Best school for job prospects???

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BoomBoom1986
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Best school for job prospects???

Postby BoomBoom1986 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:31 pm

UMN, UC Hastings and/or Davis or Temple?

I've narrowed my choices down to these three (I'm visiting Davis and UMN next month, already seen Hastings and Temple). Quite frankly, I could see myself living and working in NorCal, Philly or Minneapolis. It;s like a three-way tie between those locations. They all have their positives, but I'm mostly worried about my job prospects at each school. Assuming I'm median at all these schools, which school gives me the best shot of getting a nice gig in three years? I feel like UMN is the "best" school (maybe even by a decent margin) and I feel that it has the most mobility (though it's still regional), but long-term I feel I could move with it more. On the other hand, I feel that the UCs are located in the better legal market where there will be more opportunities. I feel like Temple is sort of in the middle on both of those issues, though: It probably has the second best "name" power and mobility (from where I've seen grads working) and it's located in the second largest legal market (smaller than Cali, but larger than MN). I honestly don't know what I want to do in law yet, btw. Public interest, BigLaw, boutique firm, government, who knows? I've just always wanted to be an attorney.

fyi, I'll have about $40k of debt at UMN, $60k at the UCs and none at Temple. However, I'm thinking that my debt at the UCs and UMN is manageable, or at least I've been told so after making some threads about it on here, because I originally told myself I'd only go to law school if I could go debt free. Apparently, under six figures is still reasonable, though.

singingvontrapp
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby singingvontrapp » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:40 pm

I considered UMN for my safety as it is the best school in its region. But it is such a cold and middle of nowhere region.

eldizknee
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby eldizknee » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:43 pm

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Last edited by eldizknee on Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby Thomas Jefferson » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:45 pm

UMN all the way man. It's the best school you got into and it's in the best city out of your options.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:47 pm

eldizknee wrote:UMN is def your best bet if you're alright with living in Minneapolis

This is probably true. It's a very good school, and the best in Minnesota. It'll also give you at least a shot at the Chicago market if you do really well.

Also, Temple isn't a terrible option, since many Penn grads are looking to get outside of PA when they graduate, and most T14 grads aren't looking to get in there. If you have any interest in living in PA post-graduation, Temple isn't a bad choice.

The CA market on the other hand is saturated right now, and you've got lots of Berkeley, UCLA, and USC grads that will want to stay in CA when they graduate... I'd avoid Hastings and Davis like the plague right now if you're seeking employability.

Zeile
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby Zeile » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:48 pm

Didn't you post in an earlier thread that you got into USC, too?

BoomBoom1986
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby BoomBoom1986 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:54 pm

Zeile wrote:Didn't you post in an earlier thread that you got into USC, too?


Well these were my "complete" options that I posted earlier:

UC Hastings
UC Davis
Temple with $
Minnesota with $
Univ. of Washington
Santa Clara with $
USC
William & Mary
Waitlisted at UVA, Vanderbilt and UCLA


Since then I've also heard back from WUSTL (FINALLY, but I'm in), but I've narrowed it down to these three. I didn't like UDub when I visited, Santa Clara isn't good enough of a school, I hate LA and don't like St. Louis and small towns like Williamsburg. If I got off the wait list at Vandy I'd consider going, and I'd attend UVA in a heartbeat (though living in a Charlottesville for three years scares me).

BoomBoom1986
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby BoomBoom1986 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:55 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
eldizknee wrote:UMN is def your best bet if you're alright with living in Minneapolis

This is probably true. It's a very good school, and the best in Minnesota. It'll also give you at least a shot at the Chicago market if you do really well.

Also, Temple isn't a terrible option, since many Penn grads are looking to get outside of PA when they graduate, and most T14 grads aren't looking to get in there. If you have any interest in living in PA post-graduation, Temple isn't a bad choice.

The CA market on the other hand is saturated right now, and you've got lots of Berkeley, UCLA, and USC grads that will want to stay in CA when they graduate... I'd avoid Hastings and Davis like the plague right now if you're seeking employability.


The Cali market is really that bad? I thought that NYC and DC were the worst hit. Plus, I've read that the CA economy is starting to recover.

BoomBoom1986
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby BoomBoom1986 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:55 pm

Thomas Jefferson wrote:UMN all the way man. It's the best school you got into and it's in the best city out of your options.


You think Minneapolis is a better legal market than SF or Philly?

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Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby Thomas Jefferson » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:01 pm

BoomBoom1986 wrote:
Thomas Jefferson wrote:UMN all the way man. It's the best school you got into and it's in the best city out of your options.


You think Minneapolis is a better legal market than SF or Philly?


