Top Law Schools

Things I am interested in are clerkship placements, biglaw opportunities, and portability of the degree. I really can't see a difference between Columbia and Chicago, except that living in NY has a much higher "coolness factor" than Hyde Park and Chicago's small class may be beneficial in this economy. Penn is a great school, but it seems to come in a notch below Columbia/Chicago on most important considerations. Also, Philly doesn't sound like the best place to spend three years, but the scholarship definitely makes me think twice.

Any insights into differentiating these three would be great.

Is the slight edge that Columbia or Chicago gives you worth $75k or $45k over 3 years? Think long and hard about it. Given that all three's placement rates at NLJ250 firms are hovering in the 50-55% range, I don't think it's worth passing up the extra scholarship at Penn.

I don't think the difference is that huge. And you're also talking about 3 vastly different schools, Columbia being the biggest. My pick would be between Chicago and Penn. Maybe pit Chicago and Penn against each other to see if one of them will bite and give you more money.

Also think about it: Penn gave you the $75k scholarship because you were supposedly more qualified than the other admits to Penn. If this is true, this means there's a good chance you're smarter than average at Penn, giving you an edge in class rank.

But I think this is a matter of fit. See if you can squeeze some money out of Columbia. The worst they can say is no.

I'd take Chicago and run.
I'd also take CLS at sticker over Penn at 75k, though.

motiontodismiss wrote:Is the slight edge that Columbia or Chicago gives you worth $75k or $45k over 3 years? Think long and hard about it. Given that all three's placement rates at NLJ250 firms are hovering in the 50-55% range, I don't think it's worth passing up the extra scholarship at Penn.

I don't think the difference is that huge. And you're also talking about 3 vastly different schools, Columbia being the biggest. My pick would be between Chicago and Penn. Maybe pit Chicago and Penn against each other to see if one of them will bite and give you more money.

Also think about it: Penn gave you the $75k scholarship because you were supposedly more qualified than the other admits to Penn. If this is true, this means there's a good chance you're smarter than average at Penn, giving you an edge in class rank.

But I think this is a matter of fit. See if you can squeeze some money out of Columbia. The worst they can say is no.

Bolded is garbage. In no way is the LSAT so finely tuned.

soullesswonder wrote:

motiontodismiss wrote:Is the slight edge that Columbia or Chicago gives you worth $75k or $45k over 3 years? Think long and hard about it. Given that all three's placement rates at NLJ250 firms are hovering in the 50-55% range, I don't think it's worth passing up the extra scholarship at Penn.

I don't think the difference is that huge. And you're also talking about 3 vastly different schools, Columbia being the biggest. My pick would be between Chicago and Penn. Maybe pit Chicago and Penn against each other to see if one of them will bite and give you more money.

Also think about it: Penn gave you the $75k scholarship because you were supposedly more qualified than the other admits to Penn. If this is true, this means there's a good chance you're smarter than average at Penn, giving you an edge in class rank.

But I think this is a matter of fit. See if you can squeeze some money out of Columbia. The worst they can say is no.

Bolded is garbage. In no way is the LSAT so finely tuned.

The bolded is so fucking stupid it hurts.

Columbia. I don't think 10K a year is worth it to choose Chicago over CLS. ITE, that 30K is not going to be a huge burden.

Edit to add: People on this board love Chicago so much, that the responses will certainly be biased. I think CLS does everything that Chicago does as well, if not better. Have you tried negotiating with CLS?

I'd consider the 75K at PENN more than the 30K at Chicago. 25K a year is serious money.

I could see 75k pulling someone away from Chicago, but not Columbia.

As far as Columbia vs. Chicago, wouldn't the difference be much more than just the 10k a year scholarship because of COL differences? It seems like you'd save another 10k a year on housing alone by not living in Manhattan. Don't get me wrong, living in NY would be fantastic, but the city adds a significant amount to living expenses and thus to loans making the comparison between the two schools more than just the scholarship difference. Am I wrong in seeing things this way?

CG614 wrote:Columbia. I don't think 10K a year is worth it to choose Chicago over CLS. ITE, that 30K is not going to be a huge burden.

Edit to add: People on this board love Chicago so much, that the responses will certainly be biased. I think CLS does everything that Chicago does as well, if not better. Have you tried negotiating with CLS?

