Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

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Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Poll ended at Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:46 pm

Marquette
9
50%
Chapman
3
17%
Gonzaga$
6
33%
 
Total votes: 18

wh3931110
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:27 pm

Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Postby wh3931110 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:46 pm

I am sure these options seem bizarre but after consideration these are the three options it looks like I am going to decide between. I know that some peoples sentiment may be not to attend any of these schools but I ask if that is the case please keep it to yourself as I am excited to attend one of these schools.

Marquette and Chapman gave me practically no money while Gonzaga gave me a half scholarship, however, it comes with a hefty GPA stipulation that requires top 20% of the class.

In terms of location obviously Chapman takes the cake but I did not apply with the mindset that I have to attend up in California... I could live/practice regionally and be happy at either Marquette or Chapman (I think for Gonzaga I would have hopes to end up in Seattle).

I do not have a specific area of study that I am necessarily looking at... I will say Marquette's sports law program is appealing is Chapman's entertainment law program.

Finally how much emphasis should I put on Marquette being ranked higher than both of the other two? Also, they are opening up a beautiful new law building which may bring them even further up the rankings, should this influence my decision?

Sorry if this is long just wanted to get all the details out, I will provide my opinion to anyone who helps me out. Thank you for your time!!!

Feel free to also PM your opinions any help is greatly appreciated!

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S de Garmeaux
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Re: Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Postby S de Garmeaux » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:17 pm

If you go to Chapman, you will be competing with grads from

USC
UCLA
UCI
Loyola (also has an excellent entertainment law program)
Southwestern
USD
Boalt
Stanford


they are trying to up their game, but at $39,000/yr for T3....

Have you looked at placement stats for the 3 schools? I hear good things regarding Gonzaga and the PNW's relatively unsaturated market.

Philaw
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:49 pm

Re: Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Postby Philaw » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:26 pm

S de Garmeaux wrote:If you go to Chapman, you will be competing with grads from

USC
UCLA
UCI
Loyola (also has an excellent entertainment law program)
Southwestern
USD
Boalt
Stanford


they are trying to up their game, but at $39,000/yr for T3....

Have you looked at placement stats for the 3 schools? I hear good things regarding Gonzaga and the PNW's relatively unsaturated market.



It is unless he wants to end up in Seattle, which he will be competing with UW and Seattle U. I'm from the PNW, and I played hockey in Spokane quite a bit. Gotta tell ya...not a really great city. It's kind of in a big basin where the smog just sits, so air quality sucks, even though you are in a forrested area. It will snow and then promptly get to a semi-melting temperature, so you end up with tons of brown slush all over the roads which kills your car and anything else you hope to keep clean. They do have a relatively nice hockey rink that I used to play at, but our house teams used to kill their rep teams. :P

However, in terms of the actual school, I like Gonzaga, I just don't know if you would want to go there for law school if you don't want to practice in Spokane or Central/Southern Washington. Their employment rate 9 mo. after graduation is just a shade under 90% if I remember correctly, though most of those unemployed are shown as pursuing graduate degrees rather than simply being unemployed, as I remember them still having a low unemployment rate, even if their employment rate isn't very high.


Just do you research. I don't think Gonzaga is a bad school by any means, so don't get me wrong. I just don't think it is an "everybody" school.

wh3931110
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Postby wh3931110 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:35 pm

S de Garmeaux wrote:If you go to Chapman, you will be competing with grads from

USC
UCLA
UCI
Loyola (also has an excellent entertainment law program)
Southwestern
USD
Boalt
Stanford


they are trying to up their game, but at $39,000/yr for T3....

Have you looked at placement stats for the 3 schools? I hear good things regarding Gonzaga and the PNW's relatively unsaturated market.



I have looked at placement from a variety of sources. Although Chapman does have steep competition from those schools you mentioned it does seem to have a pretty good hold on Orange County and if you believe the advertising by both the school and students it would seem their rep is expanding. Marquette places well in the midwest and as the only school in Milwaukee has a lock on that market. Gonzaga does have good placement in the PNW but I think if I went there again I would want to practice in Seattle.

Specifically on LSN I looked at OCI and both Marquette and Chapman seem to draw a decent number of firms where Gonzaga does not, should I place any weight on that as far as job placement is concerned?

td6624
Posts: 551
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Re: Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Postby td6624 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:39 pm

Have you visited Milwaukee? Marquette seems to have a solid reputation in the midwest, just from what I've heard from normal people and normal midwestern attorneys.

Philaw
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:49 pm

Re: Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Postby Philaw » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:44 pm

td6624 wrote:Have you visited Milwaukee? Marquette seems to have a solid reputation in the midwest, just from what I've heard from normal people and normal midwestern attorneys.


