Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

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rando
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby rando » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:55 pm

twintipping_bumps wrote:
OP: Promise me that you will not make a law school decision on either;
1 - Emory's possible rise in future reputation
2 - Uneducated people's reactions in social circumstances


I wish I could make that promise, but I went to a UG and Grad Program that both were really good and have done me well but get sort of odd responses when mentioned. Emory, to me in New England, is like a Pomona: if you are aware of schools you know it is great; otherwise, you have never heard of it. Tulane, on the other hand, has the popular culture references and New Orleans mystique. So while I am leaning towards making my decision based on job prospects, where Emory wins, my previous experiences leave me somewhat hesitant.[/quote]

I think the most intelligent and well thought out response to the question of where to go to school can be summed up fairly succinctly. Balance a school that you would be happy graduating at the median of the class with the scholarship $ offered. While you are not speaking specifically about ranking/performance, integrating a rise in prestige/ranking with your decision is probably not a good idea.
As far as lay prestige. It is unimportant to job prospects, which ITE should be what you are looking at. So, two conflicting answers on where you should ultimately consider, Emory vs. Tulane, but both of which you should think about.

twintipping_bumps
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby twintipping_bumps » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:57 pm

rando wrote:
Jules Winnfield wrote:
rad law wrote:
Jules Winnfield wrote:Not if UGA continues to give Emory a run for its money in terms of employment prospects and lower tuition.


If you want to work in GA sure, but outside, I'd take Emory any day, not for full price though. Also, that letter UGA's Dean sent out begging firms to hire their grads is not a good sign.


Well, in terms of national placement, you're correct. I was speaking mainly from the perspective of an in-state applicant.

However, while Emory is better for national placement, one must admit that it struggles placing students nationally---and you'll be hard pressed to find Emory grads out west, in the midwest or even up north (save NY---barely).



Anecdotal - I know several people working in LA this summer. I interviewed at several well respected firms in SoCal. At one, the two people across the table were Emory Grads. Hiring partner + junior partner. Not perfect evidence, not hard pressed either.
BTW, NY is not barely. FWIW.


Los Angeles is where I want to be. I don't think I am going to take the full ride at Chapman and haven't heard from UCLA, so I am wondering how well Emory will do me in film circles. But also, if a good school put me on another track for ten years, I would follow it, which is to say: I would be willing to stay in Atlanta.
Last edited by twintipping_bumps on Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

rando
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby rando » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:58 pm

Jules Winnfield wrote:
How does Emory place in NY? I'm curious to know because I've heard it has struggled in NY. Even students from there have told me. But I ask in all sincerity and interest.


I am not sure how to answer this question. I don't have the numbers. I am not sure if they exist. Maybe they do. But every year, there is an Emory in NY hiring fair in NYC hosted by the major NY firms. Every year, a significant number of Emory grads go to work in NY. Significant=5-10%??? While that is not a large number, it is when you consider the distance from Atlanta to NY.

rando
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby rando » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:58 pm

twintipping_bumps wrote:
Anecdotal - I know several people working in LA this summer. I interviewed at several well respected firms in SoCal. At one, the two people across the table were Emory Grads. Hiring partner + junior partner. Not perfect evidence, not hard pressed either.
BTW, NY is not barely. FWIW.

Los Angeles is where I want to be. I don't think I am going to take the full ride at Chapman and haven't heard from UCLA, so I am wondering how well Emory will do me in film circles.


You will have to do VERY well first year. top 10%
Last edited by rando on Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

twintipping_bumps
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby twintipping_bumps » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:02 pm

It's probably time to really buckle down, I suppose.

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Puffy
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby Puffy » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:03 pm

twintipping_bumps wrote:It's probably time to really buckle down, I suppose.


Or reapply next year and try to get in to UCLA or USC.

twintipping_bumps
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby twintipping_bumps » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:06 pm

I haven't heard from UCLA yet.

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Cosmo Kramer
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:53 am

FWIW less than 50% of emory grads take the GA bar, so to say it "struggles" to place in GA compared to UGA is a bit off. More like they choose not to place themselves in GA, while UGA has no choice.

twintipping_bumps
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby twintipping_bumps » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:55 pm

Given what I've read, I tend to agree with the above. Many people seem to suggest that UGA is a pure school for Atlanta and thus favored by employers in Atlanta, yet I think it makes sense that a more "national" school would attract more students that simply choose to focus on finding work elsewhere. The question for me is: how does the Emory name help such people now and how will it in the future?

musicfor18
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby musicfor18 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:03 pm

twintipping_bumps wrote: Has Emory just been throwing money at applicants to raise numbers and climb the Law Rankings the past four years


I can tell you they didn't throw even one dollar at me this year! I am above their 75% of LSAT and right at the 75% of GPA and they offered me $0 scholarship. It was a deal-breaker!

