19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

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nowinGA
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19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby nowinGA » Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:51 pm

Looking for (constructive) advice. :)

I have been accepted at WashU with a great scholarship, about 75% of tuition. I am currently on the SPWL at GULC and, should I get in, will pay sticker.

I am trying to decide what I will actually decide to do should I get that call from Georgetown. I imagine if/when that happens, I will not have much time to make my choice, so just trying to plan what I will actually do.

On paper, ranking of 14 and 19 seem so close...but in law school land, they seem so far apart with t14 being what it is.

I am interested in going into IP law with a focus on arts and entertainment. I have had a pretty good career in the entertainment industry already (on the GM and producing side) and have great contacts in NYC and DC. What I really want is to get the best possible legal education and be able to use my previous experience, and contacts to get back into my industry on the legal end. As such, I don't feel a super compelling need to be in NYC as I am hoping to use my contacts there to get summer work. (Just throwing this in there because I am not looking for advice that tells me I have to be in NYC...I know it is valuable, but I can't get into this highly a ranked school there...have yet to hear back from Fordham)...

So my question is: Do I really pay sticker at GULC just to have that t14 school in my background? Or can WashU, which seems to be on the rise and place somewhat well nationally, be a a great place to go...a top level school where I have a sweet scholarship.

There is part of me that of course wants GULC, but I fear the $210K in debt.

I'd appreciate any thoughts...and let's just hope I have to make this decision! Come on GULC...get to the SPWLers!

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Hopefullawstudent
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby Hopefullawstudent » Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:54 pm

All you're going to get is opinions. So, here's mine: Go with WashU, do really well, and gun for that East Coast job. You'll feel better knowing that you're not $210K in debt.

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nealric
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby nealric » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:09 pm

It's all about the gamble you want to play.

GULC will roughly double (educated guess) your chance of getting a large firm job. You gamble more money, but for better odds.
Image

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Hopefullawstudent
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby Hopefullawstudent » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:36 pm

nealric wrote:It's all about the gamble you want to play.

GULC will roughly double (educated guess) your chance of getting a large firm job. You gamble more money, but for better odds.
Image


Aye. Am I really going to follow-up here? Yes, I am: Unless your baseline supposition entering law school is that 1L grades are random and unrelated to your performance as a student, then yes, Nealric is correct. Your probability in that case can be reasonably predicted based on prior years' placement statistics (certeris paribus). But call me crazy! I believe that 1L grades are based largely (though certainly not completely) on your performance, effort, and abilities as a student. Thus, if anything, your "probability" of ranking high in your class is A) contingent in part on your performance, effort, and abilities as a student regardless of the school you attend, and B) your "probability" of ranking higher may be actually advantageously boosted by attending a lower ranked school. (Obviously, there are two statistical effects to consider in the latter case: One effect involves your "raw" placement in the class as a 1L relative to your classmates, and the other effect involves how "deep" into the class at your institution top firms are willing to reach. Which of these two effects "wins" will determine whether attending one school over the other was the right move, again, certeris paribus.)

If you read/followed what I wrote, it may have resonated with you. If you did not read/follow what I wrote, just butcher my analysis and I'll let it go. :roll:

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Hopefullawstudent
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby Hopefullawstudent » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:41 pm

Hopefullawstudent wrote:
nealric wrote:It's all about the gamble you want to play.

GULC will roughly double (educated guess) your chance of getting a large firm job. You gamble more money, but for better odds.
Image


Aye. Am I really going to follow-up here? Yes, I am: Unless your baseline supposition entering law school is that 1L grades are random and unrelated to your performance as a student, then yes, Nealric is correct. Your probability in that case can be reasonably predicted based on prior years' placement statistics (certeris paribus). But call me crazy! I believe that 1L grades are based largely (though certainly not completely) on your performance, effort, and abilities as a student. Thus, if anything, your "probability" of ranking high in your class is A) contingent in part on your performance, effort, and abilities as a student regardless of the school you attend, and B) your "probability" of ranking higher may be actually advantageously boosted by attending a lower ranked school. (Obviously, there are two statistical effects to consider in the latter case: One effect involves your "raw" placement in the class as a 1L relative to your classmates, and the other effect involves how "deep" into the class at your institution top firms are willing to reach. Which of these two effects "wins" will determine whether attending one school over the other was the right move, again, certeris paribus.)