I think Minneapolis is a better city to live in than Philly and that one is better off job-wise in Mineapolis with UMN than Cali with those options because of the competition facing you in a saturated market there. But what do I know (at least to the last point); I'm a mere 0L.

PS. I also wouldn't want to live in a state on the verge of bankruptcy.

BoomBoom1986
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby BoomBoom1986 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:05 pm

Thomas Jefferson wrote:
BoomBoom1986 wrote:
Thomas Jefferson wrote:UMN all the way man. It's the best school you got into and it's in the best city out of your options.


You think Minneapolis is a better legal market than SF or Philly?


I think Minneapolis is a better city to live in than Philly and that one is better off job-wise in Mineapolis with UMN than Cali with those options because of the competition facing you in a saturated market there. But what do I know (at least to the last point); I'm a mere 0L.

PS. I also wouldn't want to live in a state on the verge of bankruptcy.


Haha, true. Then again, who wants to live in a country on the verge of bankruptcy and we're all pretty much stuck in the US, no? I feel that CA will recover long-term, but who knows where it will be in three years? The problem is, that although I wouldnt mind living in any of these places, I'd prefer NorCal, so that is why the UCs are still in play for me. But job prospects trump all ITE.

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darknightbegins
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby darknightbegins » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:08 pm

BoomBoom1986 wrote:
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
BoomBoom1986 wrote:
Thomas Jefferson wrote:UMN all the way man. It's the best school you got into and it's in the best city out of your options.


You think Minneapolis is a better legal market than SF or Philly?


I think Minneapolis is a better city to live in than Philly and that one is better off job-wise in Mineapolis with UMN than Cali with those options because of the competition facing you in a saturated market there. But what do I know (at least to the last point); I'm a mere 0L.

PS. I also wouldn't want to live in a state on the verge of bankruptcy.


Haha, true. Then again, who wants to live in a country on the verge of bankruptcy and we're all pretty much stuck in the US, no? I feel that CA will recover long-term, but who knows where it will be in three years? The problem is, that although I wouldnt mind living in any of these places, I'd prefer NorCal, so that is why the UCs are still in play for me. But job prospects trump all ITE.


CA is closer to the verge of bankruptcy than the US government. I'd hate the frozen tundra of UMN but Cali is fucked up....shit...yeah maybe Temple..but people in Philly are some of the worst assholes in the Northeast and that is saying something. Fuck it, just go to the UC schools, pray that state gets its head out of its ass and it doesn't fall into th ocean. However, note that I also hate the cold and would not go to a state in a cold weather region not in the T-14.

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General Tso
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby General Tso » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:10 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
eldizknee wrote:UMN is def your best bet if you're alright with living in Minneapolis

This is probably true. It's a very good school, and the best in Minnesota. It'll also give you at least a shot at the Chicago market if you do really well.

Also, Temple isn't a terrible option, since many Penn grads are looking to get outside of PA when they graduate, and most T14 grads aren't looking to get in there. If you have any interest in living in PA post-graduation, Temple isn't a bad choice.

The CA market on the other hand is saturated right now, and you've got lots of Berkeley, UCLA, and USC grads that will want to stay in CA when they graduate... I'd avoid Hastings and Davis like the plague right now if you're seeking employability.


In a normal economy a fair number of Berkeley and Stanford people go off to NYC, DC, LA, etc. leaving Hastings and Davis grads as the primary schools in NorCal. But that doesn't seem to be happening anymore now that biglaw hiring has collapsed.

Some Hastings people are still doing fine (eg - someone on TLS was top 15% and got V20), but I get the sense that most are like me and are jobless for the summer. At least those of us without connections that is.

To answer OP's question though, MN probably gives the best job prospects of all, but you still need to consider region. If CA is your desired market MN probably won't do it. If I were you, I'd attend Univ of Washington.

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General Tso
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby General Tso » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:13 pm

darknightbegins wrote:
CA is closer to the verge of bankruptcy than the US government. I'd hate the frozen tundra of UMN but Cali is fucked up....shit...yeah maybe Temple..but people in Philly are some of the worst assholes in the Northeast and that is saying something. Fuck it, just go to the UC schools, pray that state gets its head out of its ass and it doesn't fall into th ocean. However, note that I also hate the cold and would not go to a state in a cold weather region not in the T-14.


Don't make the mistake of equating the CA state gov't budget with the health of the CA economy in general. Truth is, the CA state budget has been f'ed up since the 70s/80s, yet CA still has by far the largest economy in the US. It is bad right now with high unemployment, but it will recover in the near future.

fortissimo
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby fortissimo » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:14 pm

BoomBoom1986 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
eldizknee wrote:UMN is def your best bet if you're alright with living in Minneapolis

This is probably true. It's a very good school, and the best in Minnesota. It'll also give you at least a shot at the Chicago market if you do really well.

