Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

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patrickd139
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Re: Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:42 pm

RVP11 wrote:
Fark-o-vision wrote:As for whoever said Portland isn't "liberal" and that you'll find all types there, I think that much defines liberal. Conservative towns are conservative, period.


Ah yes. :roll:

"I see diversity in liberalism, but only homogeneity in conservatism" = "I can't relate to people who are not like me so I see them as all the same"

QFT.

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racie23
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Re: Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

Postby racie23 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:14 pm

So I have decided not to go to SCU because I refuse to pay sticker anywhere and I cannot guarantee that I will be able to stay in the top 25%. I had narrowed it down to L&C (cheapest/good location) and UofA (higher ranked, indigenous programs, more portable degree) but then Brooklyn increased my Scholarship offer so it would now cost me only about $2k more a year than UofA ($10k more than L&C).

I am really excited by the idea of living in NY, I have never lived on the East Coast and would really like to at some point in my life, but I am concerned that Brooklyn Law might be too large and competitive; BK's class size is over 400, L&C is under 200 and UA is only 155. I like the idea of a supportive, community environment and am suspicious that BK would not offer a very "nurturing" community. On the other hand, BK is highly ranked for clinical programs and public interest and has incredible access to international organizations and public interest groups due to location. I imagine I would be more open to working in NY than AZ or OR but the COL is sooo high! Is it worth it to go to such a big school or should I go to UofA or L&C, save $, and do my summer intern/extern/jobs in NY/DC/SF?

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Re: Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

Postby creamedcats » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:29 pm

Easy choice, Arizona. Both of these schools do well in regional PI based on the regional/sector placements. Go with the T1. Be wary of specialty law programs; you'll have to really bust your ass to get a good job in a tiny field like that, statistically speaking (I know nothing about indigenous law).

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racie23
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Re: Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

Postby racie23 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:39 pm

creamedcats wrote:Easy choice, Arizona. Both of these schools do well in regional PI based on the regional/sector placements. Go with the T1. Be wary of specialty law programs; you'll have to really bust your ass to get a good job in a tiny field like that, statistically speaking (I know nothing about indigenous law).



Would you stand by that "easy choice" even if I am positive that I do not want to work in AZ after law school and even in the summers?

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Re: Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

Postby creamedcats » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:03 am

racie23 wrote:
creamedcats wrote:Easy choice, Arizona. Both of these schools do well in regional PI based on the regional/sector placements. Go with the T1. Be wary of specialty law programs; you'll have to really bust your ass to get a good job in a tiny field like that, statistically speaking (I know nothing about indigenous law).



Would you stand by that "easy choice" even if I am positive that I do not want to work in AZ after law school and even in the summers?


Well, I don't see a reason to go to Brooklyn if you want to work in the Bay Area, unless there's a large Bay Area contingent there? And your own analysis says you consider it the third best educationally, so...I'd say that one is out, barring something you aren't mentioning. If you're sure you won't consider working in NYC, at least for awhile, I would rule them out.

If you really don't want to be in Arizona at ALL, then of course, don't go there - don't let the rankings decide that for you. I wasn't really taking into account how strongly you didn't want to be in Arizona. I guess Lewis and Clark is a good alternative if you want a change of scenery, it's the cheapest, and it falls in the middle of the road otherwise, but still gives you a chance to study indigenous law, right?

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racie23
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Re: Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

Postby racie23 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:55 pm

creamedcats wrote:
racie23 wrote:
creamedcats wrote:Easy choice, Arizona. Both of these schools do well in regional PI based on the regional/sector placements. Go with the T1. Be wary of specialty law programs; you'll have to really bust your ass to get a good job in a tiny field like that, statistically speaking (I know nothing about indigenous law).



Would you stand by that "easy choice" even if I am positive that I do not want to work in AZ after law school and even in the summers?


Well, I don't see a reason to go to Brooklyn if you want to work in the Bay Area, unless there's a large Bay Area contingent there? And your own analysis says you consider it the third best educationally, so...I'd say that one is out, barring something you aren't mentioning. If you're sure you won't consider working in NYC, at least for awhile, I would rule them out.

If you really don't want to be in Arizona at ALL, then of course, don't go there - don't let the rankings decide that for you. I wasn't really taking into account how strongly you didn't want to be in Arizona. I guess Lewis and Clark is a good alternative if you want a change of scenery, it's the cheapest, and it falls in the middle of the road otherwise, but still gives you a chance to study indigenous law, right?