I'd consider the 75K at PENN more than the 30K at Chicago. 25K a year is serious money.

What you "think" differs from "reality." Chicago dominates Columbia in placement into academia and elite clerkships (like SCOTUS), though the gap in the latter has been closing lately. The only area where CLS edges out Chicago is biglaw/elite biglaw placement, but even then the gap is pretty minor and could be (at least in part) due to Chicago's reputation for sending top graduates into academia/clerkships. CLS does, however, have a better LARP if you're looking to get into PI/government work.

(Links: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2428438260 ; http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml ; http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2000 ... erks.shtml ; http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2009 ... hing.shtml )

To answer OP, these were honestly my top 3 choices before the cycle began. If it were CLS/Chicago at sticker vs. Penn at 75k, I would definitely think long and hard about Penn. However, since Chicago is offering you 30k, I would say that is the way to go unless you're looking to get into public interest/government work. In that case, I would go with CLS (great LARP and better opportunity at "elite" PI jobs) or Penn if you just want to minimize debt.

Chicago at 30K off is a great choice. But Penn at 75K off is also a great choice. When you factor in the interest on the loans, we are not talking chump change here. Looks like you have three great choices.

AngryAvocado wrote:

CG614 wrote:Columbia. I don't think 10K a year is worth it to choose Chicago over CLS. ITE, that 30K is not going to be a huge burden.

Edit to add: People on this board love Chicago so much, that the responses will certainly be biased. I think CLS does everything that Chicago does as well, if not better. Have you tried negotiating with CLS?

I'd consider the 75K at PENN more than the 30K at Chicago. 25K a year is serious money.

What you "think" differs from "reality." Chicago dominates Columbia in placement into academia and elite clerkships (like SCOTUS), though the gap in the latter has been closing lately. The only area where CLS edges out Chicago is biglaw/elite biglaw placement, but even then the gap is pretty minor and could be (at least in part) due to Chicago's reputation for sending top graduates into academia/clerkships. CLS does, however, have a better LARP if you're looking to get into PI/government work.

(Links: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2428438260 ; http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml ; http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2000 ... erks.shtml ; http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2009 ... hing.shtml )

To answer OP, these were honestly my top 3 choices before the cycle began. If it were CLS/Chicago at sticker vs. Penn at 75k, I would definitely think long and hard about Penn. However, since Chicago is offering you 30k, I would say that is the way to go unless you're looking to get into public interest/government work. In that case, I would go with CLS (great LARP and better opportunity at "elite" PI jobs) or Penn if you just want to minimize debt.

+1 to all of this with the minor caveat that there are rumblings that Chicago's new LRAP will be unveiled at ASW this year and will be at least worth taking seriously (compared to what they have out there now).

Chicago and Columbia really seem to be a straight up push, so when you introduce money and the difference in COL it seems like the scale at least starts to tip in Chicago's favor.

IMO, it is between Chicago and Penn.

The sticker price + Cost of living at Columbia would be too much (at least, IMO). -unless you REALLY want biglaw, I don't think CLS should be an option.

JollyGreenGiant wrote:IMO, it is between Chicago and Penn.

The sticker price + Cost of living at Columbia would be too much (at least, IMO). -unless you REALLY want biglaw, I don't think CLS should be an option.

Agreed. With two great options with $$, why pay sticker + NYC COL for Columbia? I would personally pick Penn because I'm pretty much TTMAR (especially within the CCNMVPBDCN group). Not having debt and getting a top law school education is of more value than it appears.

AngryAvocado wrote:

CG614 wrote:Columbia. I don't think 10K a year is worth it to choose Chicago over CLS. ITE, that 30K is not going to be a huge burden.

Edit to add: People on this board love Chicago so much, that the responses will certainly be biased. I think CLS does everything that Chicago does as well, if not better. Have you tried negotiating with CLS?

I'd consider the 75K at PENN more than the 30K at Chicago. 25K a year is serious money.

What you "think" differs from "reality." Chicago dominates Columbia in placement into academia and elite clerkships (like SCOTUS), though the gap in the latter has been closing lately. The only area where CLS edges out Chicago is biglaw/elite biglaw placement, but even then the gap is pretty minor and could be (at least in part) due to Chicago's reputation for sending top graduates into academia/clerkships. CLS does, however, have a better LARP if you're looking to get into PI/government work.

