Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

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holborn
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Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby holborn » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:56 pm

So I'm currently deciding btwn 2 schools, one in t5 and the other t10. I feel like I'll be happier at the t10 school, but am worried about career prospects and wonder if im putting myself at a disadvantage by not taking a t5 school when I can.

I suppose the general consensus is that the same jobs are available but you'll have to do better (class rank wise) to get them coming from the t10. That being said, do people think its easier to do well in law school when youre happier, or are grades all a crapshoot anyway?

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ConMan345
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby ConMan345 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:58 pm

julesm2200 wrote:So I'm currently deciding btwn 2 schools, one in t5 and the other t10. I feel like I'll be happier at the t10 school, but am worried about career prospects and wonder if im putting myself at a disadvantage by not taking a t5 school when I can.

I suppose the general consensus is that the same jobs are available but you'll have to do better (class rank wise) to get them coming from the t10. That being said, do people think its easier to do well in law school when youre happier, or are grades all a crapshoot anyway?


Happier = more energy/motivation = better grades. It depends on HOW much happier you'd be, but I'd generally take it.

rob1232
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby rob1232 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:04 am

Ya, it seems that rankings are a lot more important to ppl on this site than "fit" or quality of life. (although that might be just b/c it's harder to debate things like personal fit on a forum)

Ultimately, what's more important? The highly ranked school that places well in your region but just isn't the ideal place for you to study law for three years or the slightly lower ranked school that you instantly see yourself at?

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Cara
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby Cara » Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:05 am

I think you will be a lot happier if you have a good job when you graduate. For that reason go to the T5 and suck it up.

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Ayeshabelle
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby Ayeshabelle » Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:36 pm

You might want to write out a list of the reasons why the T5 school would make you unhappy. Then ask yourself- would these factors inevitably lead to poor performance or can I just suck it up and still perform well? Different people have different environments in which they thrive and that is something to consider carefully before committing yourself to 3 years of law school and ungodly amounts of debt.

miamiman
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby miamiman » Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:38 pm

did the t6 suddenly get axed to t5? kinda like t13?

keg411
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby keg411 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:41 pm

Don't go somewhere you will be miserable just for the sake of rankings. You are within the T14, which is key. You are not screwing yourself by picking the T10 - especially if the T10 will be cheaper overall. If all of the schools are in the CCNMVPBDCN group (which I'm guessing they are since you didn't say HYS), there really isn't a huge amount of difference. See the Chi v. NYU v. Penn thread.

If the "miserable" school is one of HYS - then it gets trickier.

bauerahl
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby bauerahl » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:59 am

I agree with Keg for the most part. The difference in prospects at the schools at this range are not that significant (I am assuming by "T5" you don't mean HYS). So unless there's a good reason to choose the higher ranked school (such as I want to clerk/teach/get a V10 job, etc.), I would personally want to be happy for three years (or at the very least, less depressed). Taking Michigan over NYU doesn't seem very crazy to me at all.

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RVP11
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby RVP11 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:09 am

bauerahl wrote:I agree with Keg for the most part. The difference in prospects at the schools at this range are not that significant (I am assuming by "T5" you don't mean HYS). So unless there's a good reason to choose the higher ranked school (such as I want to clerk/teach/get a V10 job, etc.), I would personally want to be happy for three years (or at the very least, less depressed). Taking Michigan over NYU doesn't seem very crazy to me at all.


Right but NYU is not T5. I assume OP means Columbia or Chicago. And when those schools are still getting 70+% into BigLaw and MVPBDCN are all maybe getting ~40% into BigLaw, there are plenty of good reasons to take the T5 school even if you have no interest in clerking, teaching, or getting a V10 job.

The two posters above me seem to have pre-ITE mentalities. The T14 is no longer a safety net. The T5 still kinda is.

keg411
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby keg411 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:16 am

RVP11 wrote:
bauerahl wrote:I agree with Keg for the most part. The difference in prospects at the schools at this range are not that significant (I am assuming by "T5" you don't mean HYS). So unless there's a good reason to choose the higher ranked school (such as I want to clerk/teach/get a V10 job, etc.), I would personally want to be happy for three years (or at the very least, less depressed). Taking Michigan over NYU doesn't seem very crazy to me at all.


Right but NYU is not T5. I assume OP means Columbia or Chicago. And when those schools are still getting 70+% into BigLaw and MVPBDCN are all maybe getting ~40% into BigLaw, there are plenty of good reasons to take the T5 school even if you have no interest in clerking, teaching, or getting a V10 job.

The two posters above me seem to have pre-ITE mentalities. The T14 is no longer a safety net. The T5 still kinda is.