Thanks for the advice. I am definitely intrigued by the East Coast and think that I would be willing to live there for a few years following law school. I definitely think that UofA would be a cheaper and easier environment than Brooklyn but I might find it stifling. L&C on the other hand has the least emphasis on international human rights law of the three schools but still is the cheapest and definitely falls in the middle as far as class size and location. Ugh what to do.....

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Re: Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

Postby cLams » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:03 pm

racie23 wrote:
creamedcats wrote:
racie23 wrote:
creamedcats wrote:Easy choice, Arizona. Both of these schools do well in regional PI based on the regional/sector placements. Go with the T1. Be wary of specialty law programs; you'll have to really bust your ass to get a good job in a tiny field like that, statistically speaking (I know nothing about indigenous law).



Would you stand by that "easy choice" even if I am positive that I do not want to work in AZ after law school and even in the summers?


Well, I don't see a reason to go to Brooklyn if you want to work in the Bay Area, unless there's a large Bay Area contingent there? And your own analysis says you consider it the third best educationally, so...I'd say that one is out, barring something you aren't mentioning. If you're sure you won't consider working in NYC, at least for awhile, I would rule them out.

If you really don't want to be in Arizona at ALL, then of course, don't go there - don't let the rankings decide that for you. I wasn't really taking into account how strongly you didn't want to be in Arizona. I guess Lewis and Clark is a good alternative if you want a change of scenery, it's the cheapest, and it falls in the middle of the road otherwise, but still gives you a chance to study indigenous law, right?


Thanks for the advice. I am definitely intrigued by the East Coast and think that I would be willing to live there for a few years following law school. I definitely think that UofA would be a cheaper and easier environment than Brooklyn but I might find it stifling. L&C on the other hand has the least emphasis on international human rights law of the three schools but still is the cheapest and definitely falls in the middle as far as class size and location. Ugh what to do.....


Hi again!! :D Just wanted to fill you in about the ASD that I attended this weekend at UofA because it sounds like we have similar interests. To put it frankly, I loved it! If you weren't against living in Arizona for a couple years if you couldn't find right away in CA, I would say go there for sure. I talked to a couple students in who were involved with human rights projects and the IPLP, and it sounds like an amazing opportunity. There have been students who have had amazing internships around the globe during their 1L summer, and there is plenty of immigration/human rights opportunities being so close to the border and near several indigenous nations. I left feeling really pumped and I can't wait to start. If you could suck up being in AZ for a few years, come to UA!!!

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racie23
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Re: Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

Postby racie23 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:18 pm

Hi!! glad to hear you enjoyed it! That was the same way I felt after the previous admit students day at UA. They really make you believe that you can succeed and they will make sure you do! Makes you feel all cozy inside lol.

What were your perceptions of Tucson itself as a place to live for 3 years? It is location that is killing me right now! NY and Portland are so much more riveting than Tucson but I want to make sure I get the most for my $ on an educational and employment standpoint.

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Re: Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

Postby patrickd139 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:39 pm

racie23 wrote:Hi!! glad to hear you enjoyed it! That was the same way I felt after the previous admit students day at UA. They really make you believe that you can succeed and they will make sure you do! Makes you feel all cozy inside lol.

What were your perceptions of Tucson itself as a place to live for 3 years? It is location that is killing me right now! NY and Portland are so much more riveting than Tucson but I want to make sure I get the most for my $ on an educational and employment standpoint.

If you want the most for your money, from an educational and employment standpoint, go to SCU. It will get you a job where you want to live. The other schools will not. Law school is not about living somewhere cool for a few years; it's a professional school, geared toward getting you a job.

Second place, UA, because it's at least tangentially close to your target market.

Third place, Brooklyn, because it somehow stays in business despite the tough NY legal market, which makes me think their graduates do, in fact, get jobs somewhere.

Bullet point: Don't go to a regional law school that's not in the region in which you want to practice.

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racie23
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Re: Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

Postby racie23 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:49 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
racie23 wrote:Hi!! glad to hear you enjoyed it! That was the same way I felt after the previous admit students day at UA. They really make you believe that you can succeed and they will make sure you do! Makes you feel all cozy inside lol.

What were your perceptions of Tucson itself as a place to live for 3 years? It is location that is killing me right now! NY and Portland are so much more riveting than Tucson but I want to make sure I get the most for my $ on an educational and employment standpoint.

