Full tuition worth jumping on?

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guinness85
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Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby guinness85 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:07 pm

How impressive is a full tuition scholarship from a second tier school with 164sish/3.7ish? Worth taking up the offer in this economy? I am interested in public interest, not BigLaw.

By the way, is full tuition written as $$$ on TLS?

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:11 pm

Depends on your options. But a T2 with no tuition isn't anything to thumb your nose at. Unless I was into a dream school, I'd probably take it if it fit some basic criteria.

guinness85
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby guinness85 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:14 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:Depends on your options. But a T2 with no tuition isn't anything to thumb your nose at. Unless I was into a dream school, I'd probably take it if it fit some basic criteria.


With decent numbers am I selling myself off for potentially unimpressive prospects, potentially?

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:19 pm

guinness85 wrote:
Great Satchmo wrote:Depends on your options. But a T2 with no tuition isn't anything to thumb your nose at. Unless I was into a dream school, I'd probably take it if it fit some basic criteria.


With decent numbers am I selling myself off for potentially unimpressive prospects, potentially?


Where else did you get in?

And it's not really selling yourself short, it's selling yourself for $120k.

GBR37
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby GBR37 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:19 pm

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Last edited by GBR37 on Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HyeMart
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby HyeMart » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:20 pm

potentially? yea

actually? who knows

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:22 pm

GBR37 wrote:I have a similar question. Should I go to the local T2 state school that is rated in the 70s and not pay tuition or UVA at full price?

I don't think I want to practice in law firm, but UVA is a dream school.


That is a totally personal choice, and if you have a choice to save that much money it's not easy.

Most people here will say UVA. However, the reality is that $120,000 debt plus interest will be a payment you see every month for a decade or two, not them.

keg411
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby keg411 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:28 pm

Depends on a few things:
1) What school is it? (i.e. crowded market or owns market)
2) Is the school in the area you want to practice in?
3) Are there any GPA stipulations on the scholarship?

guinness85
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby guinness85 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:32 pm

keg411 wrote:Depends on a few things:
1) What school is it? (i.e. crowded market or owns market)
2) Is the school in the area you want to practice in?
3) Are there any GPA stipulations on the scholarship?


Crowed market. I'll practice anywhere (interested in JAG). 2.somethingish stipulation (which I think that I can handle).

Like everyone, I'm trying to get the biggest potential with my numbers and I am not retaking/reapplying. If a degree from a T2 (ranked in 70s) is worthless, as some say, then I am less impressed by the full tuition offer.

keg411
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby keg411 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:36 pm

guinness85 wrote:
keg411 wrote:Depends on a few things:
1) What school is it? (i.e. crowded market or owns market)
2) Is the school in the area you want to practice in?
3) Are there any GPA stipulations on the scholarship?


Crowed market. I'll practice anywhere (interested in JAG). 2.somethingish stipulation (which I think that I can handle).

Like everyone, I'm trying to get the biggest potential with my numbers and I am not retaking/reapplying. If a degree from a T2 (ranked in 70s) is worthless, as some say, then I am less impressed by the full tuition offer.


2.x something stipulation could be tough (ie. if it's Baylor, which has a reputation of a very very very difficult curve; if it's not Baylor, then it might be different... you have to find out the curve). It's definitely not worthless, but you always, always, always have to be wary of scholarship stipulations on any scholarship. Losing a scholarship at an expensive private school can be much more damaging than losing a scholarship at a state school where you have (or can easily obtain) in-state tuition.

guinness85
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby guinness85 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:50 pm

How about University of Indiana with 10k scholarship per year vs. Brooklyn with full scholarship??

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rayiner
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby rayiner » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:51 pm

GBR37 wrote:I have a similar question. Should I go to the local T2 state school that is rated in the 70s and not pay tuition or UVA at full price?

I don't think I want to practice in law firm, but UVA is a dream school.


UVA.

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rayiner
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby rayiner » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:52 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:
GBR37 wrote:I have a similar question. Should I go to the local T2 state school that is rated in the 70s and not pay tuition or UVA at full price?

I don't think I want to practice in law firm, but UVA is a dream school.


That is a totally personal choice, and if you have a choice to save that much money it's not easy.

Most people here will say UVA. However, the reality is that $120,000 debt plus interest will be a payment you see every month for a decade or two, not them.


If he wants to work at a law firm, he'll be able to get a big firm job from UVA. If he wants to do public interest, the federal government will forgive most of his loans. There is no reason to take the scholarship.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby Vincent Vega » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:53 pm

guinness85 wrote:How about University of Indiana with 10k scholarship per year vs. Brooklyn with full scholarship??



If you want New York, you should probably take the full ride at Brooklyn over the 10k at Indiana University.

erniesto
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby erniesto » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:56 pm

Scholarship figures are worthless. Put your adjusted CoA side by side. If its not T-20, BC, GW, or Fordham (you could even exclude the last two if you wanted) or you don't want Big Law, go with the cheapest in an area you'd want to live in.

