Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

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rockchalk86
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Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby rockchalk86 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:49 pm

I am really confused right now and was wondering what the TLS community thinks about my situation. I am purposely keeping $ out of this thread because I am more concerned with my employment prospects.

I want Biglaw in a major market, but I don't care which market. I would also like to clerk, but would not be devastated if that does not happen.

I love city life, but I am more comfortable in small towns. Would being in my comfort zone help me perform in school?

I am 23 and only have 1 year of work experience, so would I be a little out of my element at Northwestern?

What would y'all do?

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rayiner
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby rayiner » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:51 pm

If you feel more comfortable in small towns, then Michigan. Law school is not the time to leave your comfort zone.

09042014
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:53 pm

rockchalk86 wrote:I am really confused right now and was wondering what the TLS community thinks about my situation. I am purposely keeping $ out of this thread because I am more concerned with my employment prospects.

I want Biglaw in a major market, but I don't care which market. I would also like to clerk, but would not be devastated if that does not happen.

I love city life, but I am more comfortable in small towns. Would being in my comfort zone help me perform in school?

I am 23 and only have 1 year of work experience, so would I be a little out of my element at Northwestern?

What would y'all do?


They are pretty tied for Big Law. But with Penn placing strongly in NYC, NU in Chicago, and Michigan more general.

Mich has a slight edge on clerking, but its slight.

I'd probably go to whichever is cheapest if I were you.

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beesknees
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby beesknees » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:02 pm

They really seem to be peer schools, so you're going to get comparable biglaw placement, with Penn placing probably a little better in northeast and NU in Chigago, etc.

In this type of situation (choosing between close peer school), I think you have the freedom to choose a school based on secondary characteristics, like where you'd like to live for 3 years or $.

Congrats on having such great options!

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rayiner
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby rayiner » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:07 pm

I'd also choose Michigan or Penn if you're interested in a shot at particular NYC V10 firms or DC litigation boutiques. At those reaches Michigan/Penn still seem to have an edge.

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NayBoer
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby NayBoer » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:12 pm

Doesn't matter a whole lot, choose based on COA and preferred market. Or visit them.

The "I like city life but prefer small towns" thing sounds like the way I imagine Ann Arbor, sort of a trendy mid-sized town.

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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:17 pm

NayBoer wrote:Doesn't matter a whole lot, choose based on COA and preferred market. Or visit them.

The "I like city life but prefer small towns" thing sounds like the way I imagine Ann Arbor, sort of a trendy mid-sized town.


You mean it isn't a suburb of Detriot?

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rockchalk86
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby rockchalk86 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:28 pm

Thanks for all the responses! I am leaning slightly towards Michigan, but I want to give these options a fair look. Do you think Michigan's propensity for placing people in PI, Gov and clerkships means that BigLaw may dig deeper into the class than at Penn or NU where almost everyone goes Biglaw if they can?

09042014
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:32 pm

rockchalk86 wrote:Thanks for all the responses! I am leaning slightly towards Michigan, but I want to give these options a fair look. Do you think Michigan's propensity for placing people in PI, Gov and clerkships means that BigLaw may dig deeper into the class than at Penn or NU where almost everyone goes Biglaw if they can?


Are you going to admitted student weekends?

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rockchalk86
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby rockchalk86 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:34 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
rockchalk86 wrote:Thanks for all the responses! I am leaning slightly towards Michigan, but I want to give these options a fair look. Do you think Michigan's propensity for placing people in PI, Gov and clerkships means that BigLaw may dig deeper into the class than at Penn or NU where almost everyone goes Biglaw if they can?


Are you going to admitted student weekends?


I went to Penn on a personal visit and loved it. I also spent time in Chicago and got to see NU while I was there this summer. Michigan ASW on Thurs!

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NayBoer
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby NayBoer » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:34 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Doesn't matter a whole lot, choose based on COA and preferred market. Or visit them.

The "I like city life but prefer small towns" thing sounds like the way I imagine Ann Arbor, sort of a trendy mid-sized town.


You mean it isn't a suburb of Detriot?
Detriot should be the new official spelling.

Philosophical question: can we still say that Detroit has suburbs if there are no Detroit jobs to commute to?

09042014
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:37 pm

NayBoer wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Doesn't matter a whole lot, choose based on COA and preferred market. Or visit them.

The "I like city life but prefer small towns" thing sounds like the way I imagine Ann Arbor, sort of a trendy mid-sized town.


You mean it isn't a suburb of Detriot?
Detriot should be the new official spelling.

Philosophical question: can we still say that Detroit has suburbs if there are no Detroit jobs to commute to?


Great point. But University of Michigan Detriot West Surburbs sounds good.

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beesknees
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby beesknees » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:37 pm

NayBoer wrote:Philosophical question: can we still say that Detroit has suburbs if there are no Detroit jobs to commute to?


+1

I visited Detroit after Michigan's ASW. There were literally 6 cars... ok, not really, but it was very depressing as it seems like the city was desolate. It was cold and rainy, though.

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stratocophic
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby stratocophic » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:03 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Doesn't matter a whole lot, choose based on COA and preferred market. Or visit them.

The "I like city life but prefer small towns" thing sounds like the way I imagine Ann Arbor, sort of a trendy mid-sized town.