I'm still in review at Marquette and it's my #1 school at this point, so out of selfishness I hope you don't go, but my sister lives with her husband in Milwaukee and they love it. They have friends that went to MU Law and are very successful, and overall, Milwaukee, and Wisconsin in general still has a solid economy which is nothing to scoff at in this day and age.

I voted Marquette, but if you choose to attend Chapman or Gonzaga, I'd be grateful. :wink:

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jcl2
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Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:27 pm

Re: Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Postby jcl2 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:45 pm

wh3931110 wrote:
S de Garmeaux wrote:If you go to Chapman, you will be competing with grads from

USC
UCLA
UCI
Loyola (also has an excellent entertainment law program)
Southwestern
USD
Boalt
Stanford


they are trying to up their game, but at $39,000/yr for T3....

Have you looked at placement stats for the 3 schools? I hear good things regarding Gonzaga and the PNW's relatively unsaturated market.



I have looked at placement from a variety of sources. Although Chapman does have steep competition from those schools you mentioned it does seem to have a pretty good hold on Orange County and if you believe the advertising by both the school and students it would seem their rep is expanding. Marquette places well in the midwest and as the only school in Milwaukee has a lock on that market. Gonzaga does have good placement in the PNW but I think if I went there again I would want to practice in Seattle.

Specifically on LSN I looked at OCI and both Marquette and Chapman seem to draw a decent number of firms where Gonzaga does not, should I place any weight on that as far as job placement is concerned?


I wouldn't go to Gonzaga with the hopes of ending up in Seattle. Its placement and reputation is primarily in eastern/central Washington and Idaho, and to a lesser extent the more rural parts of western Washington. I know several relatively successful attorneys in Yakima who went to Gonazaga, but trust me you don't want to end up in Yakima. There are, however, some great places in eastern Washington and if a smaller city or town lifestyle and law practice appeals to you, Gonzaga is probably the best option, otherwise I guess I would go with Marquette, though it is a tough call.

wh3931110
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Postby wh3931110 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:38 pm

Philaw wrote:
td6624 wrote:Have you visited Milwaukee? Marquette seems to have a solid reputation in the midwest, just from what I've heard from normal people and normal midwestern attorneys.


I'm still in review at Marquette and it's my #1 school at this point, so out of selfishness I hope you don't go, but my sister lives with her husband in Milwaukee and they love it. They have friends that went to MU Law and are very successful, and overall, Milwaukee, and Wisconsin in general still has a solid economy which is nothing to scoff at in this day and age.

I voted Marquette, but if you choose to attend Chapman or Gonzaga, I'd be grateful. :wink:


I did visit Milwaukee and the school (although I did not get to see the new building as it was not possible to get a tour) and I had a pretty positive experience. Can I ask why it is your number one choice? I hope to have a decision this weekend so if I do not decide on Marquette I will make sure to withdraw immediately with the recommendation they admit you : )

I appreciate all the input so far... the more the better!

wh3931110
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Postby wh3931110 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:04 pm

any more opinions?

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amputatedbrain
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Re: Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Postby amputatedbrain » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:51 am

S de Garmeaux wrote:If you go to Chapman, you will be competing with grads from

USC
UCLA
UCI
Loyola (also has an excellent entertainment law program)
Southwestern
USD
Boalt
Stanford


they are trying to up their game, but at $39,000/yr for T3....

Have you looked at placement stats for the 3 schools? I hear good things regarding Gonzaga and the PNW's relatively unsaturated market.



I know you qualified this with "relatively" but it's still wrong. I'm from the PNW, and having talked to a lot of people in researching law schools, all I hear about is how UW grads are getting shut out of the job market because Seattle is so oversaturated, and if UW grads get shut out, Gonzaga grads are going to be doing much worse. Not saying the CA options are great either, but I would very much doubt Gonzaga is any better.

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A'nold
Posts: 3622
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Re: Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Postby A'nold » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:00 am

jcl2 wrote:
wh3931110 wrote:
S de Garmeaux wrote:If you go to Chapman, you will be competing with grads from

USC
UCLA
UCI
Loyola (also has an excellent entertainment law program)
Southwestern
USD
Boalt
Stanford


they are trying to up their game, but at $39,000/yr for T3....

Have you looked at placement stats for the 3 schools? I hear good things regarding Gonzaga and the PNW's relatively unsaturated market.



I have looked at placement from a variety of sources. Although Chapman does have steep competition from those schools you mentioned it does seem to have a pretty good hold on Orange County and if you believe the advertising by both the school and students it would seem their rep is expanding. Marquette places well in the midwest and as the only school in Milwaukee has a lock on that market. Gonzaga does have good placement in the PNW but I think if I went there again I would want to practice in Seattle.