If you read/followed what I wrote, it may have resonated with you. If you did not read/follow what I wrote, just butcher my analysis and I'll let it go. :roll:


Take away point from the above rant: I do not believe that the "probabilities" of making BigLaw can be reasonably discussed as Nealric implied above.

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nowinGA
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby nowinGA » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:43 pm

It does resonate.

I guess another way to pose the question is: Is that gap between 14 and 19 as huge as it seems? Would it be, as I perceive, quite different if we were talking about 24 and 29? I know the answer to that.

Thanks, all, for your input. I do appreciate just hearing thoughts...I of course have gone over all of the data and numbers in my head...but alas, it has not led me to any kind of confirmed feeling of what I should do (if given the opportunity, of course.)

I do not personally think the probabilities are quite as cut and dry as we can make them seem. Yet I am here asking advice about which will give me the best shot; perverse, I know. I guess part of the problem is I can't fully define what shot it is that I want at the end and I don't suppose I will truly know that until I am on my way...

sibley
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby sibley » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:45 pm

Deposits at both, figure it out later =)

WashU is less of a risk if you consider the option of transferring to gtown next year. save money...

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nowinGA
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby nowinGA » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:50 pm

sibley wrote:Deposits at both, figure it out later =)

WashU is less of a risk if you consider the option of transferring to gtown next year. save money...



From what I understand, you aren't allowed to do double deposits if you are accepting a scholarship...that said, I probably wont hear from G-town for a while, so hopefully by that point I will have figured out if I want it that badly.

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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby sibley » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:52 pm

nowinGA wrote:
sibley wrote:Deposits at both, figure it out later =)

WashU is less of a risk if you consider the option of transferring to gtown next year. save money...



From what I understand, you aren't allowed to do double deposits if you are accepting a scholarship...that said, I probably wont hear from G-town for a while, so hopefully by that point I will have figured out if I want it that badly.


you're not? well if you're down to those two (I guess you'll know for sure if you are after Wednesday) I say see how you feel about both of them once you hear from gtown. I think spwls usually get in at gtown... but if not, will you go to wustl?

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romothesavior
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby romothesavior » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:00 pm

What? Whose rule is that? I don't think that's a WUSTL rule. I've never heard of such a thing, but correct me if I'm wrong..

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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby sibley » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:04 pm

romothesavior wrote:What? Whose rule is that? I don't think that's a WUSTL rule. I've never heard of such a thing, but correct me if I'm wrong..


I hope to God it's not a standard because I'm on a half dozen waitlists and have 2 scholly schools I want to put down deposits at at this point.

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nowinGA
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby nowinGA » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:05 pm

romothesavior wrote:What? Whose rule is that? I don't think that's a WUSTL rule. I've never heard of such a thing, but correct me if I'm wrong..


Trying to find where I read that...will update this is I find it. Perhaps it was a different school and I am mistaken...hold please...

sibley
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby sibley » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:06 pm

nowinGA wrote:
romothesavior wrote:What? Whose rule is that? I don't think that's a WUSTL rule. I've never heard of such a thing, but correct me if I'm wrong..


Trying to find where I read that...will update this is I find it. Perhaps it was a different school and I am mistaken...hold please...


it can't be wustl... they let you get your deposit back... those two things don't work together...

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nowinGA
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby nowinGA » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:08 pm

sibley wrote:
nowinGA wrote:
romothesavior wrote:What? Whose rule is that? I don't think that's a WUSTL rule. I've never heard of such a thing, but correct me if I'm wrong..


Trying to find where I read that...will update this is I find it. Perhaps it was a different school and I am mistaken...hold please...


it can't be wustl... they let you get your deposit back... those two things don't work together...


Here it is...Second Deposit, my bad...

Scholarship recipients may not have deposits/seat reservations at multiple law schools after the second deposit deadline. Doing so may risk the loss of scholarship from Washington U Law. We cannot keep offers open to recipients throughout the summer due to a limited budget.

sibley
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby sibley » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:11 pm

nowinGA wrote:
sibley wrote:
nowinGA wrote:
romothesavior wrote:What? Whose rule is that? I don't think that's a WUSTL rule. I've never heard of such a thing, but correct me if I'm wrong..


