UH vs Baylor(fully)...

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moonmaster3
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UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby moonmaster3 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:25 pm

What do you guys think? I want to stay in the Houston market, but UH tuition keeps skyrocketing. Although Baylor is a lesser ranked school the thought of graduating debt free is intriguing. Anybody have input? Pros/cons? Thanks

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patrickd139
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby patrickd139 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:38 pm

moonmaster3 wrote:What do you guys think? I want to stay in the Houston market, but UH tuition keeps skyrocketing. Although Baylor is a lesser ranked school the thought of graduating debt free is intriguing. Anybody have input? Pros/cons? Thanks

1) do a quick 'Search Forum' for Baylor (top left corner)
2) read threads
3) put your tuition deposit down at UH
4) ??????
5) Profit!

colemf
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby colemf » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:43 pm

moonmaster3 wrote:What do you guys think? I want to stay in the Houston market, but UH tuition keeps skyrocketing. Although Baylor is a lesser ranked school the thought of graduating debt free is intriguing. Anybody have input? Pros/cons? Thanks


Im in the same position, i can't see myself passing up that much money, but i'm not looking to get into biglaw, it might be worth the money to go to UH if you want a biglaw job.

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kalvano
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby kalvano » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:19 pm

Don't go to Baylor no matter what you want to do.

moonmaster3
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby moonmaster3 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:18 pm

go on..

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Borachio05
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby Borachio05 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:58 pm

Houston > Waco

colemf
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby colemf » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:01 pm

0 debt> 160,000 debt

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Balthy
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby Balthy » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:09 pm

colemf wrote:0 debt> 160,000 debt



Good luck trying to run up that kind of debt at Houston.

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patrickd139
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby patrickd139 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:15 pm

superdingle2000 wrote:
colemf wrote:0 debt> 160,000 debt



Good luck trying to run up that kind of debt at Houston.

If you're out of state, paying full tuition and living a few stories up at the Galleria, it's entirely possible. That said, go to UofH.

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glassglass
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby glassglass » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:42 pm

UH is better, no question. In fact, although the difference in the rankings between UH and Baylor is pretty small, UH really does seem to be significantly better in terms of job prospects. Where do the Baylor grads work? In Houston, it seems like they have to wait as the T14, UT, UH folks get the jobs first. At least that's the impression I've gotten. Also, most things I've read about Baylor on here have made me pretty skeptical of the school. It's a whole lot of work for not very good job prospects. Also, don't those Baylor scholarships come with a GPA stipulation? I know Baylor has a tough curve - another negative.

For me I think the decision would come down to that GPA stipulation. If the scholarship has a GPA stipulation, go to UH. If it doesn't, I'm really not sure. It depends on how much debt you're comfortable with having after law school. Seriously, Houston is better than Baylor in every way - except for the scholarship. Good luck.

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kalvano
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby kalvano » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:33 pm

colemf wrote:0 debt> 160,000 debt



I know the other guy with 4 posts told you everything you wanted to hear about Baylor.

But for this poster's benefit, here's the list I compiled from the other thread.


kalvano wrote:While it's obviously your choice, you need to take a good, hard look at this.

1 ) For every 1 or 2 posters saying Baylor isn't that bad, there are 10 or 12 cautioning you against Baylor. Again, where there is smoke, there is fire.

2 ) It sounds like you want an ADA position. None of the major cities in Texas have a significant Baylor presence in those offices, if they have one at all.

3 ) Baylor admits to overextending scholarships and calculates that they will be able to rescind several.

4 ) When you should be out looking for a job and networking, you will instead be forced to participate in practice trial whether you want to or not.

5 ) You will have to take 36 credit hours more than other JD students.

6 ) You will get less breaks and have to take more exams.

7 ) Waco sucks. It's heavily, heavily religious, and you better hope you don't have a final around a Christian holiday, because you'll be shut out of the library.

8 ) It's the 4th-best law school in the state, behind other schools that dominate the state and their respective cities, so you're job prospects will be second fiddle to each of these schools.

9 ) Baylor has been steadily falling in the rankings and doing nothing to address it.





As I said, it's your choice, but there are an awful lot of negatives that go along with Baylor.

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kalvano
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby kalvano » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:34 pm

glassglass wrote:UH is better, no question. In fact, although the difference in the rankings between UH and Baylor is pretty small, UH really does seem to be significantly better in terms of job prospects. Where do the Baylor grads work? In Houston, it seems like they have to wait as the T14, UT, UH folks get the jobs first. At least that's the impression I've gotten. Also, most things I've read about Baylor on here have made me pretty skeptical of the school. It's a whole lot of work for not very good job prospects. Also, don't those Baylor scholarships come with a GPA stipulation? I know Baylor has a tough curve - another negative.

For me I think the decision would come down to that GPA stipulation. If the scholarship has a GPA stipulation, go to UH. If it doesn't, I'm really not sure. It depends on how much debt you're comfortable with having after law school. Seriously, Houston is better than Baylor in every way - except for the scholarship. Good luck.



I believe all Baylor full rides come with a GPA stip.

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patrickd139
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:56 am

kalvano wrote:
glassglass wrote:UH is better, no question. In fact, although the difference in the rankings between UH and Baylor is pretty small, UH really does seem to be significantly better in terms of job prospects. Where do the Baylor grads work? In Houston, it seems like they have to wait as the T14, UT, UH folks get the jobs first. At least that's the impression I've gotten. Also, most things I've read about Baylor on here have made me pretty skeptical of the school. It's a whole lot of work for not very good job prospects. Also, don't those Baylor scholarships come with a GPA stipulation? I know Baylor has a tough curve - another negative.

