Cardozo, Seton Hall$$$, Rutgers Camden$$, Villanova Forum

[WhizzerWhite]

I've been accepted to Seton Hall, Rutgers Camden, Cardozo, and Villanova, and am having a tough time making up my mind. I got scholarships at Seton Hall and Rutgers Camden and they work out to be about the same price. I didn't get anything yet from Cardozo or Villanova. I'm still not sure where I want to practice (thinking DC), so I was wondering which school has the best reputation/career prospects outside of its region. I want to study Constitutional Law and to clerk after law school, so I was also wondering which school also offers the best chance to do that as well. Thanks for any advice.

[arundodonax]

Rutgers Camden is THE clerking school. Second only to Yale, I think.

I can't justify Nova at sticker, and have you been to Newark? Unless you want to work in New York, Rutgers it is.

[WhizzerWhite]

Asides from clerking, which has the best career prospects outside of the New Jersey/New York/Philly region.

[bernie shmegma]

Rutgers Camden is THE clerking school. Second only to Yale, I think.

I can't justify Nova at sticker, and have you been to Newark? Unless you want to work in New York, Rutgers it is.

Have you been to Camden?

[bernie shmegma]

Asides from clerking, which has the best career prospects outside of the New Jersey/New York/Philly region.

Cardozo is very strong in California and Florida. Villanova is a strong name that probably does well outside of the region due to that factor. But, those are both at sticker. I would agree with the Rutgers comments even though Camden is not ideal AT ALL. I do hear campus is nice though and in state with money is a good deal, especially in case you lose that money. Rutgers carries a solid name everywhere. I mean its a major major university.

[ricking1288]

Rutgers is going through a serious amount of budget cuts. I go to Rutgers and the state has cut over 200 million bucks of Rutgers funding. This will hurt the quality of the education. I'm saying go to Cardozo.

[bernie shmegma]

Rutgers is going through a serious amount of budget cuts. I go to Rutgers and the state has cut over 200 million bucks of Rutgers funding. This will hurt the quality of the education. I'm saying go to Cardozo.

I just turned down Dozo for RU-N. I kept BLS on the table. Is it really THAT bad? Would you say SHU over Rutgers?

[ricking1288]

Rutgers is going through a serious amount of budget cuts. I go to Rutgers and the state has cut over 200 million bucks of Rutgers funding. This will hurt the quality of the education. I'm saying go to Cardozo.

I just turned down Dozo for RU-N. I kept BLS on the table. Is it really THAT bad? Would you say SHU over Rutgers?

I mean i can only speak at the Undergraduate level because I'm doing my undergrad at Rutgers-New Brunswick, but at the undergrad level classes have been cut to the point that I have to stay on for the summer to take 2 classes to fulfill my double major requirements, professors have been laid off, library hours have been shorten, etc. and as of now Rutgers receives the lowest amount of funding from the state than any other state university. Granted RU-Newark LS is a good school to attend, especially if ur in-state and want to practice in the Tri-state area, but for everyone that knows about Rutgers, they know about the RU Screw, which from what I heard about is hitting both law schools as well (RU-N and RU-C). Don't get me wrong I love Rutgers and I know a few people attending RU-Newark and they like it too, but they still have a shitload of complaints as well. In addition, tuition itself will be on a rise because this semester alone Rutgers has been hit with another $19 million budget cut. Me personally, I would taken Brooklyn. Don't go to SHU because its ridiculous to pay that amount SHU, unless your interested in healthcare law or received a good scholly.

[WhizzerWhite]

I didn't even apply to Rutgers Newark or Brooklyn and have no interest in either one of those. Also to clarify, I'm getting a great scholarship at Seton Hall and it works out to be the same cost as Rutgers Camden with their scholarship, working out to be about 10-12 a year. In other words, Seton Hall and Camden's prices are the same, so I can't just choose between them on the price. So Seton Hall and Ruters ~12 a year, Cardozo full price. I'm not intersted in healthcare law, I'm intersted in Constitutional Law. As for clerking, I know one of Camden's selling points is their clerkships, but Seton Hall has SCOTUS clerk this term, and Cardozo has a clerking program with the NY Federal District Court. Asides from NY/NJ/Philly, which has the best to get a job in DC.

[inSouthAmerica]

if you have no interest in Rutgers-Newark but are seriously considering Seton Hall because they gave you money, I'd say there's an above average chance you're developmentally delayed.