Trying to find where I read that...will update this is I find it. Perhaps it was a different school and I am mistaken...hold please...


it can't be wustl... they let you get your deposit back... those two things don't work together...


Here it is...Second Deposit, my bad...

Scholarship recipients may not have deposits/seat reservations at multiple law schools after the second deposit deadline. Doing so may risk the loss of scholarship from Washington U Law. We cannot keep offers open to recipients throughout the summer due to a limited budget.


k thanks. 2nd's not a big deal... when is that? I think we all understand the paper drowning. last night I piled up everything and squeezed everything from each school into one envelope. then I ordered them into three piles. uninterested.eh. and maybe.

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dood
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby dood » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:30 pm

...
Last edited by dood on Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sibley
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby sibley » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:35 pm

dood wrote:Eh, people tend to think living in a shitty city for 3 years is worth $200K. But I wouldn't go to WUSTL if they gave me a full ride plus an extra $200K in spending money. This is minority opinion of course. But location is definitely also something to consider because 3 years is a long time to be unhappy.


I'm visiting partially to see what I think of the city. But I'm in a smaller one now (st louis has 100k more people) so...improvement, right?

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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby loveistheway » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:46 pm

St. Louis is a great city, depending on what you're looking for. I'd got to Washu (and almost any other similarly ranked school) over the Diploma Mill GeorgeTTTown.

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nowinGA
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby nowinGA » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:56 pm

loveistheway wrote:St. Louis is a great city, depending on what you're looking for.


I am actually excited by the prospect of living in a cute college town...and I know the WashU area is not representative of St. Louis as a whole...that is, I know a of people who think it is a cool place to hang out for a few years. I lived in DC the past 3 years, NYC the 6 before that, and the twin cities the 4 before that...being in a college type town, at an elite school that does not bring along some of the fratty-ness of some schools, is rather enticing. I will find out more when I visit on Wednesday!

Also...the prospect of having my own 1-br apartment for less than $700/month almost makes my head spin...

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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby lsatbdog » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:11 pm

nowinGA wrote:
loveistheway wrote:St. Louis is a great city, depending on what you're looking for.


I am actually excited by the prospect of living in a cute college town...and I know the WashU area is not representative of St. Louis as a whole...that is, I know a of people who think it is a cool place to hang out for a few years. I lived in DC the past 3 years, NYC the 6 before that, and the twin cities the 4 before that...being in a college type town, at an elite school that does not bring along some of the fratty-ness of some schools, is rather enticing. I will find out more when I visit on Wednesday!

Also...the prospect of having my own 1-br apartment for less than $700/month almost makes my head spin...


Who told you that St. Louis is a "cute college town"? Perhaps the area around WashU (and even thats pretty questionable), but the city as a whole is about the furthest thing from that. It's actually pretty similar to the Twin Cities (aside from the weather, and having more crime). And to the poster who is living in a city with 100K less people, almost no one actually lives in the city anymore, the metro area has a population like 4-7 times greater than the city itself.

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nowinGA
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby nowinGA » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:20 pm

lsatbdog wrote:
nowinGA wrote:
loveistheway wrote:St. Louis is a great city, depending on what you're looking for.



Who told you that St. Louis is a "cute college town"? Perhaps the area around WashU, but the city as a whole is about the furthest thing from that. It's actually pretty similiar to the Twin Cities (aside from the weather, and having more crime).


Yes, I am referring to the area around WashU. That was my point, if you read the whole post, it is a unique area even if St. Louis as a whole isn't. And i think the area around the U of MN represents an awesomely cute college town type area...I love it. (And I am comparing this to DC, so I am not sure your crime theory holds)...

Anyway, I will see it for myself on Wed! I tried to make it clear at the top of this thread that I was looking for advice on the schools without considerations like the fact that St. Louis sucks...I will work out that stuff when I visit. I am really just trying to figure out what will be the best choice for me academically...(though I do realize posting on TLS comes with what it comes with...)