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Grizz
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby Grizz » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:15 pm

musicfor18 wrote:
twintipping_bumps wrote: Has Emory just been throwing money at applicants to raise numbers and climb the Law Rankings the past four years


I can tell you they didn't throw even one dollar at me this year! I am above their 75% of LSAT and right at the 75% of GPA and they offered me $0 scholarship. It was a deal-breaker!


Did you apply late?

musicfor18
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby musicfor18 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:31 pm

rad law wrote:
musicfor18 wrote:
twintipping_bumps wrote: Has Emory just been throwing money at applicants to raise numbers and climb the Law Rankings the past four years


I can tell you they didn't throw even one dollar at me this year! I am above their 75% of LSAT and right at the 75% of GPA and they offered me $0 scholarship. It was a deal-breaker!


Did you apply late?


I applied late January.

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Cosmo Kramer
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:38 pm

musicfor18 wrote:
twintipping_bumps wrote: Has Emory just been throwing money at applicants to raise numbers and climb the Law Rankings the past four years


I can tell you they didn't throw even one dollar at me this year! I am above their 75% of LSAT and right at the 75% of GPA and they offered me $0 scholarship. It was a deal-breaker!


I feel your pain, I applied March 1 and got $0 with numbers above both 75ths. As someone else mentioned, according to the LSN graphs and their stats from the class of 2012 they are determined to keep raising their LSAT numbers by a point each year.

musicfor18
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby musicfor18 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:27 pm

Cosmo Kramer wrote:
musicfor18 wrote:
twintipping_bumps wrote: Has Emory just been throwing money at applicants to raise numbers and climb the Law Rankings the past four years


I can tell you they didn't throw even one dollar at me this year! I am above their 75% of LSAT and right at the 75% of GPA and they offered me $0 scholarship. It was a deal-breaker!


I feel your pain, I applied March 1 and got $0 with numbers above both 75ths. As someone else mentioned, according to the LSN graphs and their stats from the class of 2012 they are determined to keep raising their LSAT numbers by a point each year.


Then wouldn't they want to offer us some money since we'd help raise their LSAT numbers?

rando
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby rando » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:35 pm

musicfor18 wrote:
Cosmo Kramer wrote:
musicfor18 wrote:
twintipping_bumps wrote: Has Emory just been throwing money at applicants to raise numbers and climb the Law Rankings the past four years


I can tell you they didn't throw even one dollar at me this year! I am above their 75% of LSAT and right at the 75% of GPA and they offered me $0 scholarship. It was a deal-breaker!


I feel your pain, I applied March 1 and got $0 with numbers above both 75ths. As someone else mentioned, according to the LSN graphs and their stats from the class of 2012 they are determined to keep raising their LSAT numbers by a point each year.


Then wouldn't they want to offer us some money since we'd help raise their LSAT numbers?


Might have their expected top 75% filled or have doled out the allotted scholarship funds for the year.

sdv
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby sdv » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:50 pm

maximus34998 wrote:I tend to look at Emory in a group of schools that are the really strong regional schools. I think there is a good chance that 19-25 or so will fluctuate pretty often from year to year for the forseeable future, with WUSTL, Emory, BU, Minnesota, Illinois, Notre Dame, GW among that group. These are schools that place best in their respective regions and have some national reach, but not too much. I don't see any of these schools passing USC for 18, or dropping below 25 either. If you're choosing among these schools, it's got to be a regional decision and a financial decision.



All of this. This is the answer. The schools above this group are national schools with national reputations, this group is the best of the best of the regional schools. Unless Emory becomes a school with a truly national reach they won't be able to break out of this group, and I don't see them coming close to overtaking Vanderbilt any time soon, especially with their reputation as far apart as they are among judges and lawyers in the Southeast.

Also, for those complaining about scholarship $, Emory has a strong reputation for targeting those between the 50th-75th percentiles with overly generous offers and ignoring those with numbers far above that. It's insulting, for sure, but don't take it personally. I think it's a pretty defeatist attitude, myself, but I suppose it's a formula that works for them. If your numbers are that high, go to Vandy!

eldizknee
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby eldizknee » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:51 pm

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Last edited by eldizknee on Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

musicfor18
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby musicfor18 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:22 pm

sdv wrote:
maximus34998 wrote:I tend to look at Emory in a group of schools that are the really strong regional schools. I think there is a good chance that 19-25 or so will fluctuate pretty often from year to year for the forseeable future, with WUSTL, Emory, BU, Minnesota, Illinois, Notre Dame, GW among that group. These are schools that place best in their respective regions and have some national reach, but not too much. I don't see any of these schools passing USC for 18, or dropping below 25 either. If you're choosing among these schools, it's got to be a regional decision and a financial decision.



All of this. This is the answer. The schools above this group are national schools with national reputations, this group is the best of the best of the regional schools. Unless Emory becomes a school with a truly national reach they won't be able to break out of this group, and I don't see them coming close to overtaking Vanderbilt any time soon, especially with their reputation as far apart as they are among judges and lawyers in the Southeast.