Also, Temple isn't a terrible option, since many Penn grads are looking to get outside of PA when they graduate, and most T14 grads aren't looking to get in there. If you have any interest in living in PA post-graduation, Temple isn't a bad choice.

The CA market on the other hand is saturated right now, and you've got lots of Berkeley, UCLA, and USC grads that will want to stay in CA when they graduate... I'd avoid Hastings and Davis like the plague right now if you're seeking employability.


The Cali market is really that bad? I thought that NYC and DC were the worst hit. Plus, I've read that the CA economy is starting to recover.


No, CA markets are faring worse than those two. NYC is still by far the biggest legal market (and hence easiest to get into) while DC, partly because of prestigious fed jobs, has always been and remains the "most prestigious" legal market. It's always been the most difficult to break into GPA-wise, because of the "prestige" factor. I don't think it contracted that much compared to other markets. It may be easier breaking into CA markets GPA-wise, but DC contracted relatively little relative to other markets, so the difficulty relates to its prestige factor rather than economic ramifications. NYC on the other hand, is just a lot easier to break into GPA-wise than CA because NYC has, by far, the largest variety of large and small firms.

CA also has top 5 unemployment. I don't think the economy is improving yet, but beyond that, unemployment is a lagging variable anyway so you wouldn't see improvements in unemployment for at least a few years after the economy starts recovering.

BoomBoom1986
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby BoomBoom1986 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:26 pm

swheat wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
eldizknee wrote:UMN is def your best bet if you're alright with living in Minneapolis

This is probably true. It's a very good school, and the best in Minnesota. It'll also give you at least a shot at the Chicago market if you do really well.

Also, Temple isn't a terrible option, since many Penn grads are looking to get outside of PA when they graduate, and most T14 grads aren't looking to get in there. If you have any interest in living in PA post-graduation, Temple isn't a bad choice.

The CA market on the other hand is saturated right now, and you've got lots of Berkeley, UCLA, and USC grads that will want to stay in CA when they graduate... I'd avoid Hastings and Davis like the plague right now if you're seeking employability.


In a normal economy a fair number of Berkeley and Stanford people go off to NYC, DC, LA, etc. leaving Hastings and Davis grads as the primary schools in NorCal. But that doesn't seem to be happening anymore now that biglaw hiring has collapsed.

Some Hastings people are still doing fine (eg - someone on TLS was top 15% and got V20), but I get the sense that most are like me and are jobless for the summer. At least those of us without connections that is.

To answer OP's question though, MN probably gives the best job prospects of all, but you still need to consider region. If CA is your desired market MN probably won't do it. If I were you, I'd attend Univ of Washington.

:shock:
Well that is a bit disconcerting

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vanwinkle
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:28 pm

BoomBoom1986 wrote:I'd attend UVA in a heartbeat (though living in a Charlottesville for three years scares me).

:shock: :shock: :shock:

WHY?

BoomBoom1986
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby BoomBoom1986 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:33 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
BoomBoom1986 wrote:I'd attend UVA in a heartbeat (though living in a Charlottesville for three years scares me).

:shock: :shock: :shock:

WHY?


Well, I'm definitely a urbanite (dare I even say "hipster"?) type of person. I really do need a big city to be at home. State College and Charlottesville and those type of places are like my version of the Apocalypse. That being said, I do LOVE the school and the opportunities it would provide and I'd attend in a heartbeat -- at sticker, too.

Note: By possibly referring to myself as a hipster, I'm most definitely not a hipster.

fortissimo
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby fortissimo » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:34 pm

BoomBoom1986 wrote:
swheat wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
eldizknee wrote:UMN is def your best bet if you're alright with living in Minneapolis

This is probably true. It's a very good school, and the best in Minnesota. It'll also give you at least a shot at the Chicago market if you do really well.

Also, Temple isn't a terrible option, since many Penn grads are looking to get outside of PA when they graduate, and most T14 grads aren't looking to get in there. If you have any interest in living in PA post-graduation, Temple isn't a bad choice.

The CA market on the other hand is saturated right now, and you've got lots of Berkeley, UCLA, and USC grads that will want to stay in CA when they graduate... I'd avoid Hastings and Davis like the plague right now if you're seeking employability.


In a normal economy a fair number of Berkeley and Stanford people go off to NYC, DC, LA, etc. leaving Hastings and Davis grads as the primary schools in NorCal. But that doesn't seem to be happening anymore now that biglaw hiring has collapsed.

Some Hastings people are still doing fine (eg - someone on TLS was top 15% and got V20), but I get the sense that most are like me and are jobless for the summer. At least those of us without connections that is.