I think you are giving CC too much credit. If the school is Columbia, maybe OP doesn't like New York and wouldn't feel comfortable there (NYC can be very overwhelming and pricey). If the school is Chi, OP would not be the only one who expressed reservations about the atmosphere. And yes, even ITE, there is not that much of a difference between CCNMVPBDCN.
Last edited by keg411 on Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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underachiever
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby underachiever » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:20 am

Grades in some respects are a crap-shoot in these ways: (1) typing speed (if you can throw up 10k words in the exam period while i only throw up 5k...even if i "know" more law, the brain dump seems to help) (2) did you get that one exam, sometimes you just shank one. But all in all the more you study/read/outline/practice test...etc. the better you will do(not guaranteed all As, but at least top 20%).

i have decent grades, barely study and I somewhat enjoy law school (not the classes, but the people are pretty good and the city is fun)....t5 v. t10...i guess I would go with the the t5, unless money is the difference b/c i can make myself happy anywhere (alcohol/bars+sports= me smile)

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RVP11
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby RVP11 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:20 am

keg411 wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
bauerahl wrote:I agree with Keg for the most part. The difference in prospects at the schools at this range are not that significant (I am assuming by "T5" you don't mean HYS). So unless there's a good reason to choose the higher ranked school (such as I want to clerk/teach/get a V10 job, etc.), I would personally want to be happy for three years (or at the very least, less depressed). Taking Michigan over NYU doesn't seem very crazy to me at all.


Right but NYU is not T5. I assume OP means Columbia or Chicago. And when those schools are still getting 70+% into BigLaw and MVPBDCN are all maybe getting ~40% into BigLaw, there are plenty of good reasons to take the T5 school even if you have no interest in clerking, teaching, or getting a V10 job.

The two posters above me seem to have pre-ITE mentalities. The T14 is no longer a safety net. The T5 still kinda is.


I think you are giving CC too much credit.


Are you in law school at one of these places?

Read all 33 pages of the OCI callback thread, then talk to Columbia/Chicago students about how OCI went for current 2Ls. I'm definitely not giving them too much credit.

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jlnoa0915
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby jlnoa0915 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:25 am

If your biggest problem is choosing between the T5 or T10 law school, then I think you're doing alright. Either way you'll probably be in good shape.

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RVP11
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby RVP11 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:29 am

keg411 wrote:If the school is Columbia, maybe OP doesn't like New York and wouldn't feel comfortable there (NYC can be very overwhelming and pricey). If the school is Chi, OP would not be the only one who expressed reservations about the atmosphere.


Did I say anything about which school OP should like? All I'm saying is OP would be giving up a SIGNIFICANT difference in prospects. I'm not debating OP's subjective feelings about law schools with you.

keg411 wrote:And yes, even ITE, there is not that much of a difference between CCNMVPBDCN.


Are you a 0L? On what authority do you say this?

I know that Chicago managed to get 70+% of their 2Ls into BigLaw SAs this summer. My T10 probably pulled 40% at best. I'm speaking from something much closer to personal knowledge here. And the OCI callback thread seems to confirm my suspicions.

keg411
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby keg411 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:32 am

RVP11 wrote:
keg411 wrote:If the school is Columbia, maybe OP doesn't like New York and wouldn't feel comfortable there (NYC can be very overwhelming and pricey). If the school is Chi, OP would not be the only one who expressed reservations about the atmosphere.


Did I say anything about which school OP should like? All I'm saying is OP would be giving up a SIGNIFICANT difference in prospects. I'm not debating OP's subjective feelings about law schools with you.

keg411 wrote:And yes, even ITE, there is not that much of a difference between CCNMVPBDCN.


Are you a 0L? On what authority do you say this?

I know that Chicago managed to get 70+% of their 2Ls into BigLaw SAs this summer. My T10 probably pulled 40% at best. I'm speaking from something much closer to personal knowledge here.


I know several T14 3L's (2 at CLS, several at lower T14; one is my sister). They are the ones who expressed this view and I'm inclined to believe them. Now 3L's are different than 2L's, but that's the information they've told me. You don't have to attack me to present a different viewpoint. I've read the data and talked to people just the same. There are no guarantees wherever you go. I also really don't feel like arguing this right now.
Last edited by keg411 on Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RVP11
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby RVP11 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:34 am

keg411 wrote:I know several T14 3L's (2 at CLS, several at lower T14; one is my sister). They are the ones who expressed this view and I'm inclined to believe them. Now 3L's are different than 2L's, but that's the information they've told me.


Now I don't blame you for not being persuaded by second-hand information coming from me, but you do have to admit that statistical > anecdotal, no?

wackadoodle
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Re: Correlation btwn Happiness and Success in Law School?

Postby wackadoodle » Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:12 pm

I think this decision depends on how you view your law school experience and what you want it to be- are you giving up 3 years of your life to have the best possible job opportunities after? go to the T5- or are you still trying to enjoy the next 3 years? go where you feel more comfortable.

I'm passing on T5 to go to a much lower ranked T14 b/c it felt like a better "fit" and the location was better for my SO but I have the mentality that I cannot give up the next 3 years. That said you will probably enjoy something about wherever you go.




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