Specifically on LSN I looked at OCI and both Marquette and Chapman seem to draw a decent number of firms where Gonzaga does not, should I place any weight on that as far as job placement is concerned?


I wouldn't go to Gonzaga with the hopes of ending up in Seattle. Its placement and reputation is primarily in eastern/central Washington and Idaho, and to a lesser extent the more rural parts of western Washington. I know several relatively successful attorneys in Yakima who went to Gonazaga, but trust me you don't want to end up in Yakima. There are, however, some great places in eastern Washington and if a smaller city or town lifestyle and law practice appeals to you, Gonzaga is probably the best option, otherwise I guess I would go with Marquette, though it is a tough call.


Lifetime Washantonian here, and I have to tell you, Spokane (I was just up there last week) seems like an absolute crap hole. I've heard it called "Spo-compton" at least once in my life. I've heard it has a really bad problem with meth labs and there are tons of homeless people everywhere. I'm not saying that I hate homeless people, it's just that they seem to be everywhere and the city looks very run down and dirty. Some people may like it but I'm not a fan based on the few times I've been there and the reputation it has around the NW.

Also, most of Eastern Washington sucks IMO (I lived there for awhile and visit constantly). It is dusty, freaking hot, and just a wasteland of sagebrush. It is not really the most educated area either, for the most part. I have a lot of family that live in various places east of the Cascades and I am just not impressed with any place I've ever been in Eastern WA.

If people really think Marquette and the area is a good option, I think I'd go there if I were you. Oh yeah, and I've also heard that Seattle and the NW in general to a lesser extent is EXTREMELY oversaturated.

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jcl2
Posts: 482
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:27 pm

Re: Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Postby jcl2 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:01 am

A'nold wrote:
jcl2 wrote:
wh3931110 wrote:
S de Garmeaux wrote:If you go to Chapman, you will be competing with grads from

USC
UCLA
UCI
Loyola (also has an excellent entertainment law program)
Southwestern
USD
Boalt
Stanford


they are trying to up their game, but at $39,000/yr for T3....

Have you looked at placement stats for the 3 schools? I hear good things regarding Gonzaga and the PNW's relatively unsaturated market.



I have looked at placement from a variety of sources. Although Chapman does have steep competition from those schools you mentioned it does seem to have a pretty good hold on Orange County and if you believe the advertising by both the school and students it would seem their rep is expanding. Marquette places well in the midwest and as the only school in Milwaukee has a lock on that market. Gonzaga does have good placement in the PNW but I think if I went there again I would want to practice in Seattle.

Specifically on LSN I looked at OCI and both Marquette and Chapman seem to draw a decent number of firms where Gonzaga does not, should I place any weight on that as far as job placement is concerned?


I wouldn't go to Gonzaga with the hopes of ending up in Seattle. Its placement and reputation is primarily in eastern/central Washington and Idaho, and to a lesser extent the more rural parts of western Washington. I know several relatively successful attorneys in Yakima who went to Gonazaga, but trust me you don't want to end up in Yakima. There are, however, some great places in eastern Washington and if a smaller city or town lifestyle and law practice appeals to you, Gonzaga is probably the best option, otherwise I guess I would go with Marquette, though it is a tough call.


Lifetime Washantonian here, and I have to tell you, Spokane (I was just up there last week) seems like an absolute crap hole. I've heard it called "Spo-compton" at least once in my life. I've heard it has a really bad problem with meth labs and there are tons of homeless people everywhere. I'm not saying that I hate homeless people, it's just that they seem to be everywhere and the city looks very run down and dirty. Some people may like it but I'm not a fan based on the few times I've been there and the reputation it has around the NW.

Also, most of Eastern Washington sucks IMO (I lived there for awhile and visit constantly). It is dusty, freaking hot, and just a wasteland of sagebrush. It is not really the most educated area either, for the most part. I have a lot of family that live in various places east of the Cascades and I am just not impressed with any place I've ever been in Eastern WA.

If people really think Marquette and the area is a good option, I think I'd go there if I were you. Oh yeah, and I've also heard that Seattle and the NW in general to a lesser extent is EXTREMELY oversaturated.


There are some nice parts of eastern Washington, it is mostly desert or short grass prairie and relatively rural though, so you have to appreciate those things. The seasons can also be pretty extreme, which some people don't like. Spokane has a nice downtown, but overall I agree that it is not a great city. Wenatchee, Ellensburg, and Walla Wall are all pretty nice cities. I've lived in Ellensburg for 8 years and have really enjoyed it, though I am totally ready to move back to the other side of the mountains, but I work in Yakima and it is a total sh#$ hole. I wouldn't recommend living in Yakima or anywhere in the lower Yakima valley to anyone, drugs and gang violence are out of control here, I think it is actually rated as one of the most dangerous cities in the US.

