Are T-14 harder?

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mrm2083
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Are T-14 harder?

Postby mrm2083 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:12 am

I am trying to choose between Miami (full ride) and Georgetown (full price). I am leaning more towards Georgetown but am a little worried about the difficulty of the school. I realize that law school is always difficult but will Georgetown be much harder then Miami (in terms of being, say top 50%?). I worry because I am a splitter and feel as though my LSAT will only go so far and at Georgetown most people have my LSAT plus higher GPAs and I have heard it is a very competitive school.

rando
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby rando » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:22 am

mrm2083 wrote:I am trying to choose between Miami (full ride) and Georgetown (full price). I am leaning more towards Georgetown but am a little worried about the difficulty of the school. I realize that law school is always difficult but will Georgetown be much harder then Miami (in terms of being, say top 50%?). I worry because I am a splitter and feel as though my LSAT will only go so far and at Georgetown most people have my LSAT plus higher GPAs and I have heard it is a very competitive school.


I don't know if anyone but transfers can actually answer this. That being said, it seems logical that the higher ranked school you go to, the more difficult it will be to do better relative to your peers.

CyLaw
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby CyLaw » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:26 am

rando wrote:
mrm2083 wrote:I am trying to choose between Miami (full ride) and Georgetown (full price). I am leaning more towards Georgetown but am a little worried about the difficulty of the school. I realize that law school is always difficult but will Georgetown be much harder then Miami (in terms of being, say top 50%?). I worry because I am a splitter and feel as though my LSAT will only go so far and at Georgetown most people have my LSAT plus higher GPAs and I have heard it is a very competitive school.


I don't know if anyone but transfers can actually answer this. That being said, it seems logical that the higher ranked school you go to, the more difficult it will be to do better relative to your peers.


Even transfers will be unlikely to answer this question as there is a difference in perception of classes between 1L and 2L.

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clintonius
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby clintonius » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:33 am

Disclaimer: this is all conjecture, given that I don't start until the fall. It makes sense to me that, even if the school isn't any harder, you will have to work harder for placement given the likely difference between your peers at a school with less competitive admissions standards versus a t-14.

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jack duluoz
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby jack duluoz » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:40 am

Obviously to be top 50% at Gtown is going to be harder than at miami. However, the thing is, and this is why people often take highly ranked schools, is that to have similar graduation opportunities, you'll need to be top 10% at miami, whereas top 40% at gtown will do the trick (class percentage is a guess, but u get the idea).

rando
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby rando » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:40 am

clintonius wrote:Disclaimer: this is all conjecture, given that I don't start until the fall. It makes sense to me that, even if the school isn't any harder, you will have to work harder for placement given the likely difference between your peers at a school with less competitive admissions standards versus a t-14.


The question was framed in terms of ranking difficulty, not difficulty of the material.

rando
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby rando » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:41 am

jack duluoz wrote:Obviously to be top 50% at Gtown is going to be harder than at miami. However, the thing is, and this is why people often take highly ranked schools, is that to have similar graduation opportunities, you'll need to be top 10% at miami, whereas top 40% at gtown will do the trick (class percentage is a guess, but u get the idea).


Thus, the question goes, is it harder to get top 10% at Miami or top 50% at Gtown?

nifer327
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby nifer327 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:44 am

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Last edited by nifer327 on Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Flanker1067
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby Flanker1067 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:46 am

nifer327 wrote:As a transfer student, I can attest to the fact that it is certainly harder to be #1 in all classes at a T-14 than at a non-T14. However, non T-14 schools often have much harsher curves than T-14 schools, which makes it *easier* to get better grades at a T-14.

For example, at my original school, 3 A's were given per class of 100 students. At my new school, approximately 20 A's are given per class of 100 students. While it may be harder at a T-14 to be in the top 3 students, that difficulty is mooted a bit by the curve. You can still get an A at a non-T-14 without being #s 1-3.



So in your experience, it is roughly equal in difficulty to get an A?

rando
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby rando » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:48 am

nifer327 wrote:As a transfer student, I can attest to the fact that it is certainly harder to be #1 in all classes at a T-14 than at a non-T14. However, non T-14 schools often have much harsher curves than T-14 schools, which makes it *easier* to get better grades at a T-14.