(Links: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2428438260 ; http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml ; http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2000 ... erks.shtml ; http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2009 ... hing.shtml )

To answer OP, these were honestly my top 3 choices before the cycle began. If it were CLS/Chicago at sticker vs. Penn at 75k, I would definitely think long and hard about Penn. However, since Chicago is offering you 30k, I would say that is the way to go unless you're looking to get into public interest/government work. In that case, I would go with CLS (great LARP and better opportunity at "elite" PI jobs) or Penn if you just want to minimize debt.

What makes you think that's the case?

disco_barred wrote:

soullesswonder wrote:

motiontodismiss wrote:Is the slight edge that Columbia or Chicago gives you worth $75k or $45k over 3 years? Think long and hard about it. Given that all three's placement rates at NLJ250 firms are hovering in the 50-55% range, I don't think it's worth passing up the extra scholarship at Penn.

I don't think the difference is that huge. And you're also talking about 3 vastly different schools, Columbia being the biggest. My pick would be between Chicago and Penn. Maybe pit Chicago and Penn against each other to see if one of them will bite and give you more money.

Also think about it: Penn gave you the $75k scholarship because you were supposedly more qualified than the other admits to Penn. If this is true, this means there's a good chance you're smarter than average at Penn, giving you an edge in class rank.

But I think this is a matter of fit. See if you can squeeze some money out of Columbia. The worst they can say is no.

Bolded is garbage. In no way is the LSAT so finely tuned.

The bolded is so fucking stupid it hurts.

Hahaha. True and True.

Core wrote:

AngryAvocado wrote:
To answer OP, these were honestly my top 3 choices before the cycle began. If it were CLS/Chicago at sticker vs. Penn at 75k, I would definitely think long and hard about Penn. However, since Chicago is offering you 30k, I would say that is the way to go unless you're looking to get into public interest/government work. In that case, I would go with CLS (great LARP and better opportunity at "elite" PI jobs) or Penn if you just want to minimize debt.

What makes you think that's the case?

Honestly, it just seems like CLS has put a larger emphasis on PI than has Chicago to this point. I hardly think that a Chicago degree will preclude you from elite PI, but I've gotten the impression (from reading USAIRS' and others' posts) that you might have to pave your own path to that end rather than rely career services to do it for you. As Rand pointed out, though, they're rumors that a new LARP (and possibly an invigorated PI focus) will be unveiled at the ASW so this all might be moot anyhow.

Take the money -- Penn.

AngryAvocado wrote:

Core wrote:

AngryAvocado wrote:
To answer OP, these were honestly my top 3 choices before the cycle began. If it were CLS/Chicago at sticker vs. Penn at 75k, I would definitely think long and hard about Penn. However, since Chicago is offering you 30k, I would say that is the way to go unless you're looking to get into public interest/government work. In that case, I would go with CLS (great LARP and better opportunity at "elite" PI jobs) or Penn if you just want to minimize debt.

What makes you think that's the case?

Honestly, it just seems like CLS has put a larger emphasis on PI than has Chicago to this point. I hardly think that a Chicago degree will preclude you from elite PI, but I've gotten the impression (from reading USAIRS' and others' posts) that you might have to pave your own path to that end rather than rely career services to do it for you. As Rand pointed out, though, they're rumors that a new LARP (and possibly an invigorated PI focus) will be unveiled at the ASW so this all might be moot anyhow.

Sorry, I've been watching too much Robot Chicken lately. Personally, I'd take Columbia for the name factor and the fact that the atmosphere sounds more desirable than that of UChi. The 30k makes either school credited, though. 75k at Penn's worth it if you're worried about debt. I've got too active an imagination for that option, and I'd always wonder about the incredibly unlikely might-have-been's that would accompany the top 20% or higher at CLS.

^

Lightning Bolt! (LinkRemoved)

AngryAvocado wrote:^

Lightning Bolt! (LinkRemoved)

Fantastic! I love the girl at the end who cheers the victory.

As someone already mentioned, it sounds like it's really a case of choosing between three right answers. I would go with whatever school "felt" better for you, or what city you want to live in, or other such secondary considerations that might make for a more successful and pleasant law school experience.