[underachiever]

Cardozo
Seton Hall ($$$$)
Rutgers Camden ($ plus in State)
Villanova

Questions
(1):
What strings are attached to the cash?, esp from Seton Hall which is known to stack scholarship students in a section, so that some will be forced to lose them

(2):
Do you want to practice in NYC?---Cardozo is better, esp in the Burroughs

Do you want to practice in NJ, with a small chance at NYC? ---Then refer to the money question above and select the cheapest school, with the lowest strings attached to the $

Do you want to practice in Philly?---Then go to 'Nova

All in all I would not pay full price for ANY of these schools, esp. in this economy....good luck

[WhizzerWhite]

SouthAmerica, I didn't apply just to locations. I looked at the institutions and academics. Seton Hall gave me a fee waiver so I applied. Now they're giving me 35k a year. Honestly I didn't like Rutgers Newark, and I think anyone should seriously consider 35k a year at a top 100 school. I'm also seriously considering Rutgers Camden and Cardozo, any thoughts on those schools either? Thanks for your opinion.

[WhizzerWhite]

Underachiever, For Seton Hall its 35k and I need to stay in the top half, and for Rutgers Camden its 10k over 3.6, 8k over 3.3, and 5k under a 3.3. I also want to practice in DC, so thats why I want to find out which school is best for DC. Thanks for the help.

[inSouthAmerica]

i wouldnt go to cardozo for sticker, though it is undeniably a well run school with smart students, i just know a lot of people there and i know theyre fearing for their lives with the debt right now. i dont understand how you would "look at schools not regions". every school on your list is a "regional school". all in all, i would pick rutgers camden from the choices on your list. seton hall is going to be the fourth choice for employers even in nj behind the top schools, rutgers-c, and rutgers-n. limit your debt, but don't limit your options.

[bernie shmegma]

Is money an issue for you or not?

[bernie shmegma]

Rutgers is going through a serious amount of budget cuts. I go to Rutgers and the state has cut over 200 million bucks of Rutgers funding. This will hurt the quality of the education. I'm saying go to Cardozo.

I just turned down Dozo for RU-N. I kept BLS on the table. Is it really THAT bad? Would you say SHU over Rutgers?

I mean i can only speak at the Undergraduate level because I'm doing my undergrad at Rutgers-New Brunswick, but at the undergrad level classes have been cut to the point that I have to stay on for the summer to take 2 classes to fulfill my double major requirements, professors have been laid off, library hours have been shorten, etc. and as of now Rutgers receives the lowest amount of funding from the state than any other state university. Granted RU-Newark LS is a good school to attend, especially if ur in-state and want to practice in the Tri-state area, but for everyone that knows about Rutgers, they know about the RU Screw, which from what I heard about is hitting both law schools as well (RU-N and RU-C). Don't get me wrong I love Rutgers and I know a few people attending RU-Newark and they like it too, but they still have a shitload of complaints as well. In addition, tuition itself will be on a rise because this semester alone Rutgers has been hit with another $19 million budget cut. Me personally, I would taken Brooklyn. Don't go to SHU because its ridiculous to pay that amount SHU, unless your interested in healthcare law or received a good scholly.

See, I have 35K at SHU (new offer) and 25K at BLS. BUT, being that I am concerned for the "stacking" problem, I concluded thus far that neither school is better than RU-N by any means whatsoever, that COL is high in Brooklyn, and that losing a scholly and being stuck with sticker at these places is not worth the debt when RU provides in-state and a half ride and at least as good of an education. Even if I lose the scholly at RU (in which case i would have lost it at BLS or SHU) and tuition goes up a lot, it is still cheaper than BLS and SHU would be at sticker. The case for Rutgers in-state with money, especially a stipulation at 3.0 (arguably the most lenient one of them all) is hard to beat. RU - C stipulations for whizzer are not great, but again the in-state factor applies. Thus, I asked the question no one has asked: Is money an issue for WhizzerWhite? BTW for DC all of the schools have people working everywhere. I mean you won't compete with GW or Georgetown or even AU in town, but there is plenty of diversity as far as educational background goes. I ran into 1 RU-C and 1 RU-N in DC last summer at the mall that I knew from college and they were both clerking. I do not remember specifically where. Also, two people is not the best sample haha, but its something.

[bernie shmegma]

FWIW I turned down 20K at Nova and 3.25 stipulation without thinking twice. Didn't even make it to my final 4 and I have an interest too in going to DC if life permits. As far as Con Law goes, which is my passion as well, SHU has GITMO reports, Cardozo has a program/center for constitutional government that did intrigue me. Keep in mind they market these things well, but to be aware of intra-competition to gain access and how much more are these experiences worth than is available at other schools? And, Is it just advertised more?

If I were you, I would have applied to George Mason for Constitutional Law. Tuition is reasonable and they actually teach the proper interpretation of things. All of these schools you are considering will be the same for Con Law. You're going to develop your own curricula for that anyway and professors will facilitate your endeavors. If you're not at U Chicago or G-town and other T14, or not at George Mason with a unique type of emphasis, then its doesn't matter where you end up. Take your JD and become a constitutional scholar on your own. Just please don't interpret it with the main criteria being a contemporary, arbitrary and subjective context of striving for "a more perfect union."

