SLU v SIU $$$

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hundorama
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SLU v SIU $$$

Postby hundorama » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:02 pm

Deciding between these 2 schools, SLU and SIU. Does anyone have any experience with either? SIU will be free tuition and lower COL. SLU is sticker. I would love to end up in St Louis. Would the job prospects coming out of SLU into the St Louis market be so much better than SIU to justify the extra 20-25k a year of debt?

Thanks

LincolnSquare
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby LincolnSquare » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:21 pm

My suggestion would be SLU at sticker. I attended its Admitted Students program last Saturday and was very impressed with the school and its faculty. That being said, if money is a huge concern for you, as it is for me, SIU's offer is quite tempting. I did hear students at the program ask about the possibility of getting a scholarship after your first year if you didn't get any when you applied. The woman from financial aid said that if you didn't get a scholarship upon admission and you finished strong in your first year (I think she said top 10% but I don't quite remember) then you could be offered a scholarship.

Also, SLU guarantees all 3Ls the opportunity to participate in a clinic/internship/externship which I think would interest you if you want to practice in St. Louis.

ndpfn
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby ndpfn » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:25 pm

If you're set on St. Louis, the choice is SLU.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby XxSpyKEx » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:20 am

They are both TTTs, so if you aren't set on biglaw or anything like that, then just take the money at SIU and run. I wouldn't plan on ever moving to a major city leaving that law school (you'll probably end up in southern illinois where there isn't a ton of law grads from other schools aiming to go). But on the bright side southern illinois is a lot warmer than Chicago.

Also, carbondale is a segregated dump, but you can probably make it out with only $30K in debt. That should be manageable even with a $40K /year salary in southern illinois.

Just make sure there isn't a GPA stipulation that requires anything more then being top 75% of the class (because you don't want to run the risk of losing your scholly and paying sticker at a TTT).

EDIT- I am not implying that SLU gives you a chance at biglaw. In fact, your odds of ending up completely jobless are higher by attending SLU because st. louis will be a lot more competitive to find paying legal work then southern illinois.

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romothesavior
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:25 am

I vote SIU. Southern Illinois is a halfway decent T3/T4 school with a good regional presence in southern Illinois. I would only recommend SIU if you can go for cheap, and it sounds like you can.

As far as big law/mid law in STL, I think your odds with SLU and SIU are slim and slimmer, respectively. I would rather graduate with little debt and the possibility of a lower paying job in the lower half of the Illinois than tons of debt and no job period from SLU.

Bottom line: Neither of these schools are going to get you into a decent STL job ITE without being in the upper-crust of your class. I'd take the money.

hundorama
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby hundorama » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:43 am

Are there any websites or studies somewhere that give some imperical evidence to the idea that going to SIU will make it virtually impossible to be employed in St Louis? Same thing with SLU not giving you a good chance at a good job in St Louis?

Thanks

ndpfn
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby ndpfn » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:54 am

Going to SLU will give you a decent chance at getting a good job in St. Louis. Obviously it's all about grades, but the above poster is just wrong about SLU students having "slim" chances about finding a decent job. SLU grads are very well respected in St. Louis, and you'll find them all over the place in.

As for SIU, you'll probably need pretty good grades to gain access to the STL firms, but maybe Belleville is an option.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby XxSpyKEx » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:45 pm

hundorama wrote:Are there any websites or studies somewhere that give some imperical evidence to the idea that going to SIU will make it virtually impossible to be employed in St Louis? Same thing with SLU not giving you a good chance at a good job in St Louis?


Good luck finding anything like this. The last time they did a complete breakdown of how different schools place was 2005: http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf

(I've seen breakdowns for schools that place well in the NJL250 besides this, but that's not really applicable here since neither of those schools do well in the NJL250). You definitely won't be able to find information about the current job prospects because almost all biglaw hiring is done from 2L OCI, which is 2 years prior to graduation and 3 years before they collect data (i.e. they look at where students placed 9 months after graduation).

alllucknotalent
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby alllucknotalent » Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:10 pm

I am facing similar choice.. and I am SIU all the way... my friend has a sweet internship after his first year down there

I am turning down depaul, SLU and NIU... I am W/L at Mizzou and waiting on UIUC/IU... If I were to get into any of those three schools then I might have a harder decision...

OnWisconsin
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby OnWisconsin » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:46 am

First off I will tell you I was in your same boat, $$$ from SIU sticker from SLU.

I don't know where a lot of these people are coming from with their ideas about SLU and SIU being equitable.

First SLU is a tier 1 (meaning top 100, not T14 for those who will start howling about the ranking); SIU is a solidly entrenched Tier 4.