If you want the most for your money, from an educational and employment standpoint, go to SCU. It will get you a job where you want to live. The other schools will not. Law school is not about living somewhere cool for a few years; it's a professional school, geared toward getting you a job.

Second place, UA, because it's at least tangentially close to your target market.

Third place, Brooklyn, because it somehow stays in business despite the tough NY legal market, which makes me think their graduates do, in fact, get jobs somewhere.

Bullet point: Don't go to a regional law school that's not in the region in which you want to practice.


I am not willing to pay sticker at SCU, or any other school that I have been accepted to for that matter. Although I would like to believe that I can maintain a place in the top 25% of my class there is no way I can guarantee it and therefore I cannot go to SCU with the knowledge that I may be paying sticker after the first year.

Since my target market is SF or the East Coast, I am strongly considering Brooklyn. What about L&C, you think that I should nix it completely even though it is my cheapest option and does employ in the bay area?

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Re: Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

Postby cLams » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:57 pm

racie23 wrote:Hi!! glad to hear you enjoyed it! That was the same way I felt after the previous admit students day at UA. They really make you believe that you can succeed and they will make sure you do! Makes you feel all cozy inside lol.

What were your perceptions of Tucson itself as a place to live for 3 years? It is location that is killing me right now! NY and Portland are so much more riveting than Tucson but I want to make sure I get the most for my $ on an educational and employment standpoint.


Tucson has definitely grown on me. I don't see myself living there after graduation, but I think it will be a nice place to live for a few years. I fought Tucson for quite a while. I have family down there, and visited a lot as a kid. It didn't start growing on me until a few years ago. It's not the "coolest" city, but there are a lot of cool things about it. For one, outdoor sports/activities are amazing in Tucson. As for a social scene, it seems like there is a lot for everyone. There is a decent bar scene, some interesting music clubs, and there is definitely a hippy scene. Compared to Portland and NY, no its not the coolest. Not much can compare to either city in my opinion. If enjoyment of location is your largest priority, then UofA is probably not for you. However, I can say that Tucson doesn't suck as much as everyone thinks it does, and it has a lot of charm as you get to know it a bit more.

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Re: Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:01 pm

racie23 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
racie23 wrote:Hi!! glad to hear you enjoyed it! That was the same way I felt after the previous admit students day at UA. They really make you believe that you can succeed and they will make sure you do! Makes you feel all cozy inside lol.

What were your perceptions of Tucson itself as a place to live for 3 years? It is location that is killing me right now! NY and Portland are so much more riveting than Tucson but I want to make sure I get the most for my $ on an educational and employment standpoint.

If you want the most for your money, from an educational and employment standpoint, go to SCU. It will get you a job where you want to live. The other schools will not. Law school is not about living somewhere cool for a few years; it's a professional school, geared toward getting you a job.

Second place, UA, because it's at least tangentially close to your target market.

Third place, Brooklyn, because it somehow stays in business despite the tough NY legal market, which makes me think their graduates do, in fact, get jobs somewhere.

Bullet point: Don't go to a regional law school that's not in the region in which you want to practice.


I am not willing to pay sticker at SCU, or any other school that I have been accepted to for that matter. Although I would like to believe that I can maintain a place in the top 25% of my class there is no way I can guarantee it and therefore I cannot go to SCU with the knowledge that I may be paying sticker after the first year.

Since my target market is SF or the East Coast, I am strongly considering Brooklyn. What about L&C, you think that I should nix it completely even though it is my cheapest option and does employ in the bay area?


I have a similar choice as you do, but that is slightly irrelevant to my post here.

Why do you refuse to pay sticker? If it is a matter of principle then I think it best to put your principles aside in this case and do what is best for your career and your finances. If it is a matter of cost then I suggest you look at how large the price difference is. You say that BLS will cost you $59k/year after your scholarship. SCU at sticker is $61k/year. To me, $6k over 3 years does not seem to be that big of a difference considering the 6 digit total sum you are paying. If you want to work in CA, the prevailing wisdom of this board says that outside of the top schools and especially in T2 the school you choose is highly unlikely to place you out of its region.

EDIT: I realize now you said SF or East Coast. My post does not advocate for one or the other, but merely is pointing out that you should not summarily reject a school because you are paying sticker when the cost difference is only $2k/year after scholarships are taken into account.

