Am I being a moron?

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Am I being a moron?

Yes
48
76%
No
15
24%
 
Total votes: 63

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Son of Cicero
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby Son of Cicero » Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:24 pm

LDR isn't THAT hard. People need to suck it up.

According to the rumors, this happens a little too often and is a big reason law school LDRs fail.

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FunkyJD
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby FunkyJD » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:11 pm

OP must really love her man. I don't say that in any implied derogatory way. I'm just being matter-of-fact: She loves her SO pretty bad if she's going to intentionally do something that most other people who are not in her situation would recognize as essentially throwing rocks at the heads of the Career Fates and calling them "a batch of ugly bitches."

La.w school prestige is not always about vanity, and it doesn't always guarantee you a job; but there's a reason why U.Va is t13, and why UGa is #35. It's not a trivial or random difference.

It's a fact that doing well at U.Va is going to give OP options that doing well at UGa won't. If OP and her boyfriend must someday move out-of-state, that may become quickly apparent for her. And if she and her SO want to live in Georgia long term, going to U.Va might give her access to job opportunities down there that a UGa grad might not have a decent shot at. (Like a great clerkship that could benefit her career down the road.) No, it's not about debt for her: It's potentially about sacrificing career prospects for proximity to a person. It's about future earning potential vs. the proximity factor.

In the end, if OP mentally runs the utility analysis, and she determines that proximity to her SO is worth the career risk, who are we to tell her no? In this case, she is fairly risk-taking. That's a hell of a high exponent on her utility curve. But OP must do what is best for OP.

Maybe she goes to UGa, kills it, finishes top 10%, and all of this becomes academic. Maybe.

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TTTennis
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby TTTennis » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:29 pm

FunkyJD wrote:In the end, if OP mentally runs the utility analysis, and she determines that proximity to her SO is worth the career risk, who are we to tell her no? In this case, she is fairly risk-taking. That's a hell of a high exponent on her utility curve. But OP must do what is best for OP.

Maybe she goes to UGa, kills it, finishes top 10%, and all of this becomes academic. Maybe.


There was way too much math and economics in that post for me to comprehend any of it. So, are you basically saying that the OP should go to UGA if she wants to marry her SO? But, it would most likely be career suicide?
Last edited by TTTennis on Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FunkyJD
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby FunkyJD » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:53 pm

TTTennis wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:In the end, if OP mentally runs the utility analysis, and she determines that proximity to her SO is worth the career risk, who are we to tell her no? In this case, she is fairly risk-taking. That's a hell of a high exponent on her utility curve. But OP must do what is best for OP.

Maybe she goes to UGa, kills it, finishes top 10%, and all of this becomes academic. Maybe.


There was way too much math and economics in that post for me to comprehend any of it. So, are basically saying that the OP should go to UGA if she wants to marry her SO? But, it would most likely be career suicide?

Summary of Funky JD's liquored-up prattle:

  • OP will have to decide if the real risk of disadvantaging herself in the job market by choosing UGa over U.Va is worth being closer to her bf.
  • Doing well at U.Ga will not guarantee OP a good job in Georgia. Doing well at U.Va might open up options in Georgia that may otherwise not be available to her, and would benefit her career long-term.
  • Only reason why I mentioned marriage earlier is because if OP chose UGa over U.Va, and ended up breaking up with her SO next year, that feeling would suck. Her return on investment, relationship-wise, better be worth the career risk.

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soullesswonder
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby soullesswonder » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:20 pm

FunkyJD, I think you're projecting your own goals onto the OP here. If she says that prestige doesn't matter and that she just wants to do something meaningful, then all the conventional analysis about Biglaw placement, clerkships, and top-drawer PI like the ACLU becomes a lot less important, and therefore Virginia's advantage in those areas (which is quite pronounced) is not as important.

UGA will travel within the Southeast, especially in TN, SC, and AL, so it's not like OP will be trapped within the state borders. I should also point out that even if OP's relationship did fail, she would still be in closer proximity to her parents and have easier access to PI networking in the Atlanta area.

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FunkyJD
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby FunkyJD » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:30 pm

soullesswonder wrote:FunkyJD, I think you're projecting your own goals onto the OP here. If she says that prestige doesn't matter and that she just wants to do something meaningful, then all the conventional analysis about Biglaw placement, clerkships, and top-drawer PI like the ACLU becomes a lot less important, and therefore Virginia's advantage in those areas (which is quite pronounced) is not as important.

All of this is a valid criticism. I was just giving OP something to consider. If I were in OP's shoes, I would choose U.Va for the reasons I detailed. But that's just a stranger's opinion on the Internets. Like I said, she has to do the math for herself. What I think is important is just one viewpoint; but sure, my answer is biased by my own perspective.

FWIW ... I'm currently a graduate student in public policy. I've watched a lot of idealism die as my classmates struggle to find jobs/jobs that pay more than zero I.TE. So I'm a bit jaded, and biased towards top drawer jobs, PI or not -- factor that bias into my advice.

