USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which would you choose?

USC ($20k/year scholarship)
47
62%
WUSTL ($20k/year scholarship)
21
28%
IUB (full scholarship)
8
11%
 
Total votes: 76

musicfor18
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USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby musicfor18 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:50 pm

Which would you choose? I want to leave big law open as an option, and would generally like as much portability as possible. I definitely don't want to be forced to stay in the midwest after law school. Please vote and leave your thoughts. Thank you!

musicfor18
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby musicfor18 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:48 pm

Please don't forget to leave your thoughts as well as your vote!

Emboss
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby Emboss » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:17 pm

Looking at placement data, it seems as though USC is best for west coast, while Wustl is better than USC for midwest and east coast. USC places almost exclusively in California. That may be self-selection.

musicfor18
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby musicfor18 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:36 pm

What placement data are you looking at?

Emboss
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby Emboss » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:44 pm

Well USC used to have its data (last year, even) regarding how many students practice outside of California. I can't find this data anywhere on its website now, but I remember that the percentage of students venturing outside of CA from USC was very, very low, and this was a major factor in my decision to attend Wash U over USC. Now, it looks like the only mention of students being placed outside of California is in the Frequently Asked Questions:

"What are my chances of finding a job outside of California after graduating?"

An increasing number of USC Law graduates choose to begin their professional careers outside of California and are successful in doing so. Students who wish to work out of state are encouraged to work closely with a career counselor in the CSO. Counselors help students develop an aggressive long distance job search strategy by focusing on specific resources, such as the legendary USC Alumni Network and reciprocity agreements with other law schools, which have proven successful for past students. In addition, the CSO participates in the Washington, DC and New York Off-Campus Recruitment Programs with other law schools around the country, connecting USC students with legal employers in these cities

Wash U, on the other hand, is extremely open about where its students go, probably because students go just about everywhere except for the west coast:

Wash U:

Our graduates work in the following fields:

Private Practice 65%
Government 12%
Judicial Clerkship 11%
Business 8%
Academics 2%
Military 1%
Public Interest 2%
**************************************************
The Class of 2008 salaries (25th—75% percentile) was:

$55,750—$160,000
**************************************************

**************************************************
Geographical distribution of the Class of 2008:
(due to rounding does not equal 100%)

New England 3%
Mid-Atlantic 14%
East North Central 16%
West North Central 25%
South Atlantic 17%
East South Central 3%
West South Central 6%
Mountain 5%
Pacific 8%
Foreign 4%

musicfor18
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby musicfor18 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:01 pm

Thanks!

lakerfanimal
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby lakerfanimal » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:21 pm

I voted USC. If you haven't visited SC you should- I'm only applying next cycle but visited Tuesday and was thoroughly impressed. The students are surprisingly laid back (almost too laid back haha), the professor whose class I sat in on was incredibly engaging and humble (which I found sort of surprising). The campus is just incredible; the law school building might be the ugliest building but it's reallllly nice inside. If you want to work in So Cal the alumni network is amazing, and job prospects for this economy were better than I expected- one 2L said he was slightly above median with bleak job prospects, another 2L said she's working at her dream firm in the summer and she estimated about 25% of the class got jobs with firms they wanted (maybe a little over, but I remember hearing as low as 10% at UCLA). From what I saw I honestly can't see a school being much more laid back and supportive, this was from the perspective of a visiter who they wanted to impress but still. Good luck!

musicfor18
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby musicfor18 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:26 pm

lakerfanimal wrote:I voted USC. If you haven't visited SC you should- I'm only applying next cycle but visited Tuesday and was thoroughly impressed. The students are surprisingly laid back (almost too laid back haha), the professor whose class I sat in on was incredibly engaging and humble (which I found sort of surprising). The campus is just incredible; the law school building might be the ugliest building but it's reallllly nice inside. If you want to work in So Cal the alumni network is amazing, and job prospects for this economy were better than I expected- one 2L said he was slightly above median with bleak job prospects, another 2L said she's working at her dream firm in the summer and she estimated about 25% of the class got jobs with firms they wanted (maybe a little over, but I remember hearing as low as 10% at UCLA). From what I saw I honestly can't see a school being much more laid back and supportive, this was from the perspective of a visiter who they wanted to impress but still. Good luck!


