GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
jjons101
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:18 pm

GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby jjons101 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:59 pm

First, let me ask: am I correct that admission from WL = no chance at merit aid? I assume so, and thus no $ from GULC. Michigan will give me $15k/year. However, DC is probably my first choice city for long-term career post-law school. I currently live and work in DC, and GULC would be convenient. I know Michigan has a higher (generic, overall) ranking, but what about Mich v. GULC strictly in regards to DC jobs?

In looking at hundreds of attorney bios at the top firms in DC several things are clear: local schools have disproportionately strong placement. GULC does tremendously. Actually GW does too - in great disproportion to its stupid USNWR rank.

I don't want to live in the midwest or michigan after LS, though a couple years there is fine. Would it be dumb to pass up the best school in the town where I want to practice, and then try to come back for a job? At lots of the best DC firms, you might have 0-1 partners from Michigan plus a couple associates, but 3+ partners from GULC and a dozen associates.

tl;dr version: which (UMich or GULC) would be better for a career in DC as a practitioner?

starsong
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:35 pm

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby starsong » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:47 pm

Tough call. You already know that UM is ranked higher and therefore has greater career potential. But if you're absolutely sold on DC, GULC may be better simply due to the connections you can form while here.

Bottom line: UM won't limit you to the midwest, but GULC may ensure you stay in DC.

User avatar
scribelaw
Posts: 771
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby scribelaw » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:56 pm

I don't see how this is much of a choice.

Michigan has far better placement and will be substantially cheaper than Georgetown (at sticker with a much higher COL).

Even for DC, I'd pick Michigan. At Georgetown, you'll be competing against 650 classmates, the vast majority of whom will want DC. Michigan is a better school, has a far smaller class size, and a lot of your classmates will be going for NYC/Chicago/California, leaving less competition at OCI.

Go to Michigan.

User avatar
im_blue
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby im_blue » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:27 pm

scribelaw wrote:I don't see how this is much of a choice.

Michigan has far better placement and will be substantially cheaper than Georgetown (at sticker with a much higher COL).

Even for DC, I'd pick Michigan. At Georgetown, you'll be competing against 650 classmates, the vast majority of whom will want DC. Michigan is a better school, has a far smaller class size, and a lot of your classmates will be going for NYC/Chicago/California, leaving less competition at OCI.

Go to Michigan.

TITCR. Michigan is a no-brainer, especially at lower cost.

starsong
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:35 pm

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby starsong » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:17 am

im_blue wrote:
scribelaw wrote:I don't see how this is much of a choice.

Michigan has far better placement and will be substantially cheaper than Georgetown (at sticker with a much higher COL).

Even for DC, I'd pick Michigan. At Georgetown, you'll be competing against 650 classmates, the vast majority of whom will want DC. Michigan is a better school, has a far smaller class size, and a lot of your classmates will be going for NYC/Chicago/California, leaving less competition at OCI.

Go to Michigan.

TITCR. Michigan is a no-brainer, especially at lower cost.


I disagree. Placement is a function of supply as well as demand: more GULC students want DC, but more GULC students will get DC as well, thanks to local reputation and networking. There is a tendency on TLS to discount the latter, especially in the case of someone like OP who already lives in the area and likely has existing relationships.

Like I said, Michigan won't limit you to the mid-west. But you won't have the networking opportunities from living in Washington for the three years of law school. DC is a hard market to break into, and connections can help a lot. If you're absolutely dead-set on DC--i.e. ending up in NYC would be totally unacceptable--give GULC a good, hard look. Otherwise, take the money from UMich and give yourself more flexibility + less debt.

User avatar
Corsair
Posts: 3997
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 1981 12:25 am

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby Corsair » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:30 am

..

User avatar
panda
Posts: 360
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:11 pm

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby panda » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:36 am

starsong wrote:
im_blue wrote:
scribelaw wrote:I don't see how this is much of a choice.

Michigan has far better placement and will be substantially cheaper than Georgetown (at sticker with a much higher COL).

Even for DC, I'd pick Michigan. At Georgetown, you'll be competing against 650 classmates, the vast majority of whom will want DC. Michigan is a better school, has a far smaller class size, and a lot of your classmates will be going for NYC/Chicago/California, leaving less competition at OCI.