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soullesswonder
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby soullesswonder » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:48 pm

FunkyJD wrote:
FWIW ... I'm currently a graduate student in public policy. I've watched a lot of idealism die as my classmates struggle to find jobs/jobs that pay more than zero I.TE. So I'm a bit jaded, and biased towards top drawer jobs, PI or not -- factor that bias into my advice.


I completely understand, and believe me, if OP didn't have someone else picking up the tab for law school I would be pulling for UVA, SO or no SO

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flyingpanda
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby flyingpanda » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:50 pm

FunkyJD wrote:
Maybe she goes to UGa, kills it, finishes top 10%, and all of this becomes academic. Maybe.


And maybe she goes to UGa and God forbid, she breaks up with her man, and ends up regretting not going to UVa for the rest of her life. Maybe.

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romothesavior
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:11 pm

aznflyingpanda wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:
Maybe she goes to UGa, kills it, finishes top 10%, and all of this becomes academic. Maybe.


And maybe she goes to UGa and God forbid, she breaks up with her man, and ends up regretting not going to Cooley College of Law for the rest of her life. Maybe.


+2. If you are willing to make this HUGE sacrifice for your SO, he better get you a ring ASAP. I don't see how passing up a T10 law school could be a wise choice unless you are SURE this is the person you want to be with forever.

OP, what are your career goals? If you want to do big law, academia, clerkships, big PI work, etc., then you are committing career suicide going to UGA unless you finish in the top of your class. If your goal is something a little more modest, maybe UGA can be argued for.

I agree with a lot of the other posters; you need to decide just how important this SO is to you. If he ain't permanent material, you need to reassess this situation and consider UVA. If, on the other hand, he is "the one" and you cannot live without him, then go to UGA.

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soullesswonder
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby soullesswonder » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:14 pm

romothesavior wrote:
OP, what are your career goals? If you want to do big law, academia, clerkships, big PI work, etc., then you are committing career suicide going to UGA unless you finish in the top of your class. If your goal is something a little more modest, maybe UGA can be argued for.


lawlschool wrote:My significant other, as well as my family, will be in Atlanta for the next three years, and I plan on living and working there after lawl skool. I want to be an immigration lawyer, if not that then something else in the public interest field (I am also in a very fortunate circumstance where any debt accumulated in lawl skool will be taken on by my parents).


lawlschool wrote:As for prestige--I don't care. I just want a job that's worthwhile.

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TTTennis
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby TTTennis » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:16 pm

soullesswonder wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
OP, what are your career goals? If you want to do big law, academia, clerkships, big PI work, etc., then you are committing career suicide going to UGA unless you finish in the top of your class. If your goal is something a little more modest, maybe UGA can be argued for.


lawlschool wrote:My significant other, as well as my family, will be in Atlanta for the next three years, and I plan on living and working there after lawl skool. I want to be an immigration lawyer, if not that then something else in the public interest field (I am also in a very fortunate circumstance where any debt accumulated in lawl skool will be taken on by my parents).


lawlschool wrote:As for prestige--I don't care. I just want a job that's worthwhile.


--ImageRemoved--

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flyingpanda
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby flyingpanda » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:45 pm

This may be shocking to some people, but high profile PI jobs care about prestige. You'll have more options even in PI, going to U.Va. Also, I'm sure your parents would appreciate it if you used U.Va's LRAP to help pay off debts, versus having your parents eat it all up at UGA

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soullesswonder
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby soullesswonder » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:53 pm

aznflyingpanda wrote:This may be shocking to some people, but high profile PI jobs care about prestige. You'll have more options even in PI, going to U.Va. Also, I'm sure your parents would appreciate it if you used U.Va's LRAP to help pay off debts, versus having your parents eat it all up at UGA


soullesswonder wrote:If she says that prestige doesn't matter and that she just wants to do something meaningful, then all the conventional analysis about Biglaw placement, clerkships, and top-drawer PI like the ACLU becomes a lot less important, and therefore Virginia's advantage in those areas (which is quite pronounced) is not as important.


Btw, if her parents are willing to pick up the tab no matter what the LRAP thing shouldn't be an issue. 50k @UGA is a relatively small amount.

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romothesavior
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:56 pm

You say that you want a job that's worthwhile, and I'm sure many (probably most) students at UGA will have the opportunity to get a worthwhile job out of LS. But your odds of a worthwhile job are FAR higher from U VA.

Honestly, given your extreme attachment to your SO and your career goals, I'd go to UGA. So no, you're not being a moron.

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Boba Fett
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby Boba Fett » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:57 pm

Upon first glance, I thought the OP asked whether he was being a Mormon.