[superflush]

Have you been to Camden?

lol

I've been accepted to Seton Hall, Rutgers Camden, Cardozo, and Villanova, ... not sure where I want to practice (thinking DC).

Okay, all of these schools are regional and none of them are in the Beltway.
But, if these were my options, I'd be leaning towards Villanova, and considering Cardozo next.

[inSouthAmerica]

@bernie shmemga - i've been noticing how smart you are. ill be racing you to keep my scholarship. oh wait, that was your point. well both get to keep them, .

[keg411]

Someone found out that RU-C curves to a B+ (3.33), so keeping half that scholarship isn't bad and will save you $$$. I would go there if what you really want to do is clerk (and RU-C had the SCOTUS clerk, not SHU). RU-C is also shockingly nice. It doesn't seem dangerous or scary at all.

And yes, these are all regional schools. If you want to go to DC you will have to do it on your own (and probs. be #1 in your class).

superflush, would you really pick 'Nova or 'Dozo @ $200k vs. RU-C @ around 60-80k??? Sticker v. Sticker is VERY different than sticker vs. in-state+$. Honestly, down here on the ladder it makes next to zero sense to pay sticker for those schools. The opportunities are not that far apart. (I wouldn't choose SHU w/$, but I can see why it's interesting and I wouldn't blame someone for doing it - but I would make sure I was comfy with losing my scholly).

[bernie shmegma]

Someone found out that RU-C curves to a B+ (3.33), so keeping half that scholarship isn't bad and will save you $$$. I would go there if what you really want to do is clerk (and RU-C had the SCOTUS clerk, not SHU). RU-C is also shockingly nice. It doesn't seem dangerous or scary at all.

And yes, these are all regional schools. If you want to go to DC you will have to do it on your own (and probs. be #1 in your class).

superflush, would you really pick 'Nova or 'Dozo @ $200k vs. RU-C @ around 60-80k??? Sticker v. Sticker is VERY different than sticker vs. in-state+$. Honestly, down here on the ladder it makes next to zero sense to pay sticker for those schools. The opportunities are not that far apart. (I wouldn't choose SHU w/$, but I can see why it's interesting and I wouldn't blame someone for doing it - but I would make sure I was comfy with losing my scholly).

SHU DID or does have a SCOTUS clerk for Justice Alito who was rewarded an honorary degree recently from SHU, just to clarify.

I agree with Keg on the sticker issue, especially if you want to be a clerk. Taking that kind of debt is ridiculous. Do they give public interest loan relief for Clerkships? This I do not know, but would find out if I were you and if money matters.

[reverendt]

Nova & Cardozo are you best bets for DC and general portability.
Seton Hall is very regional...only go if you like North Jersey.
Camden....well the city is a dump, but the Philly market is right there, and it's closer to DC than SH, and probably has more ties to that market.
Cardozo you're gonna a fortune in living expenses....
All this means...I'd say Nova if you're willing to pay alot for more portability and best chance at DC.
Otherwise I'd say Camden..

[inSouthAmerica]

seton hall has a SCOTUS clerk this year. its a fluke and will never happen again.

the idea that cardozo or villanova have more portability than rutgers is a fantasy.

[bernie shmegma]

Nova & Cardozo are you best bets for DC and general portability.
Seton Hall is very regional...only go if you like North Jersey.
Camden....well the city is a dump, but the Philly market is right there, and it's closer to DC than SH, and probably has more ties to that market.
Cardozo you're gonna a fortune in living expenses....
All this means...I'd say Nova if you're willing to pay alot for more portability and best chance at DC.
Otherwise I'd say Camden..

Villanova would only be more portable because of its name. Rutgers and SHU as far as DC goes is probably more portable than Cardozo (my assumption). Cardozo students want big law and if it is not NY, its San Fransisco. In DC, I don't think anyone cares whether you went to Nova, Dozo, RU, or SHU. By the way, there are plenty of people from SHU and Rutgers down in DC, I know this for a fact. However, I admit I am less familiar with the other two schools' presence in DC. The thing is that they don't pay attention to these regional discrepancies, US news rankings, name recognition etc like they do in the actual regions. If you go to a TOP 100ish school and do well/ gain relevant experience on your resume its all the SAME. Forget about the SCOTUS. They only take the from best schools (unless Alito starts a new tradition with the best out of SHU).

[bernie shmegma]

seton hall has a SCOTUS clerk this year. its a fluke and will never happen again.

the idea that cardozo or villanova have more portability than rutgers is a fantasy.

Great minds think alike- You wrote that as I was writing my response above.