For example, at my original school, 3 A's were given per class of 100 students. At my new school, approximately 20 A's are given per class of 100 students. While it may be harder at a T-14 to be in the top 3 students, that difficulty is mooted a bit by the curve. You can still get an A at a non-T-14 without being #s 1-3.


Still doesn't answer the question. Regardless of your GPA or how many A's you get, ranking is what matters. Employers know what grade inflation is.

legends159
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby legends159 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:00 pm

the fancy schools also teach the material differently. Lower ranked schools teach to the bar, higher ranked schools teach more theory and policy and the exams are less black letter issue spotters and more policy oriented. Or if they are issue spotter, there are fewer trigger words that make the issues obvious and often require one to resolve the issue rather than just spot them. I think that is what makes one exam harder than the other (though it's all relative b/c it's graded on a curve).

Almost every exam I've taken have asked me to come up with arguments on the fly and defend them using the fact pattern. This tests a certain skill that requires knowing the material and then be able to manipulate it to your needs either by distinguishing/analogizing cases or by making policy-esque arguments (something a lawyer must do).

I haven't gone to any other law schools, but have met visiting professors who taught at lower-ranked schools (mid 1st tier) who have told us that they give completely different tests and teach the subject differently because the deans at each school have different priorities.

mrm2083
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby mrm2083 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:28 pm

I am curious because Miami does pretty well in South Florida and I know a lot of people at big firms down here so I am fairly well connected. I think the Georgetown education will definitely give me an advantage but if I'm at the bottom of my class it may put me at a disadvantage compared to going to Miami. I just feel safe, not in being top 10 but definitely top 30% at Miami while at Georgetown I honestly have no clue.

rando
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby rando » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:34 pm

mrm2083 wrote:I am curious because Miami does pretty well in South Florida and I know a lot of people at big firms down here so I am fairly well connected. I think the Georgetown education will definitely give me an advantage but if I'm at the bottom of my class it may put me at a disadvantage compared to going to Miami. I just feel safe, not in being top 10 but definitely top 30% at Miami while at Georgetown I honestly have no clue.


Top 30% at miami won't get you a big firm job.

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CKuleba
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby CKuleba » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:41 pm

Your Georgetown education is much more transferable than the degree @ miami. If you want to live in SoFla for the rest of your life miami may not be a bad option. If you want room to move with equal opportunities (maybe even more) in south florida, than go with georgetown. It's a lot of debt to pay off but if you do well you shouldn't have a problem making the money to pay back the loans relatively soon.

If it were me, I'd be at georgetown.

rando
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby rando » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:55 pm

CKuleba wrote:Your Georgetown education is much more transferable than the degree @ miami. If you want to live in SoFla for the rest of your life miami may not be a bad option. If you want room to move with equal opportunities (maybe even more) in south florida, than go with georgetown. It's a lot of debt to pay off but if you do well you shouldn't have a problem making the money to pay back the loans relatively soon.

If it were me, I'd be at georgetown.


Despite the difficulty of going biglaw from Miami, I would take the full ride. There is no guarantee that you will be in the top half at gtown (or whatever it takes to get employment these days) and not to burst too many bubbles but the people paying sticker subsidize those on scholarship (who turned down offers at higher ranked schools) and are your competition.

Action Jackson
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby Action Jackson » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:20 pm

DO NOT make assumptions about what your class rank will be in law school. You simply can't predict that sort of thing. Always assume median and make your calculations based on that.

Personally, if you KNOW you want to be in Floridia, ITE I would take the full ride. If you don't get biglaw you're still okay without debt. With debt, you're SOL.

rando
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Re: Are T-14 harder?

Postby rando » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:25 pm

Action Jackson wrote:DO NOT make assumptions about what your class rank will be in law school. You simply can't predict that sort of thing. Always assume median and make your calculations based on that.

Personally, if you KNOW you want to be in Floridia, ITE I would take the full ride. If you don't get biglaw you're still okay without debt. With debt, you're SOL.


well said




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