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Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:39 pm
by pepsi
Vincent Vega wrote:I voted U of A, but I thought it was the one in Phoenix. I change my vote to ASU.

I think it would have been helpful for respondents if you had told people which school was in which city.

Thanks for the tip. I updated the poll to add the cities.

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:41 pm
by pepsi
Veyron wrote:
EDIT: Also, it seems as if a HUGE portion of the class at ASU ends up funemployed. Don't go unless you are ok with being a legal consultant.

Double edit: Not trolling --> if you could reasonably get a good job out of ASU, I would be going there. Tempe = most awsome place on earth.


agreed about Tempe. I'm trying to balance quality of life with quality of education. Like I said, I absolutely LOVE the Valley, but I want to make sure I balance that with the desire to go to the school for the best employment opps in my fave city.

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:43 pm
by darknightbegins
Veyron wrote:From asking around biglaw cutoff is 10% at U of A, 5% at ASU. Top of class at U of A also has a shot at SOCAL (not that this is an issue for you). Higher meidan starting sallary.

EDIT: Also, it seems as if a HUGE portion of the class at ASU ends up funemployed. Don't go unless you are ok with being a legal consultant.

Double edit: Not trolling --> if you could reasonably get a good job out of ASU, I would be going there. Tempe = most awsome place on earth.


U of A troll

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:54 pm
by aIvin adams
EDIT: Also, it seems as if a HUGE portion of the class at ASU ends up funemployed. Don't go unless you are ok with being a legal consultant.


can you elaborate or provide links? my wife would throw up if she saw this so i have to be prepared to debunk this stat!! :D

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:01 pm
by Veyron
darknightbegins wrote:
Veyron wrote:From asking around biglaw cutoff is 10% at U of A, 5% at ASU. Top of class at U of A also has a shot at SOCAL (not that this is an issue for you). Higher meidan starting sallary.

EDIT: Also, it seems as if a HUGE portion of the class at ASU ends up funemployed. Don't go unless you are ok with being a legal consultant.

Double edit: Not trolling --> if you could reasonably get a good job out of ASU, I would be going there. Tempe = most awsome place on earth.


U of A troll


Dood, I'm prolyoly going to nyu or Penn.

Still, I do troll hard for all things Arizona (the state). I don't mind giving some info to my future competition to help them make good decisions. I think you'll find that our legal. community is not cutthroat but collaborative.

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:12 pm
by msbeautifulbasham
Veyron wrote:From asking around biglaw cutoff is 10% at U of A, 5% at ASU.


From asking who? Where did you pull these stats from?

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:17 pm
by Veyron
From talking to someone on here who is interviewing in the market and 2nd hand from friends who know people at both.

Ps before you site an employment stat remember that working at. micky d's counts as "employed" for these things. Also the median sallary info both schools put out is bull shit.

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:24 pm
by msbeautifulbasham
Veyron, are you planning to seek a job in Phoenix after law school?

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:25 pm
by Veyron
Yep, Phoenix is the future my friend.

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:00 pm
by sanpiero
Veyron wrote:^ If you don't know this, you cannot possibly have an insightful comment into this decision.


+1 better not to vote at all

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:03 pm
by sanpiero
Veyron wrote:EDIT: Also, it seems as if a HUGE portion of the class at ASU ends up funemployed. Don't go unless you are ok with being a legal consultant.


Source? If by "HUGE" you mean less than 30%, then I agree.

Veyron wrote:Tempe = most awsome place on earth.


Great place but let's not go overboard

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:07 pm
by Veyron
sanpiero wrote:
Veyron wrote:EDIT: Also, it seems as if a HUGE portion of the class at ASU ends up funemployed. Don't go unless you are ok with being a legal consultant.


Source? If by "HUGE" you mean less than 30%, then I agree.

Veyron wrote:Tempe = most awsome place on earth.


Great place but let's not go overboard


Fine, I consider 1/4 of the of the class not finding employment as paid lawyers huge expecialy since lots of the others will take temp jobs, legal consulting jobs and the like.

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:09 pm
by pugalicious
I think ASU is the best choice for you.

I've done a similar study as veyron (talked to 3 people from ASU), and 2 of the 3 are recent grads currently making 6-figure salaries in the Phoenix area, while one has moved to, and found employment in, CA. So I guess it depends on who you ask?

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:13 pm
by Veyron
^ Dood, pre ITE samples don't count. Pre ITE top 15 percent from ASU would set you up nicely for immediate 6 figures and top 30% had a good crack as 75-90K starting. Hell, pre ITE the Valley had a lawyer SHORTAGE. Now only 40 biglaw 2L SA positions remain in the city. The recent grads had a very different experience than you likely will. Pre ITE I'd be first in line to be a fucking Sun Devil. You can't live in the past and the recovery will not be fast enough to restore 2007 conditions for 0Ls. We will not have another lawyer shortage for many years to come since AZ's recovery is lagging the nation.

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:17 pm
by Vincent Vega
sanpiero wrote:
Veyron wrote:^ If you don't know this, you cannot possibly have an insightful comment into this decision.


+1 better not to vote at all


This is a forum for students across the country, not just Arizona. Also, the thread title wasn't specific to Arizona, so I decided to look. I voted. Sue me.