Also, for those complaining about scholarship $, Emory has a strong reputation for targeting those between the 50th-75th percentiles with overly generous offers and ignoring those with numbers far above that. It's insulting, for sure, but don't take it personally. I think it's a pretty defeatist attitude, myself, but I suppose it's a formula that works for them. If your numbers are that high, go to Vandy!


I would love to go to Vanderbilt! But my numbers may be just a bit too low, especially since I didn't apply early. Haven't gotten a decision yet.

twintipping_bumps
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby twintipping_bumps » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:05 pm

So getting back to the rankings. Emory is now ranked #22, so it can't be really called a top 20. It's UG is an impressive #17, with Brown and Cornell on one side and Berkeley and Georgetown on the other. For UG, it's been ranked as high as #9, though that appears to be an anomaly in 1998.

That year was actually when I was choosing my UG, and with my picture based imagination, I always associated Emory with images of space travel, for some reason. I know there is quite a bit of data indicating there is no necessary correlation between UG and Law rankings, but for me, the prestige of the institution as a whole is important - read: some of the schools that have high Law rankings but very low UG rankings.

With such a considerable endowment and the fact that Atlanta's economy is on the rise relative to others in the country and is now considered, or at least becoming considered, a close neighbor to the power house centers like NYC and LA, is it unreasonable to see Emory as a sort of school of the 21st century? As the population expands southward, and presumably Atlanta's economy wields more power, isn't it reasonable to imagine that a decade or two from now Emory should have a greater national reputation as a result?

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Blindmelon
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby Blindmelon » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:18 pm

Jules Winnfield wrote:Not if UGA continues to give Emory a run for its money in terms of employment prospects and lower tuition.


This - UGA = Emory in firm placement and clerkships. Its also a lot cheaper. If you wanna work in GA go to UGA - if you want to work in NYC, go to Fordham. I don't think Emory will rise given that its not a great option for most things given its cost and placement.

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ArthurEdens
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby ArthurEdens » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:41 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
Jules Winnfield wrote:Not if UGA continues to give Emory a run for its money in terms of employment prospects and lower tuition.


This - UGA = Emory in firm placement and clerkships. Its also a lot cheaper. If you wanna work in GA go to UGA - if you want to work in NYC, go to Fordham. I don't think Emory will rise given that its not a great option for most things given its cost and placement.


UGA grads are effectively stuck in the South Atlantic region (87%), whereas Emory grads are not (56%). UGA is also not that much cheaper for out-of-state students.

I'm not surprised that you don't think Emory will rise, considering you are attending BU, a rival school also gunning very hard to become a T20 fixture. Maybe I should start a thread talking about BC's superior employment vs. BU? :wink:

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Blindmelon
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby Blindmelon » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:42 pm

ArthurEdens wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
Jules Winnfield wrote:Not if UGA continues to give Emory a run for its money in terms of employment prospects and lower tuition.


This - UGA = Emory in firm placement and clerkships. Its also a lot cheaper. If you wanna work in GA go to UGA - if you want to work in NYC, go to Fordham. I don't think Emory will rise given that its not a great option for most things given its cost and placement.


UGA grads are effectively stuck in the South Atlantic region (87%), whereas Emory grads are not (56%). UGA is also not that much cheaper for out-of-state students.

I'm not surprised that you don't think Emory will rise, considering you are attending BU, a rival school also gunning very hard to become a T20 fixture. Maybe I should start a thread talking about BC's superior employment vs. BU? :wink:


Trust me. If there were an instate school for half the money that had similar placement as BU in Boston I would be there in a hot second.
BU v. Emory's rankings also doesn't matter. Our schools barely compete. 40 or so % of BU stays in Boston - our only overlap is NYC and the legal market there is gone to crap anyway.

We should both be happy that we have ATL/Boston to fall back on :).

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Grizz
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby Grizz » Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:57 pm

ArthurEdens wrote:
UGA grads are effectively stuck in the South Atlantic region (87%), whereas Emory grads are not (56%). UGA is also not that much cheaper for out-of-state students.


If you apply in November/December before UGA's scholarship money runs out, they're pretty good about throwing tuition equalizations for at least 1 semester to qualified applicants.

twintipping_bumps
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Re: Can Emory Sustain its Current Ranking?

Postby twintipping_bumps » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:19 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
Jules Winnfield wrote:Not if UGA continues to give Emory a run for its money in terms of employment prospects and lower tuition.


This - UGA = Emory in firm placement and clerkships. Its also a lot cheaper. If you wanna work in GA go to UGA - if you want to work in NYC, go to Fordham. I don't think Emory will rise given that its not a great option for most things given its cost and placement.


I suppose I am more concerned with UG ranking and Lay prestige than I should be, where the comparison doesn't seem as relevant. Any thoughts out there in regards to Emory's future when placed in that frame?




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