Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

What should I choose?

Michigan
64
72%
Virginia
25
28%
 
Total votes: 89

td6624
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby td6624 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:40 pm

Rocketman11 wrote:
td6624 wrote:
thickfreakness wrote:
Ideological diversity, what a scary thing!


As someone who's spent four years in a place where large numbers of students (and the administration, coincidentally) feel as though the school has a right to discriminate against me and that my "lifestyle"
is likely sending me to hell (and somewhere where sex is treated as though it doesn't exist and gender relations are terrible and strained), I feel comfortable in saying that everyone has a limit to the amount of "diversity" that won't negatively effect his or her educational experience.


Extreme example that I don't think anyone was arguing against...


My point is that it's not something to dismiss, as people's thresholds for this sort of thing vary. I certainly did not think my undergrad institution was going to be as extreme as it turned out to be. I didn't inform myself properly, and I don't think it's wrong to take it into consideration.

But as a top academic institution with no religious ties, it probably is safe to assume that UVA wouldn't pose much of a problem. Although a friend's father who attended UVA warned me that as a progressive, I'd be more comfortable elsewhere (not that I'm assuming I'd have gotten into UVA. Just sayin'). But of course he went there a while ago so I imagine it's a bit different.

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RVP11
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby RVP11 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:41 pm

jakeoooh wrote:I say Michigan. You seem to have a preference for it, and the difference in cost isn't big enough to make UVA a no-brainer. If it was $20 or $30k a year then it'd be obvious to follow the money, but $8k isn't a huge difference in the grand scheme of things. Plus, not that it's worth anything, but I think Michigan has a bit more lay-prestige.


I agree with you that Michigan is probably the right choice given OP's preferences, but if lay prestige isn't worth anything, let's stop mentioning it in every Choosing a Law School thread, mmkay?

Amelie
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby Amelie » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:43 pm

td6624 wrote:
Rocketman11 wrote:
td6624 wrote:
thickfreakness wrote:
Ideological diversity, what a scary thing!


As someone who's spent four years in a place where large numbers of students (and the administration, coincidentally) feel as though the school has a right to discriminate against me and that my "lifestyle"
is likely sending me to hell (and somewhere where sex is treated as though it doesn't exist and gender relations are terrible and strained), I feel comfortable in saying that everyone has a limit to the amount of "diversity" that won't negatively effect his or her educational experience.


Extreme example that I don't think anyone was arguing against...


My point is that it's not something to dismiss, as people's thresholds for this sort of thing vary. I certainly did not think my undergrad institution was going to be as extreme as it turned out to be. I didn't inform myself properly, and I don't think it's wrong to take it into consideration.

But as a top academic institution with no religious ties, it probably is safe to assume that UVA wouldn't pose much of a problem. Although a friend's father who attended UVA warned me that as a progressive, I'd be more comfortable elsewhere (not that I'm assuming I'd have gotten into UVA. Just sayin'). But of course he went there a while ago so I imagine it's a bit different.


To be honest, I met two separate people who had worked for the American Enterprise Institute, and another for Laura Bush, and that worried me a bit. I know it's ridiculous to get an impression of a school based on 3 people, but that's what I saw...

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RVP11
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby RVP11 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:44 pm

I guarantee you that under 50% of the study body could rightly be judged "conservative." Are you just looking for a heavier majority of liberals?

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Puffy
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby Puffy » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:45 pm

I might add that it's not ideological issues that will grate on you but the general lack of culture and the parvenu attitude.

Oh, and JUVA, sorry to dump on your school, but it's my alma mater too, and I know from experience that disappearing into your circle and blocking out the university and the town is simply not an option.
Last edited by Puffy on Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rocketman11
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby Rocketman11 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:45 pm

Amelie wrote:
To be honest, I met two separate people who had worked for the American Enterprise Institute, and another for Laura Bush, and that worried me a bit. I know it's ridiculous to get an impression of a school based on 3 people, but that's what I saw...


how can you hate laura bush?? geez. she was so nice, tried to promote reading in kids, was very classy and elegant, and said fewer controversial things in 8 years than Michelle Obama did in 1.

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RVP11
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby RVP11 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:47 pm

Puffy wrote:I might add that it's not ideological issues that will grate on you but the general lack of culture and the parvenu attitude.


You did not attend the law school.

Amelie
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby Amelie » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:50 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:I guarantee you that under 50% of the study body could rightly be judged "conservative." Are you just looking for a heavier majority of liberals?