Go to Michigan.

TITCR. Michigan is a no-brainer, especially at lower cost.


I disagree. Placement is a function of supply as well as demand: more GULC students want DC, but more GULC students will get DC as well, thanks to local reputation and networking. There is a tendency on TLS to discount the latter, especially in the case of someone like OP who already lives in the area and likely has existing relationships.

Like I said, Michigan won't limit you to the mid-west. But you won't have the networking opportunities from living in Washington for the three years of law school. DC is a hard market to break into, and connections can help a lot. If you're absolutely dead-set on DC--i.e. ending up in NYC would be totally unacceptable--give GULC a good, hard look. Otherwise, take the money from UMich and give yourself more flexibility + less debt.


this is just wrong. if you already have contacts in DC, you can maintain them. as for building contacts, it is unlikely that during those three years in law school, a student will build enough contacts to make Gtown a better choice than MI with money. If you weigh the benefits, it always ends up in MI's favor. Plus, the poster above is write, an MI student is more competitive in DC than a Gtown student, because of less competition. And if your grades aren't as high as you want them to be, the likelihood of beating out the higher ranked Gtown students is unlikely, and you will have much less competition from the MI students in that field.

the lower amount of debt, cost of living, higher rank, etc.. they all just point to one answer.

MI.

User avatar
Richie Tenenbaum
Posts: 2162
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:17 am

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:46 am

It is possible to recieve merit aid coming off a waitlist. If gulc is one of your top choices try to visit and make sure you send a loci if you have not yet.

irishman86
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:03 am

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby irishman86 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:23 pm

starsong wrote:Tough call. You already know that UM is ranked higher and therefore has greater career potential. But if you're absolutely sold on DC, GULC may be better simply due to the connections you can form while here.

Bottom line: UM won't limit you to the midwest, but GULC may ensure you stay in DC.


Seriously? "Won't limit you?" The VAST MAJORITY of UM grads don't even end up in the Midwest. NYC, DC, and California are popular locations, as well as Chicago. More people from UM end up in New York than anywhere else. You need to do research before you speak.

Georgetown has the WORST placement out of all the top 14, partly because of its very large class size. Its OCI this past year was horrendous. It's really a no-brainer that Michigan is TCR.

Oblomov
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:16 am

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby Oblomov » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:31 pm

n
Last edited by Oblomov on Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

starsong
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:35 pm

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby starsong » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:37 pm

irishman86 wrote:
starsong wrote:Tough call. You already know that UM is ranked higher and therefore has greater career potential. But if you're absolutely sold on DC, GULC may be better simply due to the connections you can form while here.

Bottom line: UM won't limit you to the midwest, but GULC may ensure you stay in DC.


Seriously? "Won't limit you?" The VAST MAJORITY of UM grads don't even end up in the Midwest. NYC, DC, and California are popular locations, as well as Chicago. More people from UM end up in New York than anywhere else. You need to do research before you speak.


Dude, chill out. I was responding to OP's comment that "I don't want to live in the midwest or michigan after LS". Relax.

Georgetown has the WORST placement out of all the top 14, partly because of its very large class size. Its OCI this past year was horrendous. It's really a no-brainer that Michigan is TCR.

I don't remember OP mentioning national OCI placement. Didn't he say "I know Michigan has a higher (generic, overall) ranking, but what about Mich v. GULC strictly in regards to DC jobs?"

For not reading carefully, you really get worked up. Take a chill pill.

starsong
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:35 pm

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby starsong » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:41 pm

Oblomov wrote:How well do you network?

While the market looks to be improving, it's not going to be like 2006. If you're in the middle of the class who you know can be very important. Obviously the UoM degree is preferable, but if you have a lot of chances to network, and you're good at it, GULC might be better for you. Plus, you could stay in the same place for 3+ years. Moving around in the summer is a pain and potentially expensive. I don't think there's a clear answer.


+1. It's a legitimate, difficult question. Depends a lot on your ultimate goal: if it's market-paying biglaw, with no preference re. location, UM is the clear winner. If you wouldn't be happy outside of DC, you're willing and able to network effectively, and you're OK with the possibility of less than biglaw, GULC deserves serious consideration.