That aside, I think the oversaturation of the legal market in the PNW is mostly just in biglaw, outside of biglaw the demand for lawyers should be proportional to the population, and the NW does have fewer law students per capita than most of the country. So my speculation is that the non biglaw job market in the PNW is not too bad, at least relative to most other places.

Philaw
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:49 pm

Re: Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Postby Philaw » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:14 am

A'nold wrote:
jcl2 wrote:
wh3931110 wrote:
S de Garmeaux wrote:If you go to Chapman, you will be competing with grads from

USC
UCLA
UCI
Loyola (also has an excellent entertainment law program)
Southwestern
USD
Boalt
Stanford


they are trying to up their game, but at $39,000/yr for T3....

Have you looked at placement stats for the 3 schools? I hear good things regarding Gonzaga and the PNW's relatively unsaturated market.



I have looked at placement from a variety of sources. Although Chapman does have steep competition from those schools you mentioned it does seem to have a pretty good hold on Orange County and if you believe the advertising by both the school and students it would seem their rep is expanding. Marquette places well in the midwest and as the only school in Milwaukee has a lock on that market. Gonzaga does have good placement in the PNW but I think if I went there again I would want to practice in Seattle.

Specifically on LSN I looked at OCI and both Marquette and Chapman seem to draw a decent number of firms where Gonzaga does not, should I place any weight on that as far as job placement is concerned?


I wouldn't go to Gonzaga with the hopes of ending up in Seattle. Its placement and reputation is primarily in eastern/central Washington and Idaho, and to a lesser extent the more rural parts of western Washington. I know several relatively successful attorneys in Yakima who went to Gonazaga, but trust me you don't want to end up in Yakima. There are, however, some great places in eastern Washington and if a smaller city or town lifestyle and law practice appeals to you, Gonzaga is probably the best option, otherwise I guess I would go with Marquette, though it is a tough call.


Lifetime Washantonian here, and I have to tell you, Spokane (I was just up there last week) seems like an absolute crap hole. I've heard it called "Spo-compton" at least once in my life. I've heard it has a really bad problem with meth labs and there are tons of homeless people everywhere. I'm not saying that I hate homeless people, it's just that they seem to be everywhere and the city looks very run down and dirty. Some people may like it but I'm not a fan based on the few times I've been there and the reputation it has around the NW.

Also, most of Eastern Washington sucks IMO (I lived there for awhile and visit constantly). It is dusty, freaking hot, and just a wasteland of sagebrush. It is not really the most educated area either, for the most part. I have a lot of family that live in various places east of the Cascades and I am just not impressed with any place I've ever been in Eastern WA.

If people really think Marquette and the area is a good option, I think I'd go there if I were you. Oh yeah, and I've also heard that Seattle and the NW in general to a lesser extent is EXTREMELY oversaturated.


It's not the most educated with the exception of the Tri-Cities...With most of the government trades workers from Hanford, there are tons of very educated and skilled indivudals in the Tri-Cities. Granted the younger generation is a mix of spoiled brats who want to be Lil' Wayne, mixed in with some Cholos in Pasco and Kennewick who have never really needed to be gangsta and just think its cool for a Mexican kid, but what is different abuot that than many places on the West Coast? Your assessment of Spokane I would completely agree with, and meth in Washington is a huge problem period.

Now as far as why Marquette is my number one, there are several reasons. First, I like the school and I want to do one of their joint degree programs. Second, I have family who live there and through that family will have a many doors opened into the legal community. Third, the bar privilege from Wisconsin and Marquette is huge in my opinion. And fourth, I've heard Milwaukee is great, the economy is strong there and in Wisconsin as a whole, and this is huge in comparison to the rest of the country. It's cold, but I'm a hockey player.

jfr1184
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:17 pm

Re: Marquette v. Chapman v. Gonzaga

Postby jfr1184 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:53 am

I would choose Gonzaga. The scholarship stipulation will be an added incentive to work hard and do well. And if you do end up in the top 20%, you might be in a good position to transfer.

Marquette has its merits. It is the only school in Milwaukee, and the new building opening next year will be a HUGE improvement over its current location. But my gut feeling is that any advantage in the job market with Marquette isn't worth the higher price tag. By my estimate, Marquette will cost around $160K, while Gonzaga will cost around $90K. That amounts to around $70K more in debt, which could end up consuming a large portion of your montly net income for an additional decade or more.




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