In St. Louis nearly 40% of practicing attorneys are SLU grads, that is a staggering number. You can only assume that having access to that sort of Alumni base will make a difference come job search time, especially if your focus is practicing in St. Louis. Not only that, SLU has a least a modicum of degree portability. If you go with their health law certificate you will have a greater chance of being able to take your degree to other markets, otherwise you might have a bit of hill to climb, but it’s not infeasible that you could venture out from St. Louis to a degree (mid to lower levels in Chicago, and also some OK prospects in Kansas City).

Conversely, SIU has a difficult time even in their home state (bar passage rates, placement etc.) I know from experience that SIU grads are behind a serious 8 ball in and around Chicago, and I can only imagine the same would be true of St. Louis.

Alumni aside SIU is located in Boofoo Egypt, no, literally. They actually pride themselves on being the "Egypt of Illinois" hence the Saluki being their mascot (ancient Egyptian hunting dog). Carbondale is in the middle of nowhere. I can’t stress this enough. In an industry so heavily focused on “who do you know” your prospects are greatly diminished if the answer to that question is “no one”. Conceivably you could fight for some summer positions/internships/externships in St. Louis, but know now that unless you are top in your class (at least top 10 and that’s not % that’s students) you will still perennially be put in line behind the occasional Wash U student that stick around, Mizzou and SLU students, and the odd U of I and KU student that comes back home to St. Louis.

All this being said, yes SLU is expensive I will give you that, however if St. Louis is your ultimate career destination I would suggest that SLU is your best bet. The experiences, and more importantly the contacts that can be made in their clinics and intern/externships (which yes, are guaranteed your 3rd year) will be invaluable for your career.

oldtimer
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby oldtimer » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:30 pm

:twisted:
Last edited by oldtimer on Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby romothesavior » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:14 pm

Holy necro. This thread is over a year old.

OnWisconsin
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby OnWisconsin » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:05 pm

"It's may not be safe to presume that you will have connections simply because you went to SLU... It's still a "Social game" at the end of the day... People have to LIKE you to really want to help you... So perhaps if you're a jerk, you might be surprised how little your "network" actually helps."

Moot point. If your a jerk you're networking will be for naught no matter where you are.

Carbondale is still the middle of nowhere. How are you going to network with no one ( ie viable legal market) around?

St. Louis still has a greater possibility for networking that doesn't rely on; attorneys SIU's career services can coax into coming out to Carbondale to talk to you, your willingness to hop in a car and drive 2 hours to anywhere of significance, your charming telephone voice/stellar social network profile to engage attorneys at arms length.

If you have connections already, great. If not, SLU will be less of an uphill battle in meeting people in the legal market.

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mattviphky
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby mattviphky » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:41 pm

This is where the whole ranking system gets sketchy. maybe slu is a ttt, but does that really mean it is a ttt to the stl market, same with siu. siu might be a t4 on the national level, but within the stl area and central/southern il region it is a reputable school. it may not take you to far off magical places, but it is a good degree for their respective regions. but never, never pay sticker at either. if u got a full ride to siu you probably should be able to get some money out of slu. (if ur living at home, sticker is much more palatable)

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romothesavior
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:11 am

mattviphky wrote:This is where the whole ranking system gets sketchy. maybe slu is a ttt, but does that really mean it is a ttt to the stl market, same with siu. siu might be a t4 on the national level, but within the stl area and central/southern il region it is a reputable school. it may not take you to far off magical places, but it is a good degree for their respective regions. but never, never pay sticker at either. if u got a full ride to siu you probably should be able to get some money out of slu. (if ur living at home, sticker is much more palatable)

Generally agree. Both are respectable in their regions, but I wouldn't attend SLU with less than a full ride. It places a lot of people into St. Louis, but it is a big, expensive school with a lot of students (and a LOT of unemployed students). And I gotta disagree with you about SIU in St. Louis. Very, very few people from SIU work in St. Louis. Maybe some in the metro east area, but I haven't seen or met many SIU peeps in STL.

Also, this thread is a year and a half old. Why are you bumping it?

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mattviphky
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Re: SLU v SIU $$$

Postby mattviphky » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:42 am

i really wasnt trying to bump it, more just trying to give my two cents. I had forum searched slu and this was one of the results. I am in the same situation as the poster in this thread, I have a big scholly to siu and none to slu. However, my big goal is to go to wustl. I retook the lsat this month and I hope that i will be getting a 168+ to make it possible. I don't think I got that high, and I was somewhat sold on going to SIU since my new score will probably net me a full ride, but I just walked around the WUSTL campus again last week and I am just too in love to let it go. maybe if i retake in october i'll just sit somewhere and be study inspired




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