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Re: Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

Postby racie23 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:13 pm

cLams wrote:
racie23 wrote:Hi!! glad to hear you enjoyed it! That was the same way I felt after the previous admit students day at UA. They really make you believe that you can succeed and they will make sure you do! Makes you feel all cozy inside lol.

What were your perceptions of Tucson itself as a place to live for 3 years? It is location that is killing me right now! NY and Portland are so much more riveting than Tucson but I want to make sure I get the most for my $ on an educational and employment standpoint.


Tucson has definitely grown on me. I don't see myself living there after graduation, but I think it will be a nice place to live for a few years. I fought Tucson for quite a while. I have family down there, and visited a lot as a kid. It didn't start growing on me until a few years ago. It's not the "coolest" city, but there are a lot of cool things about it. For one, outdoor sports/activities are amazing in Tucson. As for a social scene, it seems like there is a lot for everyone. There is a decent bar scene, some interesting music clubs, and there is definitely a hippy scene. Compared to Portland and NY, no its not the coolest. Not much can compare to either city in my opinion. If enjoyment of location is your largest priority, then UofA is probably not for you. However, I can say that Tucson doesn't suck as much as everyone thinks it does, and it has a lot of charm as you get to know it a bit more.


There is something to be said for the fact that especially the first year I am going to be studying so much that it probably won't matter all that much where I am so why spend the $ to do it in NY right?

Clams did you ever happen to find that thread about employment prospects in CA? I looked for it but couldn't find :(

What were your impressions of the other admitted students at the event this past weekend on a whole? I ask because the few that I have met are fairly conservative and sports oriented types. I, of course, think that you need all kinds to make any environment interesting but I was hoping you might have some perspective on the people that might be our classmates since turnout at the previous admit day was pretty low.

Thanks!

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Re: Choosing between 3 schools. Advice? L&C vs. U of A vs. Brkln

Postby racie23 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:31 pm

bk1 wrote:
racie23 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
racie23 wrote:Hi!! glad to hear you enjoyed it! That was the same way I felt after the previous admit students day at UA. They really make you believe that you can succeed and they will make sure you do! Makes you feel all cozy inside lol.

What were your perceptions of Tucson itself as a place to live for 3 years? It is location that is killing me right now! NY and Portland are so much more riveting than Tucson but I want to make sure I get the most for my $ on an educational and employment standpoint.

If you want the most for your money, from an educational and employment standpoint, go to SCU. It will get you a job where you want to live. The other schools will not. Law school is not about living somewhere cool for a few years; it's a professional school, geared toward getting you a job.

Second place, UA, because it's at least tangentially close to your target market.

Third place, Brooklyn, because it somehow stays in business despite the tough NY legal market, which makes me think their graduates do, in fact, get jobs somewhere.

Bullet point: Don't go to a regional law school that's not in the region in which you want to practice.


I am not willing to pay sticker at SCU, or any other school that I have been accepted to for that matter. Although I would like to believe that I can maintain a place in the top 25% of my class there is no way I can guarantee it and therefore I cannot go to SCU with the knowledge that I may be paying sticker after the first year.

Since my target market is SF or the East Coast, I am strongly considering Brooklyn. What about L&C, you think that I should nix it completely even though it is my cheapest option and does employ in the bay area?


I have a similar choice as you do, but that is slightly irrelevant to my post here.

Why do you refuse to pay sticker? If it is a matter of principle then I think it best to put your principles aside in this case and do what is best for your career and your finances. If it is a matter of cost then I suggest you look at how large the price difference is. You say that BLS will cost you $59k/year after your scholarship. SCU at sticker is $61k/year. To me, $6k over 3 years does not seem to be that big of a difference considering the 6 digit total sum you are paying. If you want to work in CA, the prevailing wisdom of this board says that outside of the top schools and especially in T2 the school you choose is highly unlikely to place you out of its region.

EDIT: I realize now you said SF or East Coast. My post does not advocate for one or the other, but merely is pointing out that you should not summarily reject a school because you are paying sticker when the cost difference is only $2k/year after scholarships are taken into account.


The reason is financial not just principal. The reason BLS is an option again (I had previously narrowed it down to L&C and UA as my cheapest and highest ranked options) is because they increased my scholarship offer. I aplogize, I should have updated that amount, Brooklyn with the additional aid would now cost me $54k a year which is under $2k a year more than UA. The differential between SCU at sticker and even BLS is $21k over three years. Not to mention between SCU and L&C it is $48k over three years. More than the cost of 1 year at L&C!





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