing as IBR. I ended up choosing a lower ranked school (Mercer) with a scholarship, and I am very grateful.

Although IBR will make repayment of your loans significantly less burdensome, I did not think employment prospects from Iowa were good enough to justify the debt (compared to my other options). For example, although NLJ 250 law firm and federal clerkship placement was more than twice as much at Iowa, the real number difference was minimal. In other words, I did not think the difference between 7% placement and 15% placement was significant.

With your numbers, you could probably get a full ride from a low first tier or second tier school. I think that would likely be a better option than Iowa at sticker. (But of course, you'd have to wait another year and apply again). That being said, given your current options, I guess Iowa is still a better option than OSU and Loyola Chicago if the cost difference is only $25K. In a better economy, OSU actually had better biglaw placement than Iowa, but Ohio is a saturated market with TEN law schools. This is a good article for anyone considering a non-national law school: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... &hbxlogin=


Thanks that is a lot of good information, and I never saw that article.

Desert Fox wrote:I'd make it your personal mission to find out the placement difference between OSU and Iowa.


Well, I've taken a look at a lot of the larger firms in Chicago to see how many Iowa graduates there are versus OSU graduates, and the scale is considerably in Iowa's favor on that front (but I'm not sure how much of the story that really tells). OSU, of course, does very well in the Columbus, Cincinnati, and Cleveland markets. Iowa placed, overall, 19.8% of it's graduates in NLJ 250 firms while OSU placed 16.6% (not a huge difference, but again, in Iowa's favor). Iowa also ranked 19 on that Vault 100 survey of most employable graduates.

I just can't tell if all the seeming benefits to Iowa over OSU are substantial, and for that matter, worth an extra $25,000.

charlesjd
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby charlesjd » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:04 pm

It came down to Iowa vs. Case (10k a year). Dean Byrd told me the tuition will continue to rise due to state funding (like most other state schools). Not worth it to me. Only schools worth sticker to me are Vandy and some of the T14 (not cornell, 50k tuition soon = LOL WUT?).

So as of now I am going to Case and really happy about it and might get more money from my current school for merit and from case. States schools = crazy increases in tuition. UIUC, IU, Iowa were all top choices until I saw the tuition increases. When it comes to BigLaw, Jones Day loves case western and has branches everywhere. Understand I do have connections, but even without, I think I would still chose Case. I do not even want to practice BigLaw, I am going into in-house in a corporation.

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JTX
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby JTX » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:08 pm

traehekat wrote:
D. H2Oman wrote:What are your other options, bro. Lay them out on table for us.


OSU w/ $25,500
Loyola Chicago w/ $60,000
Wake Forest @ sticker
Colorado @ sticker

Out of state for Iowa, OSU, and Colorado. Residency can be achieved by 2L for all three. I am trying to decide if Iowa is worth about $25,000 more than OSU. OSU will be about $100,000 in loans, Iowa will be about $130,000. Iowa seems to give me a chance at more markets than OSU does, but I could be wrong. Loyola would end up being about as much as OSU if I lived in Chicago for all three years (but I do have the option of living at home and commuting... I don't think I really want to do that, though).


my advice: withdraw from Colorado.

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creamedcats
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby creamedcats » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:11 pm

Obviously any decision involving that much debt is one you need to worry about. Given the fairly small cost differential between OSU and Iowa I would lean towards Iowa unless you have a particular inclination to Ohio. Iowa places well in a number of markets while OSU is very 'North Central' centric, leaning heavily on Ohio. It is the best placer in Ohio but has to compete with Case, Cinci, Marshall, etc. in their local markets.

Ask Iowa for money. Ask OSU for more money. Withdraw from Colorado and Wake Forest.

charlesjd
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby charlesjd » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:13 pm

traehekat wrote:
ggocat wrote:Vault 100 survey of most employable graduates.


Hey, can you link me?

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traehekat
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby traehekat » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:20 pm

charlesjd wrote:
traehekat wrote:
ggocat wrote:Vault 100 survey of most employable graduates.


Hey, can you link me?


http://www.vault.com/wps/portal/usa/education/law-ranking?programtype=2954

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Jerome
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby Jerome » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:21 pm

jtxcounitah wrote:
traehekat wrote:
D. H2Oman wrote:What are your other options, bro. Lay them out on table for us.


OSU w/ $25,500
Loyola Chicago w/ $60,000
Wake Forest @ sticker
Colorado @ sticker

Out of state for Iowa, OSU, and Colorado. Residency can be achieved by 2L for all three. I am trying to decide if Iowa is worth about $25,000 more than OSU. OSU will be about $100,000 in loans, Iowa will be about $130,000. Iowa seems to give me a chance at more markets than OSU does, but I could be wrong. Loyola would end up being about as much as OSU if I lived in Chicago for all three years (but I do have the option of living at home and commuting... I don't think I really want to do that, though).


my advice: withdraw from Colorado.

+1.

charlesjd
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby charlesjd » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:22 pm

traehekat wrote:
charlesjd wrote:
traehekat wrote:
ggocat wrote:Vault 100 survey of most employable graduates.


Hey, can you link me?


http://www.vault.com/wps/portal/usa/education/law-ranking?programtype=2954


Thank you.

spinecho202
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby spinecho202 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:38 pm

what would your other options be if you didn't go to law school? or is that something you've always wanted to do? I think that is the real question here...if you do, I'd just go to Iowa, that'd open both some chicago markets and twin cities

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traehekat
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby traehekat » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:19 pm

spinecho202 wrote:what would your other options be if you didn't go to law school? or is that something you've always wanted to do? I think that is the real question here...if you do, I'd just go to Iowa, that'd open both some chicago markets and twin cities


I really didn't know what I wanted to do until I took a business law class as a freshman at a community college (after transferring from another university with a 1.92 GPA). I ended up loving the class and all the little nuances and questions surrounding the law, so I took another class the next semester. Loved it. Began thinking my career may be well situated in law. Transferred to my current institution and I have taken a Constitutional law class and an introduction to law class - loved both of them. After further research into what law school is like and what different legal jobs are like (although I am aware the education you receive in law school doesn't really coincide with what you will do as a practicing attorney), I have kind of just figured my brain/personality is shaped in a manner that suits me well for law - and I actually like it (from my limited experience)!

So, long story short, I would like a life in the law. I'm not positive what type of law I would like to do, so I would like to go to a school that gives me a decent chance at a lot of different areas of law (including working in a large firm).

spinecho202
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Re: Iowa at Sticker...

Postby spinecho202 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:04 pm

I think you know what to do then. You can always take a year off and apply next cycle and wait for more $$, and possibly for the economy to improve. Otherwise I say go for it, and just try to be towards the top of your class. Of my friends, the realistic margin for Iowa was that they needed to be in top 15% (only like top 5% got biglaw, but top 15-20% got into some decent midlaw firms).




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