For me I think the decision would come down to that GPA stipulation. If the scholarship has a GPA stipulation, go to UH. If it doesn't, I'm really not sure. It depends on how much debt you're comfortable with having after law school. Seriously, Houston is better than Baylor in every way - except for the scholarship. Good luck.



I believe all Baylor full rides come with a GPA stip.

Correct. 2.65 last year, in fact. Pretty rough when you consider the school boasts a sub-3.0 median GPA.

colemf
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby colemf » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:19 am

Its a 2.5 this year.

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dut99002
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby dut99002 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:48 pm

I've been accepted at UH (no scholarship money as of yet) and Baylor (with a full-ride). I live and work in Dallas and would like to come back upon graduation. I'm visiting Baylor this week and right now am leaning towards them due to the scholarship (yes, it's contingent upon a 2.5 or 2.6 GPA) and because I figure that if I work hard enough I'll be able to have less debt and job opportunities in Dallas upon graduation. It's a calculated risk though.

Here's what I know thus far about both schools (and I've learned a lot more about Baylor so far):

By a stroke of luck I got to hang out with 4 fairly recent Baylor law grads a few weeks back. One graduated number 1 in his class, another in the top 10 or so percent and I'm not sure about the other two exactly, but they both were top 25% as I understand it. All four have firm jobs in Dallas and have mixed opinions on the school, but I don't think that any of them regret their decision to attend. The two top guys liked the school better than the other two (who both liked and disliked aspects of the school).

One told me that the 3L practice court was 'amazingly' difficult and that the school is very competitive. Another told me that he got only 4 to 5 hours of sleep per night during the 6 month Practice Court. They also said that some (not all) teachers don't allow laptops for note taking and they want you to do it all by hand. Some (again, not all) teachers also require students to stand and answer questions in class without notes. He said that all of this was tough. However, the one guy of the group who really, really liked the school said that the difficulty he experienced at Baylor prepped him for his firm job today. He works for Vinson & Elkins doing litigation. He told me that in the court room and in other situations he's not always able to have a laptop so learning how to take notes by hand really prepared him. He also maintains that his Baylor experiences put him ahead of his peers during his first few years at the two firms he's worked for (he's had more opportunities and bigger responsibilities at the two large firms he's worked for than his counterparts).

The VE lawyer told me that in his opinion, the top 20 or so percent at Baylor are in a good position to get firm jobs in Texas and that one con of attending Baylor is that if you drop below that 20-25% then you will have to work harder to get jobs. It's definitely a calculated risk, but so is going to law school at almost all of the non-t14 schools as I understand it.

I am acquaintances with a partner at Baker Botts who works a lot in Houston and Dallas and interestingly he believes that Baylor is a better law school than Houston. He said that if I graduate from Baylor in the top 10% or so than I'd be "just fine" and in his mind would compete with the t14 guys to an extent. Obviously, there's a prestige to t14's that Baylor won't have, but a top 10% student from Baylor (or Houston) will have strong opportunities in Dallas, Austin, and Houston. This particular partner graduated from Columbia law.

So, if you're willing to put in a lot of work, have a tougher 3L than most other students and live in Waco you can do just as well from Baylor as you can from Houston. At least that's the idea I'm getting. The Baylor guys I spoke with all agreed that a full-tuition scholly would be a strong selling point for them if they were me. I agree.

The Baylor guys I spoke with who had visited Houston's campus said that they thought it wasn't nice compared to Baylor's, but they didn't have many opinions on Houston anyways purely because they didn't attend. They did mention that none of them were aware of many, if any, Houston law grads in Dallas (I only asked since, like I mentioned before, I'm interested in practicing in Dallas).

The guy who graduated first in his class told me that he didn't know anything about Waco from his three years there, but that was mostly because he spent most of his time either in class, sleeping, or studying. He also told me that Baylor was the ONLY school that accepted him, so that's why he attended. I found that interesting.

Another aspect of Baylor that I've heard from a number of lawyers is that it is known to be a school for litigation, so you may want to take that into account. This reputation of course comes from their Practice Court.

Personally, I wouldn't automatically discount Baylor purely because you've heard that it was challenging. I, too, am worried about the 3L Practice Court, the difficulty of classes, and living in 'boring' Waco, but I'm not going to law school to party and if I can graduate with considerably less debt and similar job prospects due to my own hard work and dedication than I'll go with Baylor. When I sent my applications in a while back Houston was my number one choice and Baylor was an afterthought, especially because of their higher price and seemingly tighter job prospects in firms. I only applied to Baylor because of the fee waiver, in all honesty. I'd love to say that I had t14 or U of Texas as options, but with my LSAT and GPA I'm facing the reality of other schools, all of whom are regional in scope and can only offer better job prospects to the top 25% or more of the graduating class. Because of this, I'm most likely going to try to mitigate the risk by trying to graduate with as little debt as possible.

That's my two cents. Sorry about the length.

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patrickd139
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Re: UH vs Baylor(fully)...

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:56 pm

DUT: OP said he wants to end up in Houston after law school. While you make a compelling argument for Baylor re: Dallas firm jobs, I think U of H is significantly better placed to serve the OP's long-term career goals.




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