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flyingpanda
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby flyingpanda » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:58 pm

soullesswonder wrote:
aznflyingpanda wrote:This may be shocking to some people, but high profile PI jobs care about prestige. You'll have more options even in PI, going to U.Va. Also, I'm sure your parents would appreciate it if you used U.Va's LRAP to help pay off debts, versus having your parents eat it all up at UGA


soullesswonder wrote:If she says that prestige doesn't matter and that she just wants to do something meaningful, then all the conventional analysis about Biglaw placement, clerkships, and top-drawer PI like the ACLU becomes a lot less important, and therefore Virginia's advantage in those areas (which is quite pronounced) is not as important.


Btw, if her parents are willing to pick up the tab no matter what the LRAP thing shouldn't be an issue. 50k @UGA is a relatively small amount.


It's not just top stuff like ACLU. With the economy the way it is, people are looking at jobs they wouldn't typically take. Big law people looking at high end PI stuff. High end PI people looking at lower end PI stuff. It's all trickling down, making it hard to find employment across the board.

Also, why are UVa and UGA the only options of OP's parents are picking up the tab? There should be some other closer options on the table.

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romothesavior
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby romothesavior » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:00 am

aznflyingpanda wrote:
soullesswonder wrote:
aznflyingpanda wrote:This may be shocking to some people, but high profile PI jobs care about prestige. You'll have more options even in PI, going to U.Va. Also, I'm sure your parents would appreciate it if you used U.Va's LRAP to help pay off debts, versus having your parents eat it all up at UGA


soullesswonder wrote:If she says that prestige doesn't matter and that she just wants to do something meaningful, then all the conventional analysis about Biglaw placement, clerkships, and top-drawer PI like the ACLU becomes a lot less important, and therefore Virginia's advantage in those areas (which is quite pronounced) is not as important.


Btw, if her parents are willing to pick up the tab no matter what the LRAP thing shouldn't be an issue. 50k @UGA is a relatively small amount.


It's not just top stuff like ACLU. With the economy the way it is, people are looking at jobs they wouldn't typically take. Big law people looking at high end PI stuff. High end PI people looking at lower end PI stuff. It's all trickling down, making it hard to find employment across the board.

Also, why are Cooley College of Law and UGA the only options of OP's parents are picking up the tab? There should be some other closer options on the table.


Good point. Why not Emory? That would be a great option, given its location and placement in ATL.

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soullesswonder
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby soullesswonder » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:05 am

aznflyingpanda wrote:
It's not just top stuff like ACLU. With the economy the way it is, people are looking at jobs they wouldn't typically take. Big law people looking at high end PI stuff. High end PI people looking at lower end PI stuff. It's all trickling down, making it hard to find employment across the board.

Also, why are Cooley College of Law and UGA the only options of OP's parents are picking up the tab? There should be some other closer options on the table.


This is a little overstated. PI still cares about "fit" and commitment - If she goes to UGA OP's sincere desire for PI as a primary option gives her more than a decent shot against some T14 grad looking for a Biglaw backup plan. Also, let's keep in mind that Georgia is still a good law school - it may not "own" the state but the state definitely takes pride in its graduates. Finally, the economy and the legal industry is going to come back somewhat by 2013 (lack of OCI actually works to OP's advantage here), so I doubt there's still going to be the same type of downward pressure on PI jobs.

The PI people aren't fools - they're not eager to be taken for a ride by people who haven't previous demonstrated a commitment.

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flyingpanda
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Re: Am I being a moron?

Postby flyingpanda » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:12 am

soullesswonder wrote:
aznflyingpanda wrote:
It's not just top stuff like ACLU. With the economy the way it is, people are looking at jobs they wouldn't typically take. Big law people looking at high end PI stuff. High end PI people looking at lower end PI stuff. It's all trickling down, making it hard to find employment across the board.

Also, why are Cooley College of Law and UGA the only options of OP's parents are picking up the tab? There should be some other closer options on the table.


This is a little overstated. PI still cares about "fit" and commitment - If she goes to UGA OP's sincere desire for PI as a primary option gives her more than a decent shot against some T13 grad looking for a Biglaw backup plan. Also, let's keep in mind that Georgia is still a good lawl skool - it may not "own" the state but the state definitely takes pride in its graduates. Finally, the economy and the legal industry is going to come back somewhat by 2013 (lack of OCI actually works to OP's advantage here), so I doubt there's still going to be the same type of downward pressure on PI jobs.

The PI people aren't fools - they're not eager to be taken for a ride by people who haven't previous demonstrated a commitment.


Alright, it might be slightly overstated, but my point still stands. Employment is tough across the board right now, not just big law. We don't know for sure how much the industry will come back by 2013, and I wouldn't bank on anything. If it was UGA full ride vs UVA smaller scholarship, then maybe it'd be closer.

Also, back to my second point. There should be other options on the table. Emory? Duke? 3/4 UVa scholly means there should be other options on the table that might be a better balance between employment prospects/proximity to SO.




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