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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby lsatbdog » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:43 pm

nowinGA wrote:
lsatbdog wrote:
nowinGA wrote:
loveistheway wrote:St. Louis is a great city, depending on what you're looking for.



Who told you that St. Louis is a "cute college town"? Perhaps the area around WashU, but the city as a whole is about the furthest thing from that. It's actually pretty similiar to the Twin Cities (aside from the weather, and having more crime).


Yes, I am referring to the area around WashU. That was my point, if you read the whole post, it is a unique area even if St. Louis as a whole isn't. And i think the area around the U of MN represents an awesomely cute college town type area...I love it. (And I am comparing this to DC, so I am not sure your crime theory holds)...

Anyway, I will see it for myself on Wed! I tried to make it clear at the top of this thread that I was looking for advice on the schools without considerations like the fact that St. Louis sucks...I will work out that stuff when I visit. I am really just trying to figure out what will be the best choice for me academically...(though I do realize posting on TLS comes with what it comes with...)


Well, you said you were excited about the idea of living in a cute college town, which seemed to be a factor in your decision, so I thought I would comment on that. As for my "crime theory", St. Louis has some of the highest per capita crime rates in the nation.

Not trying to hijack your thread though, so a few thoughts on WashU. WashU has a good rep around here and I got good vibes when I visited, and most people I talked to there seemed happy with their choice and many 1Ls had summer offers (this was back in February). I've talked with a few 3Ls who have solid full-time jobs lined up after graduation, but they noted that there were plenty of people who had bleak prospects. If you are looking to get back to the coasts like you say, WashU can do that, but it will take a lot of legwork (at least in this economy). If you place fairly high, that will obviously go a long way, and you say you already have a solid network, which should also help. I don't know enough about GTown to comment on it, and thus won't try to. Good luck.

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nowinGA
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby nowinGA » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:05 pm

lsatbdog wrote:
Not trying to hijack your thread though, so a few thoughts on WashU. WashU has a good rep around here and I got good vibes when I visited, and most people I talked to there seemed happy with their choice and many 1Ls had summer offers (this was back in February). I've talked with a few 3Ls who have solid full-time jobs lined up after graduation, but they noted that there were plenty of people who had bleak prospects. If you are looking to get back to the coasts like you say, WashU can do that, but it will take a lot of legwork (at least in this economy). If you place fairly high, that will obviously go a long way, and you say you already have a solid network, which should also help. I don't know enough about GTown to comment on it, and thus won't try to. Good luck.


Thanks. Where is the here in "around here?"

lsatbdog
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby lsatbdog » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:17 pm

nowinGA wrote:
lsatbdog wrote:
Not trying to hijack your thread though, so a few thoughts on WashU. WashU has a good rep around here and I got good vibes when I visited, and most people I talked to there seemed happy with their choice and many 1Ls had summer offers (this was back in February). I've talked with a few 3Ls who have solid full-time jobs lined up after graduation, but they noted that there were plenty of people who had bleak prospects. If you are looking to get back to the coasts like you say, WashU can do that, but it will take a lot of legwork (at least in this economy). If you place fairly high, that will obviously go a long way, and you say you already have a solid network, which should also help. I don't know enough about GTown to comment on it, and thus won't try to. Good luck.


Thanks. Where is the here in "around here?"


St. Louis, MO

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nowinGA
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Re: 19WUSTL$$$ vs. 14GULC Sticker

Postby nowinGA » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:18 pm

lsatbdog wrote:
nowinGA wrote:
lsatbdog wrote:
Not trying to hijack your thread though, so a few thoughts on WashU. WashU has a good rep around here and I got good vibes when I visited, and most people I talked to there seemed happy with their choice and many 1Ls had summer offers (this was back in February). I've talked with a few 3Ls who have solid full-time jobs lined up after graduation, but they noted that there were plenty of people who had bleak prospects. If you are looking to get back to the coasts like you say, WashU can do that, but it will take a lot of legwork (at least in this economy). If you place fairly high, that will obviously go a long way, and you say you already have a solid network, which should also help. I don't know enough about GTown to comment on it, and thus won't try to. Good luck.


Thanks. Where is the here in "around here?"


St. Louis, MO


Ah, I missed that. ;)




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