To answer OP's question though, MN probably gives the best job prospects of all, but you still need to consider region. If CA is your desired market MN probably won't do it. If I were you, I'd attend Univ of Washington.

:shock:
Well that is a bit disconcerting


swheat...are you a 1L and talking about other 1Ls? If so, that is just really, really weird since 1Ls tend to target unpaid employment.

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mnolen
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby mnolen » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:38 pm

BoomBoom1986 wrote:
swheat wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
eldizknee wrote:UMN is def your best bet if you're alright with living in Minneapolis

This is probably true. It's a very good school, and the best in Minnesota. It'll also give you at least a shot at the Chicago market if you do really well.

Also, Temple isn't a terrible option, since many Penn grads are looking to get outside of PA when they graduate, and most T14 grads aren't looking to get in there. If you have any interest in living in PA post-graduation, Temple isn't a bad choice.

The CA market on the other hand is saturated right now, and you've got lots of Berkeley, UCLA, and USC grads that will want to stay in CA when they graduate... I'd avoid Hastings and Davis like the plague right now if you're seeking employability.


In a normal economy a fair number of Berkeley and Stanford people go off to NYC, DC, LA, etc. leaving Hastings and Davis grads as the primary schools in NorCal. But that doesn't seem to be happening anymore now that biglaw hiring has collapsed.

Some Hastings people are still doing fine (eg - someone on TLS was top 15% and got V20), but I get the sense that most are like me and are jobless for the summer. At least those of us without connections that is.

To answer OP's question though, MN probably gives the best job prospects of all, but you still need to consider region. If CA is your desired market MN probably won't do it. If I were you, I'd attend Univ of Washington.

:shock:
Well that is a bit disconcerting



fwiw, I'm also a 1L at Hastings and everyone I know has a summer job. *shrug* Only one got his job through a "connection." I think it's a big exaggeration to suggest that "most" people are without jobs.

BoomBoom1986
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby BoomBoom1986 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:40 pm

To the two Hastings people: How are job prospects looking for the 2Ls, 3Ls and class of 2009??? Bad, awful, terrible??? Median doing doc reviews for $20 an hour??? Median still alright (maybe taking jobs in Walnut Creek for $80k a year?)

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vanwinkle
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:50 pm

BoomBoom1986 wrote:Well, I'm definitely a urbanite (dare I even say "hipster"?) type of person. I really do need a big city to be at home. State College and Charlottesville and those type of places are like my version of the Apocalypse. That being said, I do LOVE the school and the opportunities it would provide and I'd attend in a heartbeat -- at sticker, too.

Charlottesville is not like many college towns. It's a very unique and enjoyable city. I'd recommend visiting it before dismissing it (though this is somewhat moot since you're on a WL now anyway).

BoomBoom1986
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby BoomBoom1986 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:55 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
BoomBoom1986 wrote:Well, I'm definitely a urbanite (dare I even say "hipster"?) type of person. I really do need a big city to be at home. State College and Charlottesville and those type of places are like my version of the Apocalypse. That being said, I do LOVE the school and the opportunities it would provide and I'd attend in a heartbeat -- at sticker, too.

Charlottesville is not like many college towns. It's a very unique and enjoyable city. I'd recommend visiting it before dismissing it (though this is somewhat moot since you're on a WL now anyway).


Oh, I have visited it. Don't get me wrong -- it's definitely a "nice" town. I can certainly see why some people would enjoy it. My parents for example, LOVED the place (they visited UVA's UG with my little brother a couple of years ago). They'd probably live there if they could. However, I'm a "big city" type of guy. It's just my personality, the types of things I like to do and the kind of people I hangout with I guess. For instance, I know that a lot of people HATE Philadelphia and would never want to live there (and I can see why), but I LOVE the place. Different strokes for different people, no?

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General Tso
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby General Tso » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:02 am

mnolen wrote:

fwiw, I'm also a 1L at Hastings and everyone I know has a summer job. *shrug* Only one got his job through a "connection." I think it's a big exaggeration to suggest that "most" people are without jobs.


I must be in the slacker section then. That's good to hear that other people are having success. What search methods are you using? I have applied to every opening on Simplicity for 1Ls since about mid-February and only gotten one interview. I've also cold emailed a shit ton of firms offering to work for free.

What kind of jobs are you guys getting? Even the people I've talked to who are looking for public interest haven't had much luck.

UCLAtransfer
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Re: Best school for job prospects???

Postby UCLAtransfer » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:14 am

I will try to find the link for this, but I remember seeing somewhere that attorney layoffs and the contraction in summer hiring at big firms was concentrated (as a weighted percentage) first on NY, and then on DC and Chicago, with CA taking the (relatively) smallest hit.

If anyone has a link to this feel free to post.




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