Where are you from?

lakerfanimal
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby lakerfanimal » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:11 pm

musicfor18 wrote:
lakerfanimal wrote:I voted USC. If you haven't visited SC you should- I'm only applying next cycle but visited Tuesday and was thoroughly impressed. The students are surprisingly laid back (almost too laid back haha), the professor whose class I sat in on was incredibly engaging and humble (which I found sort of surprising). The campus is just incredible; the law school building might be the ugliest building but it's reallllly nice inside. If you want to work in So Cal the alumni network is amazing, and job prospects for this economy were better than I expected- one 2L said he was slightly above median with bleak job prospects, another 2L said she's working at her dream firm in the summer and she estimated about 25% of the class got jobs with firms they wanted (maybe a little over, but I remember hearing as low as 10% at UCLA). From what I saw I honestly can't see a school being much more laid back and supportive, this was from the perspective of a visiter who they wanted to impress but still. Good luck!


Where are you from?


Southern California :)

I'm guessing you're from the midwest since you say you don't want to be forced to stay there, and I could sell you on the merits of living in CA and all that but that's a bigger decision you can probably make later. (I've lived in other places and I love CA)

I'm not sure how well USC does outside California (and I imagine it's not that great) but I remember reading that it does pretty well in Arizona, and it's not insanely difficult to crack the Northern California market either. Other places in the country, the school's reputation definitely won't hurt you but the lack of USC alumni in a place like Illinois may.

solidsnake
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby solidsnake » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:15 pm

'SC.

LA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bumblefuck.

musicfor18
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby musicfor18 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:25 pm

Actually I'm from NYC, but I love California.

lakerfanimal
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby lakerfanimal » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:32 pm

musicfor18 wrote:Actually I'm from NYC, but I love California.


If you love Cali, visit USC, and if you like it as much as I did on tuesday, I'm sure you'll love it there :)

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98234872348
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby 98234872348 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:33 pm

musicfor18 wrote:I definitely don't want to be forced to stay in the midwest after law school. Please vote and leave your thoughts. Thank you!

USC for this reason.

Emboss
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby Emboss » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:59 pm

lakerfanimal wrote:I definitely don't want to be forced to stay in the midwest after law school. Please vote and leave your thoughts. Thank you!

USC for this reason.


I don't think this is right. Do you have any data that backs this up? As the employment statistics I quoted above show, Wustl is a national school. USC's career statistics and lawyer-judge reputation (much lower than Wash U's), on the other hand, suggest that the grads tend to get stuck or stay in California. That's not bad, because California is freaking awesome, but not everyone wants to spend his life there (family, etc.). Don't get me wrong, USC is an elite school and I almost went there. However, one of the things that deterred me is that very few USC grads go to the east coast or to the Midwest, and I didn't want to be forced to choose to live in CA for so long. I wanted a choice.

Self-selection clearly accounts for the large numbers of Wash U grads presently going into Chicago (about 20% of the class), since Wash U is regarded as one of the most prestigious Midwestern schools (undergrad rankings generally go U Chicago, then Wash U, then Northwestern) and a lot of people here want to end up in Chicago. I am actually taking a job on the east coast. Also, the school is getting more national--not less--as time goes on, and the statistics in 3 years are likely to be even more national since the school has recently hired an excellent CSO. I had absolutely no problems getting positions from Boston, DC, and New York City (I ultimately chose this one). I am certainly not at the top of the class here.

I should also note that the previous Wash U placement data was not as national, and I believe this accounts for why some TLS people believe Wash U is not a national school. However, it's clear that--at least for the past couple years--things have changed.

lakerfanimal
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby lakerfanimal » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:07 am

Emboss wrote:
lakerfanimal wrote:I definitely don't want to be forced to stay in the midwest after law school. Please vote and leave your thoughts. Thank you!

USC for this reason.


I don't think this is right. Do you have any data that backs this up? As the employment statistics I quoted above show, Wustl is a national school. USC's career statistics and lawyer-judge reputation (much lower than Wash U's), on the other hand, suggest that the grads tend to get stuck or stay in California. That's not bad, because California is freaking awesome, but not everyone wants to spend his life there (family, etc.). Don't get me wrong, USC is an elite school and I almost went there. However, one of the things that deterred me is that very few USC grads go to the east coast or to the Midwest, and I didn't want to be forced to choose to live in CA for so long. I wanted a choice.