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rayiner
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby rayiner » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:42 pm

erniesto wrote:Scholarship figures are worthless. Put your adjusted CoA side by side. If its not T-20, BC, GW, or Fordham (you could even exclude the last two if you wanted) or you don't want Big Law, go with the cheapest in an area you'd want to live in.


No! If you want government or public interest, go to the highest ranked-school you can in the region you want to live in, scholarship or no. That's the whole point of federal IBR.

erniesto
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby erniesto » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:58 pm

rayiner wrote:
erniesto wrote:Scholarship figures are worthless. Put your adjusted CoA side by side. If its not T-20, BC, GW, or Fordham (you could even exclude the last two if you wanted) or you don't want Big Law, go with the cheapest in an area you'd want to live in.


No! If you want government or public interest, go to the highest ranked-school you can in the region you want to live in, scholarship or no. That's the whole point of federal IBR.


You can only make an educated guess at best that you want government or PI unless you're a nontrad. Did you change your life plan in college? I bet you did. You might do so again in law school.

My point still stands. The rankings factor the same for government and public interest positions too. Outside of T20, good luck on getting the sweet positions, it looks to be about the same for rankings 31-100, with a few public school (which are cheaper anyways) exceptions.

Also, this is not the point of IBR. The point of IBR is so that you don't drown in government loan debt. If you break out of PI, you go into the 25 year plan, adding 15 extra years of payments before you're done. Hopefully IBR lasts that long. If you go into law school with the idea that you'll be debt free after 10 years (maybe 15) IBR or not, you'll be free of burden quicker.

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beesknees
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby beesknees » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:19 pm

I wouldn't choose a school based soley on the fact that IBR could save your skin. If you do, you must A) find out what exactly constitutes qualifying PI/gov work under the program (you may think its broad, but it could be narrowly defined); B) guess your likelihood of obtaining such employment from that school; and C) bank on the fact that the program won't be changed/reduced/wiped out in prevailing administrations.

Basically, its still a tough decision. Don't flippantly choose UVA simply because you think IBR will be your golden ticket to someone writing off your debt.

That being said, UVA will probably offer your far better prospects if the full-tuition school is in a crowded market. But definitely run a cost-benefit analysis with real numbers for tuition and COL and various hypothetical salaries. That way you can make a semi-informed decision based on realistic figures, instead of gems like "its my dream school" or "the government can pay off my debt."

guinness85
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby guinness85 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:04 pm

What about Indiana (obviously not the same thing as UVA) vs. Brooklyn or, say, Kent?

erniesto
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby erniesto » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:08 pm

Which is cheaper?

Do you like Brooklyn, Bloomington and Chicago?

guinness85
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby guinness85 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:12 pm

erniesto wrote:Which is cheaper?

Do you like Brooklyn, Bloomington and Chicago?


Full tuition at T2s and 10k-ish at Bloomington.

Chicago=NYC for me.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby Vincent Vega » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:25 pm

Kent will get you farther in Chicago than Brooklyn will get you in NYC, typically. They're both better than your offer with Indiana, unless you want Indianapolis.

erniesto
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby erniesto » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:20 pm

Vincent Vega wrote:Kent will get you farther in Chicago than Brooklyn will get you in NYC, typically. They're both better than your offer with Indiana, unless you want Indianapolis.


Source that please.

http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf

That shows opposite of this claim.

I'm assuming you don't have instate at Indiana, in which case pick Chicago or New York and hope because both those markets are saturated (as are all legal markets).

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby Vincent Vega » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:28 pm

erniesto wrote:
Vincent Vega wrote:Kent will get you farther in Chicago than Brooklyn will get you in NYC, typically. They're both better than your offer with Indiana, unless you want Indianapolis.


Source that please.

http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf

That shows opposite of this claim.

I'm assuming you don't have instate at Indiana, in which case pick Chicago or New York and hope because both those markets are saturated (as are all legal markets).


Those stats are five years old. The newest is here (link). Kent is on there, but Brooklyn is not. Additionally, take those rankings with a grain of salt, anyway. New York has been hit hard ITE and jobs that Brooklyn grads used to get are going to Columbia and NYU grads now. Chicago has been hit hard as well, of course, but there are less feeder schools into Chicago.

erniesto
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Re: Full tuition worth jumping on?

Postby erniesto » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:32 pm

Already explained and sourced by Brooklyn with verifiable info. Brooklyn is ~19%.

By the by, Brooklyn doesn't seem to give a flying shit about playing fair with the rankings. Whether this is ethical or moral behavior, who knows. I think they've got gumption, if not employed alumni.

Both surveys were done on an OCI that occured before shit really hit the fan anyways. I use the older one because it uses more schools. Kent is just as bad off as Brooklyn with T-14, Illinois, Notre Dame and Loyola all vying for Chicago spots.




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