Maybe. But it's not like I'm going around discussing politics all of the time haha (or ever really). I think it's more the overall culture (even the so-called "frattyness"). And even if it's not a majority, an outspoken conservative group could just bother me (probably even more since I'm not outspoken) - so I would just not say anything but be silently bothered haha. If I liked UVA more in every aspect the political thing would be less of an issue... but I think it's just another thing that makes me prefer Michigan.

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RVP11
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby RVP11 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:50 pm

Puffy wrote:I might add that it's not ideological issues that will grate on you but the general lack of culture and the parvenu attitude.

Oh, and JUVA, sorry to dump on your school, but it's my alma mater too, and I know from experience that disappearing into your circle and blocking out the university and the town is simply not an option.


The town is one of the most liberal places in VA (I know that's not necessarily saying a lot, but OP seems concerned with the politics of the place). The university, like most other universities, is full of liberals.

And you and I did not go to the same school. You're acting as if you're speaking from personal knowledge when you have none re: the culture of the law school. Law schools are often not nearly as douchey as the universities they're attached to. See Duke, NYU.

Amelie
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby Amelie » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:52 pm

Rocketman11 wrote:
Amelie wrote:
To be honest, I met two separate people who had worked for the American Enterprise Institute, and another for Laura Bush, and that worried me a bit. I know it's ridiculous to get an impression of a school based on 3 people, but that's what I saw...


how can you hate laura bush?? geez. she was so nice, tried to promote reading in kids, was very classy and elegant, and said fewer controversial things in 8 years than Michelle Obama did in 1.



Haha I don't hate Laura Bush... I actually like her! It just added to overall feel I got

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RVP11
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby RVP11 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:57 pm

Amelie wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:I guarantee you that under 50% of the study body could rightly be judged "conservative." Are you just looking for a heavier majority of liberals?


Maybe. But it's not like I'm going around discussing politics all of the time haha (or ever really). I think it's more the overall culture (even the so-called "frattyness"). And even if it's not a majority, an outspoken conservative group could just bother me (probably even more since I'm not outspoken) - so I would just not say anything but be silently bothered haha. If I liked UVA more in every aspect the political thing would be less of an issue... but I think it's just another thing that makes me prefer Michigan.


I think what you're getting at is you just liked the general feel of Michigan more than UVA. Totally understandable.

The only thing that bothers me is when people transform "I didn't like UVA" into "UVA is homogenous, fratty, conservative" or the like. We are possibly the most politically diverse law school in the country, and only trail a handful of law schools in terms of geographic diversity. And the school is clearly working hard at bringing in more racial diversity.

I will say that there is no outspoken conservative group here. We have FedSoc, but nearly every school has FedSoc. We also have ACS, just as every school has ACS. Generally the vibe around the school is happy and communal, with little discussion of politics except for the near-universal bashing of Virginia AG Ken Cuccinelli.

Amelie
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby Amelie » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:58 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
Puffy wrote:I might add that it's not ideological issues that will grate on you but the general lack of culture and the parvenu attitude.

Oh, and JUVA, sorry to dump on your school, but it's my alma mater too, and I know from experience that disappearing into your circle and blocking out the university and the town is simply not an option.


The town is one of the most liberal places in VA (I know that's not necessarily saying a lot, but OP seems concerned with the politics of the place). The university, like most other universities, is full of liberals.

And you and I did not go to the same school. You're acting as if you're speaking from personal knowledge when you have none re: the culture of the law school. Law schools are often not nearly as douchey as the universities they're attached to. See Duke, NYU.


I definitely did not get a "douchey" feel from the students, they were all incredibly nice. And I think I could easily be happy there, but I just think Michigan is maybe a better fit. I definitely have nothing against the school or students!

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Puffy
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby Puffy » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:00 pm

Interestingly enough, I am flying to Charlottesville tomorrow for a three day conference. JSUVA can you confirm that it's sweater and douchebag weather?

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D Brooks
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby D Brooks » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:04 pm

OP - I have a T14 dilemma as well and I've resorted to cold-calling the recruitment dept of various V20 in Chicago, NYC, and DC and soliciting advice from them. Surprisingly, at the 4 firms I've called so far they've all had someone willing to speak with me.

Edit: You should only do this if you're worried about placement opportunities vs. debt. That's pretty much the question I've been asking.
Last edited by D Brooks on Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rocketman11
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby Rocketman11 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:06 pm

In short, OP wants us all to talk her into Michigan. Without a game-changing difference to be brought to light, which there is none, we can't help you much. Just go to mich lol.

