CLS v. Penn v. Michigan $$ v. Gtown $$

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where should I go?

CLS (sticker)
24
43%
Penn (sticker)
5
9%
Michigan $54k
21
38%
Georgetown $60k
6
11%
 
Total votes: 56

kbo026
Posts: 21
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CLS v. Penn v. Michigan $$ v. Gtown $$

Postby kbo026 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:46 pm

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Last edited by kbo026 on Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Brainalist
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Re: CLS v. Penn v. Michigan $$ v. Gtown $$

Postby The Brainalist » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:55 pm

kbo026 wrote:Facts to consider:

1) Ideally, I'd like to get a clerkship, work in public interest, and maybe go into academia.

2) I really don't like New York City.

3) My long term boyfriend is in DC. All my family and friends are in/around NY and New England. I'll be happiest if I'm near them.

4) I want to stay on the East Coast long term.

What are your thoughts?


1) Not Georgetown

2) Not Columbia

3) Not Michigan

4) Not Michigan.

By the process of elimination: Penn!

kbo026
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:13 am

Re: CLS v. Penn v. Michigan $$ v. Gtown $$

Postby kbo026 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:56 pm

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Last edited by kbo026 on Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Action Jackson
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Re: CLS v. Penn v. Michigan $$ v. Gtown $$

Postby Action Jackson » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:57 pm

CLS. The money from Mich and GULC aren't great enough to justify stepping down in rankings. If you can get Mich up to $100k or GULC up to $150k then those would be better.

lakerfanimal
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Re: CLS v. Penn v. Michigan $$ v. Gtown $$

Postby lakerfanimal » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:10 pm

You should try to get some money from Penn by using U Mich's offer, because that's the closest school to where you want to be after Columbia (you said you hate NYC though).

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AngryAvocado
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Re: CLS v. Penn v. Michigan $$ v. Gtown $$

Postby AngryAvocado » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:24 pm

I agree with Lakerfan. If you haven't, try to first negotiate with Penn using your Michigan scholarship and Columbia acceptance. If they don't give you a sizable offer, I'd go with CLS.

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WrappedUpInBooks
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Re: CLS v. Penn v. Michigan $$ v. Gtown $$

Postby WrappedUpInBooks » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:30 pm

Columbia is not only the highest ranked, but its LRAP blows everyone else out of the water, and if you want to do PI that should be a huge consideration.

Also, it's cheap/easy to get to DC and Boston from there.

You're just going to have to suck it up and live in NYC.

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rockchalk86
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Re: CLS v. Penn v. Michigan $$ v. Gtown $$

Postby rockchalk86 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:34 pm

Michigan or Penn. Michigan places more student on the east coast than any other region so it will give you a great shot at the east coast. Penn is the best school you have not in NYC. I'd say you can't lose either way.

09042014
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Re: CLS v. Penn v. Michigan $$ v. Gtown $$

Postby 09042014 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:35 pm

Columbia. 54K isn't much in the long run, compared to the boost in placement.

Action Jackson
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Re: CLS v. Penn v. Michigan $$ v. Gtown $$

Postby Action Jackson » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:17 pm

I have to level with you guys, ITE if there's not a significant difference in money go to the best school you can. That means if you can't get $100k out of Penn go to CLS. 3 years in a city you might not love is worth it to get better job prospects.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: CLS v. Penn v. Michigan $$ v. Gtown $$

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:18 pm

kbo026 wrote:Facts to consider:

1) Ideally, I'd like to get a clerkship, work in public interest, and maybe go into academia.

2) I really don't like New York City.

3) My long term boyfriend is in DC. All my family and friends are in/around NY and New England. I'll be happiest if I'm near them.

4) I want to stay on the East Coast long term.

What are your thoughts?

As somebody who had a similar offer (albeit NYU, not Columbia) with $54k at Michigan and who took Michigan, I will argue that there really isn't a terrible choice between the two unless you are dead set on Vault 10. Even then, it can be achieved at Michigan, albeit with more ease from Columbia.

But let's begin with monetary considerations:
Columbia estimates that the tuition and budget for a single student for 9 months is $71,000 dollars. That does not include costs for the summer, of course, but brings your three academic year living expenses to $213,000.

With Michigan, your estimate of $46,200 in tuition and $17,500 in living expenses, minus your $18,000 per year scholarship, comes out to $45,700 per year, or $137,100.

Cost of attendance difference? A savings of $75,900 at Michigan over Columbia.


What does that actually mean when it comes to paying back your loans?

Columbia: With a loan balance of $213,000 paying on a 6.8% interest rate at 10 years, you'll have monthly payments of $2,451.
Michigan: With a loan balance of $137,100 paying on a 6.8% interest rate at 10 years, you'll have monthly payments of $1,577.



With these financial differences set aside, I won't contend that Michigan does as well for SCOTUS clerk placement or V10 placement as Columbia - it doesn't. But Michigan will not close these doors to you. We have outstanding Article III clerkship placement rate (per capita, not just raw figure) and our placement into academia over the past several years has been rather impressive as well, especially considering our "9th place" ranking. All that being said, if you want Vault 10 or a better chance at a SCOTUS clerkship, Columbia will make that easier. The question you have to ask is if that is worth the financial difference above to you?

This post isn't to argue that Michigan is better than Columbia in any way, merely to point out that paying sticker price is a very serious consideration. I'd urge you to have strong and well-reasoned rationales for paying that extra price difference. If you do, Columbia is a fantastic place for you. If not, you have a tough decision on your hands. Best of luck!

Action Jackson
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Re: CLS v. Penn v. Michigan $$ v. Gtown $$

Postby Action Jackson » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:32 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:As somebody who had a similar offer (albeit NYU, not Columbia) with $54k at Michigan and who took Michigan, I will argue that there really isn't a terrible choice between the two unless you are dead set on Vault 10. Even then, it can be achieved at Michigan, albeit with more ease from Columbia.


I think you're being silly with this V10 stuff. ITE, it's less about V10 vs V20 and more about having an income at all. You don't want to screw around with that. CLS makes it MORE likely you will have an income coming out of school than Mich will. The debt difference, while not insignificant, does not justify lessening employment prospects, because the debt out of Mich will still be high enough to be a huge burden on someone that doesn't have a biglaw job.

ITE you should either go for minimal debt as possible (full ride is ideal) or the best school you can get into.

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CG614
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Re: CLS v. Penn v. Michigan $$ v. Gtown $$

Postby CG614 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:36 pm

kbo026 wrote:Facts to consider:

1) Ideally, I'd like to get a clerkship, work in public interest, and maybe go into academia.

2) I really don't like New York City.

3) My long term boyfriend is in DC. All my family and friends are in/around NY and New England. I'll be happiest if I'm near them.

4) I want to stay on the East Coast long term.

What are your thoughts?

1) CLS is easily your best option for this criteria.
2) It's three years and then you can go wherever you want.
3) Don't make a decision based on a SO, odds are it won't last through law school. Not to be pessimistic, just reality.
4) All four are fine for this.

Of all your criteria, to me, your career goals are most important. Those should point you to CLS. Good luck and congrats!




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