Self-selection clearly accounts for the large numbers of Wash U grads presently going into Chicago (about 20% of the class), since Wash U is regarded as one of the most prestigious Midwestern schools (undergrad rankings generally go U Chicago, then Wash U, then Northwestern) and a lot of people here want to end up in Chicago. I am actually taking a job on the east coast. Also, the school is getting more national--not less--as time goes on, and the statistics in 3 years are likely to be even more national since the school has recently hired an excellent CSO. I had absolutely no problems getting positions from Boston, DC, and New York City (I ultimately chose this one). I am certainly not at the top of the class here.

I should also note that the previous Wash U placement data was not as national, and I believe this accounts for why some TLS people believe Wash U is not a national school. However, it's clear that--at least for the past couple years--things have changed.


I didn't write that, the person above you did.. haha

motiontodismiss
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby motiontodismiss » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:36 am

Wash U. California is a miserable and expensive place to live. Actually it's miserable BECAUSE it's expensive.

Maybe it's me but I'd rather have a reasonable COL than palm trees and good weather.

musicfor18
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby musicfor18 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:17 am

This is going to be tough decision!

musicfor18
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby musicfor18 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:29 am

Bump. I really need help with this decision!

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bigchris1313
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby bigchris1313 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:21 pm

Life in Los Angeles--or elsewhere in the slowly deteriorating pagan paradise of California--isn't for everyone, but if you think you might enjoy such activities as spending too much money, doing cardio, and tanning, you should at least consider it. :twisted:

In all seriousness, I think you need to weigh whether you want to spend your legal career on the West Coast, particularly in Southern California, where USC's sphere of influence is strongest. If you aren't at least fairly certain that you want to spend a good chunk of your life on the Left Coast--more than likely in SoCal--then I'd go for WUSTL because of its greater portability elsewhere. If you decide to throw in your lot with the rest of us, we'd be more than happy to have you (and your everlasting soul). Just kidding.

musicfor18
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby musicfor18 » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:37 am

bigchris1313 wrote:Life in Los Angeles--or elsewhere in the slowly deteriorating pagan paradise of California--isn't for everyone, but if you think you might enjoy such activities as spending too much money, doing cardio, and tanning, you should at least consider it. :twisted:

In all seriousness, I think you need to weigh whether you want to spend your legal career on the West Coast, particularly in Southern California, where USC's sphere of influence is strongest. If you aren't at least fairly certain that you want to spend a good chunk of your life on the Left Coast--more than likely in SoCal--then I'd go for WUSTL because of its greater portability elsewhere. If you decide to throw in your lot with the rest of us, we'd be more than happy to have you (and your everlasting soul). Just kidding.


So, have you decided on USC for sure, then?

canthardlywaitLOL
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby canthardlywaitLOL » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:56 am

Its a beauty at USC and you can be more mobile when you graduate! No brainer. Unless you're a rams fan LOL

musicfor18
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby musicfor18 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:14 am

So, really so few people are advocating going to IUB?

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bigchris1313
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby bigchris1313 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:13 pm

musicfor18 wrote:So, have you decided on USC for sure, then?


Well, that all depends on what I hear from UCLA--though this late in the cycle, I'm not overly optimistic. Furthermore, the CA state budget outlook gives me major pause. If UCLA's administration is predicting tuition increases now that will make UCLA as expensive in-state as USC is by the time I'm graduating in 2013, I shudder to think what the actual tuition increase will be next year and the year after (see: Federal Budget Deficit for the next decade, the ever-increasing size of).

Regardless, I'll be in LA either way next year. At least in the larger Angeleno sense, I'll be happy to welcome the OP.

musicfor18
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby musicfor18 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:32 pm

Yeah, I'm waiting to hear from UCLA, too. I'm not too hopeful.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: USC$ vs. WUSTL$ vs. IUB$$$

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:36 pm

musicfor18 wrote:Which would you choose? I want to leave big law open as an option, and would generally like as much portability as possible. I definitely don't want to be forced to stay in the midwest after law school. Please vote and leave your thoughts. Thank you!


I'm sorry but you have to choose between the midwest and california.

If you know you like one more than the other, go there (WU = midwest and USC = cal).

It really is that simple - I think you should be able to choose between the midwest and california before you decide to go to law school.




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