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D Brooks
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby D Brooks » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:07 pm

Rocketman11 wrote:In short, OP wants us all to talk her into Michigan. Without a game-changing difference to be brought to light, which there is none, we can't help you much. Just go to mich lol.


Although I'm biased, if I had OP's decision to make I'd go to Michigan in a heartbeat.

Amelie
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby Amelie » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:09 pm

Rocketman11 wrote:In short, OP wants us all to talk her into Michigan. Without a game-changing difference to be brought to light, which there is none, we can't help you much. Just go to mich lol.


You got me there :wink: I always like the input though... it helps me to justify my own decisions!

09042014
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:10 pm

D Brooks wrote:
Rocketman11 wrote:In short, OP wants us all to talk her into Michigan. Without a game-changing difference to be brought to light, which there is none, we can't help you much. Just go to mich lol.


Although I'm biased, if I had OP's decision to make I'd go to Michigan in a heartbeat.


Well it is your faux Alma mater.

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Rocketman11
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby Rocketman11 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:12 pm

Amelie wrote:
Rocketman11 wrote:In short, OP wants us all to talk her into Michigan. Without a game-changing difference to be brought to light, which there is none, we can't help you much. Just go to mich lol.


You got me there :wink: I always like the input though... it helps me to justify my own decisions!


Plis we wil have a great long distance relationship. I am in michigan about 6 times a year, and when I'm not in michigan I'm in DC. We can trade months for weekend visits.

Amelie
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby Amelie » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:15 pm

Rocketman11 wrote:
Amelie wrote:
Rocketman11 wrote:In short, OP wants us all to talk her into Michigan. Without a game-changing difference to be brought to light, which there is none, we can't help you much. Just go to mich lol.


You got me there :wink: I always like the input though... it helps me to justify my own decisions!


Plis we wil have a great long distance relationship. I am in michigan about 6 times a year, and when I'm not in michigan I'm in DC. We can trade months for weekend visits.


Haha it's a deal

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Rocketman11
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby Rocketman11 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:16 pm

Amelie wrote:
Rocketman11 wrote:
Amelie wrote:
Rocketman11 wrote:In short, OP wants us all to talk her into Michigan. Without a game-changing difference to be brought to light, which there is none, we can't help you much. Just go to mich lol.


You got me there :wink: I always like the input though... it helps me to justify my own decisions!


Plis we wil have a great long distance relationship. I am in michigan about 6 times a year, and when I'm not in michigan I'm in DC. We can trade months for weekend visits.


Haha it's a deal


:!: :!: i just jizzed in my pants. stokeddd.

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flyingpanda
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby flyingpanda » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:43 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
D Brooks wrote:
Rocketman11 wrote:In short, OP wants us all to talk her into Michigan. Without a game-changing difference to be brought to light, which there is none, we can't help you much. Just go to mich lol.


Although I'm biased, if I had OP's decision to make I'd go to Michigan in a heartbeat.


Well it is your faux Alma mater.


LOL

jh60405
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby jh60405 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:52 pm

Let's remember that Virginia did vote for Obama this past election, now that's not normal but if you look at the political history of the state you will see quite a few democrats in the state legislature, US Congress, Senate, etc. Its not like we're talking about Mississippi here. And again UVA is without question more left than the general population of VA. I'm quite positive that UVA and Charlottsivlle are in fact left of the average US citizen. Granted its to the right of the average person living in New York or San Francisco.

yourdadcalled
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby yourdadcalled » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:27 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
jakeoooh wrote:I say Michigan. You seem to have a preference for it, and the difference in cost isn't big enough to make UVA a no-brainer. If it was $20 or $30k a year then it'd be obvious to follow the money, but $8k isn't a huge difference in the grand scheme of things. Plus, not that it's worth anything, but I think Michigan has a bit more lay-prestige.


I agree with you that Michigan is probably the right choice given OP's preferences, but if lay prestige isn't worth anything, let's stop mentioning it in every Choosing a Law School thread, mmkay?


UVA butthurt

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flyingpanda
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Re: Am I Crazy? I Need Input - UVA $$$ vs. Mich $$

Postby flyingpanda » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:49 pm

yourdadcalled wrote:UVA butthurt


Meh.. I agree on this lay prestige thing. Why are people so fixated on it? Who cares which school is going to impress non-legal people more? Besides, lay prestige changes depending on which part of the country you're in.




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