You mean it isn't a suburb of Detriot?

I thought this was a mistake at first, thanks for pointing that out nayboer. I'll never underestimate DF's ability to create lulz again.

09042014
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:24 pm

stratocophic wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Doesn't matter a whole lot, choose based on COA and preferred market. Or visit them.

The "I like city life but prefer small towns" thing sounds like the way I imagine Ann Arbor, sort of a trendy mid-sized town.


You mean it isn't a suburb of Detriot?

I thought this was a mistake at first, thanks for pointing that out nayboer. I'll never underestimate DF's ability to create lulz again.


To be fair my posts are so riddled with typos that it was a good bet.

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stratocophic
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby stratocophic » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:03 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Doesn't matter a whole lot, choose based on COA and preferred market. Or visit them.

The "I like city life but prefer small towns" thing sounds like the way I imagine Ann Arbor, sort of a trendy mid-sized town.


You mean it isn't a suburb of Detriot?

I thought this was a mistake at first, thanks for pointing that out nayboer. I'll never underestimate DF's ability to create lulz again.


To be fair my posts are so riddled with typos that it was a good bet.

:lol: and that's why I assumed it to be a mistake... engineer English FTW.

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doinmybest
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby doinmybest » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:42 am

rockchalk86 wrote:Thanks for all the responses! I am leaning slightly towards Michigan, but I want to give these options a fair look. Do you think Michigan's propensity for placing people in PI, Gov and clerkships means that BigLaw may dig deeper into the class than at Penn or NU where almost everyone goes Biglaw if they can?


Also going to Michigan ASW this weekend. I would love an answer to this question if anyone has it. I'm trying to decide if sticker is worth it.

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rayiner
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby rayiner » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:27 pm

doinmybest wrote:
rockchalk86 wrote:Thanks for all the responses! I am leaning slightly towards Michigan, but I want to give these options a fair look. Do you think Michigan's propensity for placing people in PI, Gov and clerkships means that BigLaw may dig deeper into the class than at Penn or NU where almost everyone goes Biglaw if they can?


Also going to Michigan ASW this weekend. I would love an answer to this question if anyone has it. I'm trying to decide if sticker is worth it.


0L's need to get over this conception that there is a magic boundary at each school, on one side of which biglaw is a guarantee and on the other side of which biglaw is impossible. In reality, the year-to-year fluctuation of placement, which will depend on peoples' preferences, etc, is probably bigger than the placement differences between the schools.

Firms do have GPA cut-offs for each school, but they don't vary in the way you'd think. Some Chicago firms, eg: Kirkland, hire just as many folks from NU as from U Chicago. A few DC firms, in contrast, seem to want to rather have a GWU grad than an NU grad. The only consistent trend that'd really lean one way or the other is that NU is strongest in Chicago, Penn is strongest in NYC, and Michigan seems to have pretty broad placement. Also, Michigan and particularly Penn are stronger in the most elite NYC V10 firms.

If you just want a big firm job... it's pretty much a wash. From any school, you would have probably a 1/2 chance of getting a biglaw job had you done OCI in 2009. For your class nobody knows how it'll be, but it'll certainly be at least a little better unless the economy starts trending the other way and gets worse. Between the three schools, you should really let market/fit guide your selection. 5% differences in biglaw placement aren't going to mark the boundary from "worth sticker" and "not worth sticker", and in any case other differences (your own better performance due to being at a place you're happier, the vagaries of each of the primary markets targeted by each school, etc) is going to totally swamp that difference.

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doinmybest
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby doinmybest » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:27 pm

rayiner wrote: 5% differences in biglaw placement aren't going to mark the boundary from "worth sticker" and "not worth sticker", and in any case other differences (your own better performance due to being at a place you're happier, the vagaries of each of the primary markets targeted by each school, etc) is going to totally swamp that difference.


rayiner:

Excellent post. Thank you for being honest and straightforward. IIRC your regional preferences are similar to mine. I would like to come back to Atlanta if possible. However, for me the difference in placement is not 5%, it's more like 15-36% depending on which school I chose. I'm chosing between Michigan at sticker, Texas with $$ and UGA with $$$$.

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rayiner
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby rayiner » Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:01 pm

doinmybest wrote:
rayiner wrote: 5% differences in biglaw placement aren't going to mark the boundary from "worth sticker" and "not worth sticker", and in any case other differences (your own better performance due to being at a place you're happier, the vagaries of each of the primary markets targeted by each school, etc) is going to totally swamp that difference.


rayiner:

Excellent post. Thank you for being honest and straightforward. IIRC your regional preferences are similar to mine. I would like to come back to Atlanta if possible. However, for me the difference in placement is not 5%, it's more like 15-36% depending on which school I chose. I'm chosing between Michigan at sticker, Texas with $$ and UGA with $$$$.


For Atlanta biglaw I'd go to Michigan.

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doinmybest
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Re: Michigan v Penn v Northwestern?

Postby doinmybest » Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:51 pm

rayiner wrote:For Atlanta biglaw I'd go to Michigan.


I'm inclined to believe you're right about this one. It's tough turning down the schollys though. I hope michigan ASW will help me decide.




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