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:13 pm
by sanpiero
Veyron wrote:^ Dood, pre ITE samples don't count. Pre ITE top 15 percent from ASU would set you up nicely for immediate 6 figures and top 30% had a good crack as 75-90K starting. Hell, pre ITE the Valley had a lawyer SHORTAGE. Now only 40 biglaw 2L SA positions remain in the city. The recent grads had a very different experience than you likely will. Pre ITE I'd be first in line to be a fucking Sun Devil. You can't live in the past and the recovery will not be fast enough to restore 2007 conditions for 0Ls. We will not have another lawyer shortage for many years to come since AZ's recovery is lagging the nation.


Thanks for all the helpful info ITT, Veyron. I've heard the extremely small number of 2009 2L SA positions thrown around a few times, and 30-50 is usually what I hear. How did you calculate your number? I know 2L OCI didn't go too well here this year and 1L OCI was nearly nonexistent (which is another matter entirely).

FWIW: no question PHX legal market is suffering right now. Director of career services didn't seem too optimistic about 2010 OCI either when we last spoke

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:16 pm
by sanpiero
Vincent Vega wrote:
sanpiero wrote:
Veyron wrote:^ If you don't know this, you cannot possibly have an insightful comment into this decision.


+1 better not to vote at all


This is a forum for students across the country, not just Arizona. Also, the thread title wasn't specific to Arizona, so I decided to look. I voted. Sue me.


I would have a hard time voting in a thread that will likely have at least a small impact on the OP's decision making when I don't even know where the two schools at issue are located, let alone where the school I'm voting for is located. Just sayin

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:19 pm
by Veyron
sanpiero wrote:
Veyron wrote:^ Dood, pre ITE samples don't count. Pre ITE top 15 percent from ASU would set you up nicely for immediate 6 figures and top 30% had a good crack as 75-90K starting. Hell, pre ITE the Valley had a lawyer SHORTAGE. Now only 40 biglaw 2L SA positions remain in the city. The recent grads had a very different experience than you likely will. Pre ITE I'd be first in line to be a fucking Sun Devil. You can't live in the past and the recovery will not be fast enough to restore 2007 conditions for 0Ls. We will not have another lawyer shortage for many years to come since AZ's recovery is lagging the nation.


Thanks for all the helpful info ITT, Veyron. I've heard the extremely small number of 2009 2L SA positions thrown around a few times, and 30-50 is usually what I hear. How did you calculate your number? I know 2L OCI didn't go too well here this year and 1L OCI was nearly nonexistent (which is another matter entirely).

FWIW: no question PHX legal market is suffering right now. Director of career services didn't seem too optimistic about 2010 OCI either when we last spoke



WLCM. Also thank JDUVA2012, he got the info about SA positions by sifting through NALP forms (if I recall correctly).

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:20 pm
by sanpiero
Makes sense^

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:23 pm
by keg411
Midlaw doesn't typically do OCI, though. OP, since you are currently in Phoenix, why not try and get in touch with some attorneys there and see what they think?

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:51 pm
by msbeautifulbasham
sanpiero wrote:
Vincent Vega wrote:
sanpiero wrote:
Veyron wrote:^ If you don't know this, you cannot possibly have an insightful comment into this decision.


+1 better not to vote at all


This is a forum for students across the country, not just Arizona. Also, the thread title wasn't specific to Arizona, so I decided to look. I voted. Sue me.


I would have a hard time voting in a thread that will likely have at least a small impact on the OP's decision making when I don't even know where the two schools at issue are located, let alone where the school I'm voting for is located. Just sayin

Sanpiero- are you an ASU or U of A student?

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:54 pm
by sanpiero
msbeautifulbasham wrote:Sanpiero- are you an ASU or U of A student?


ASU. Accepted to both and chose ASU. Feel free to PM.

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:57 pm
by Vincent Vega
sanpiero wrote:I would have a hard time voting in a thread that will likely have at least a small impact on the OP's decision making when I don't even know where the two schools at issue are located, let alone where the school I'm voting for is located. Just sayin


I was voting based on the OP's preferences and financial situation. This is how most people on here vote on most subjects. Do you honestly think the 43 people (or even just the majority) of people who voted on this actually have first-hand knowledge of the differences between the law schools at Arizona and Arizona State? People can bring valuable input without having detailed information on schools.

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:59 pm
by Veyron
Vincent Vega wrote:
sanpiero wrote:I would have a hard time voting in a thread that will likely have at least a small impact on the OP's decision making when I don't even know where the two schools at issue are located, let alone where the school I'm voting for is located. Just sayin


I was voting based on the OP's preferences and financial situation. This is how most people on here vote on most subjects. Do you honestly think the 43 people (or even just the majority) of people who voted on this actually have first-hand knowledge of the differences between the law schools at Arizona and Arizona State? People can bring valuable input without having detailed information on schools.


Most of the time tho the value of this imput is limited to comments on national or super-regional schools.

Re: POLL Choosin between comparable in-state schools(AZ schools)

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:02 pm
by msbeautifulbasham
Veyron wrote:
Vincent Vega wrote:
sanpiero wrote:I would have a hard time voting in a thread that will likely have at least a small impact on the OP's decision making when I don't even know where the two schools at issue are located, let alone where the school I'm voting for is located. Just sayin


I was voting based on the OP's preferences and financial situation. This is how most people on here vote on most subjects. Do you honestly think the 43 people (or even just the majority) of people who voted on this actually have first-hand knowledge of the differences between the law schools at Arizona and Arizona State? People can bring valuable input without having detailed information on schools.


Most of the time tho the value of this imput is limited to comments on national or super-regional schools.

Good point. Since the financial situation is essentially negligible here and they both feed the same market, the question is focused more toward specific employment opportunities at the two schools.