I agree with Oblomov that you should take into account summer moving costs as well.

promike1
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:41 pm

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby promike1 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:53 am

Are Georgetown's biglaw prospects in DC seriously that much lower than UMich?

User avatar
badwithpseudonyms
Posts: 815
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:48 pm

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby badwithpseudonyms » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:24 am

I wouldn't say necessarily that GULC has stronger placement in DC simply because there are more GULC grads in DC. GULC's FT class alone is significantly larger than Michigan, and then there's PT students too. I'm not familiar with GULC grads geographic diversity, but I would imagine that a fairly significant portion remain in the DC area after graduation, whereas not many UM grads stay in Michigan, let alone the Midwest (Chicago excluded).

If you decide you'd rather be in DC for three years, that's fine. Everyone has different priorities. But Michigan with $ > GULC.

Go to GULC. Give the spot and the $ to someone who'd give an appendage to go to Michigan.

User avatar
dudester
Posts: 344
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:23 pm

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby dudester » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:25 am

Oblomov wrote:How well do you network?

While the market looks to be improving, it's not going to be like 2006. If you're in the middle of the class who you know can be very important. Obviously the UoM degree is preferable, but if you have a lot of chances to network, and you're good at it, GULC might be better for you. Plus, you could stay in the same place for 3+ years. Moving around in the summer is a pain and potentially expensive. I don't think there's a clear answer.


Networking at a diploma mill is overrated.

User avatar
kurla88
Posts: 370
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:27 am

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby kurla88 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:20 pm

Make a poll. But Michigan all the way. Gtown has a pretty bad rep on this board as far as being a giant diploma mill/really competitive etc. Obviously to be taken with a grain of salt, but still. Michigan in contrast is perceived as being collegial, fun, fairly small etc.

In addition to the scholarship, it's much cheaper to live in Ann Arbor, and it can't hurt to have 3 years away from DC if you intend to live there long term.

Do you have other options? Penn or UVA?

Tomato Stevens
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:52 am

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby Tomato Stevens » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:45 pm

If GULC doesn't give you >30k/yr (which I am assuming they won't), pack your coats and go to Ann Arbor!

270910
Posts: 2437
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 9:51 pm

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby 270910 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:47 pm

im_blue wrote:
scribelaw wrote:I don't see how this is much of a choice.

Michigan has far better placement and will be substantially cheaper than Georgetown (at sticker with a much higher COL).

Even for DC, I'd pick Michigan. At Georgetown, you'll be competing against 650 classmates, the vast majority of whom will want DC. Michigan is a better school, has a far smaller class size, and a lot of your classmates will be going for NYC/Chicago/California, leaving less competition at OCI.

Go to Michigan.

TITCR. Michigan is a no-brainer, especially at lower cost.


+1,000,000

promike1 wrote:Are Georgetown's biglaw prospects in DC seriously that much lower than UMich?


Yes. DC is a town of transplants. Georgetown is the undisputed champion... of every school ranked below Georgetown.

fortissimo
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:05 am

Re: GULC (sticker) v. UMich ($) [for a career in DC]

Postby fortissimo » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:58 pm

dudester wrote:
Oblomov wrote:How well do you network?

While the market looks to be improving, it's not going to be like 2006. If you're in the middle of the class who you know can be very important. Obviously the UoM degree is preferable, but if you have a lot of chances to network, and you're good at it, GULC might be better for you. Plus, you could stay in the same place for 3+ years. Moving around in the summer is a pain and potentially expensive. I don't think there's a clear answer.


Networking at a diploma mill is overrated.


Seriously, not to mention networking in general is overrated if you want biglaw. Unless you know a partner really well who will definitely hire you, I think networking is pretty much nonexistent for biglaw. If you want biglaw, it's pretty much just based on your grades (and your school) and you can pretty much only get biglaw via OCI ite (not mass mailing or whatever used to work in the past).

Anecdotally, Georgetown's OCI was (particularly) a major shitfest this past OCI.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], blueapple, BobBoblaw and 7 guests