Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Please read my post before voting (totals are debt not scholly.)

Michigan - $115,000 of Debt
93
73%
Texas - $50,000 of Debt
14
11%
UGA - $0 of Debt
18
14%
Bama - $0 of Debt and stipend.
3
2%
 
Total votes: 128

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doinmybest
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Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby doinmybest » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:12 am

deleted
Last edited by doinmybest on Wed May 19, 2010 9:40 am, edited 4 times in total.

starsong
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby starsong » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:14 am

Michigan. Go for the highest-ranked school you can. Job prospects > less debt.

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ogman05
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby ogman05 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:16 am

I say the decision is between Mich and UGA at this point. You want to work in the Atlanta area so UT is out. It is gonna pull the strongest in texas. Once you leave texas I dont think saving 50k over Mich would be worth it in that case. And personally given Mich sticker and UGA full ride I would choose. Mich. Now if it was UMich sticker and UT full that would be a different story.

utswdukie80
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby utswdukie80 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:20 am

I chose UGA for two reasons: 1) you're scared to death of debt and you get to go to a good law school for free (excluding COL) and 2) you want to practice in either Atlanta or South Florida and UGA has a strong reputation in Atlanta and a lot of alumni connections there, too.

rando
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby rando » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:23 am

just about zero chance of academia if you go to UGA

Ghost Writer
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby Ghost Writer » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:25 am

Go with Michigan. You will have a job and the national reach if you ever decide to switch locations or want to de academia on another part of the country.

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holydonkey
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby holydonkey » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:25 am

ogman05 wrote:I say the decision is between Mich and UGA at this point. You want to work in the Atlanta area so UT is out. It is gonna pull the strongest in texas. Once you leave texas I dont think saving 50k over Mich would be worth it in that case. And personally given Mich sticker and UGA full ride I would choose. Mich. Now if it was UMich sticker and UT full that would be a different story.

+1 No reason to choose Texas here. I feel your pain in considering Michigan at sticker. If you haven't already, go visit both UGA and Michigan. If UGA seems like it's going to get you a good job in Atlanta, take UGA. If the students at UGA all say they'd bail their school for the chance to go to Michigan, take Michigan. Debt is scary. Infinite Doc Review Job is scarier.

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doinmybest
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby doinmybest » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:26 am

I keep hearing that UGA 1Ls & 2Ls are getting hit really hard for internships right now. I'm wondering if Mich would place better in Atlanta or South Florida ITE.

djgoldbe
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby djgoldbe » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:29 am

I voted UGA but I think it depends a bit on exactly what type of job you want. If you are satisfied with a fairly average biglaw job and are confident in your ability to do well at UGA, I would go there (also if you have any desire for PI). If you want a shot at a more prestigious biglaw/clerkship/academia job, go with Mich. So, if you are going to pick Mich I would say you should really be SURE of what you want to do and how happy your going to be doing it for at least ~10 years to pay off those loans.

insidethetwenty
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby insidethetwenty » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:34 am

I think this question definitely comes down to a) your desire to clerk/practice in BigLaw/pursue academia vs. b) your debt-aversion.

There is no question that Michigan is the best school to help you achieve your stated goals for your career. That said, it is not impossible for a graduate of UGA to get a clerkship and a position in academia. You will have to be top 5% or so in your class, serve on the editorial board of the Law Review, and try to make connections with local judges. Often, judges want to take top-notch kids from their local schools, especially if those schools are T1's.

I can't, in good conscience, recommend that you take on $150,000 worth of debt. I just can't do it. You ultimately have to decide whether you want the best opportunity and the highest debt, or the smallest opportunity with no debt. Keep in mind, though, that the smallest opportunity isn't zero opportunity.

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doinmybest
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby doinmybest » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:34 am

djgoldbe wrote:I voted UGA but I think it depends a bit on exactly what type of job you want. If you are satisfied with a fairly average biglaw job and are confident in your ability to do well at UGA, I would go there (also if you have any desire for PI). If you want a shot at a more prestigious biglaw/clerkship/academia job, go with Mich. So, if you are going to pick Mich I would say you should really be SURE of what you want to do and how happy your going to be doing it for at least ~10 years to pay off those loans.



I'm not entirely sure what I want, but I am kinda leaning towards a good clerkship that would probably be my first choice if money wasn't a factor. I'm not sure of my ability to do well at UGA. I'm not counting on being top of my class at either Mich or UGA, although I will "do my best" haha pardon the pun.

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Shot007
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby Shot007 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:37 am

It would probably take about 10 years (assuming you get a better job from going to Michigan) to offset the 150k debt....but that being said even for big law you would need to be in the top 20% of UGA to have a decent shot. The fact that you want to practice in Georgia really complicates things, and that might be the tipping point to chosoing UGA, if I was in that situation.

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby TheBigMediocre » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:49 am

SEC vs. Big-10?

No Brainer.

djgoldbe
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby djgoldbe » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:52 am

doinmybest wrote:
djgoldbe wrote:I voted UGA but I think it depends a bit on exactly what type of job you want. If you are satisfied with a fairly average biglaw job and are confident in your ability to do well at UGA, I would go there (also if you have any desire for PI). If you want a shot at a more prestigious biglaw/clerkship/academia job, go with Mich. So, if you are going to pick Mich I would say you should really be SURE of what you want to do and how happy your going to be doing it for at least ~10 years to pay off those loans.



I'm not entirely sure what I want, but I am kinda leaning towards a good clerkship that would probably be my first choice if money wasn't a factor. I'm not sure of my ability to do well at UGA. I'm not counting on being top of my class at either Mich or UGA, although I will "do my best" haha pardon the pun.


Given that, along with your geographic preference, I would go with UGA.

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doinmybest
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby doinmybest » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:56 am

Wow, sooooo there are a lot more UGA votes than I thought there would be. Anyone from Michigan or deciding to go to Michigan have anything to add? When I made this thread I was leaning towards Michigan, but now I'm not sure.

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holydonkey
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby holydonkey » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:21 am

I keep thinking about the debt in my head and I go back and forth a lot.

I mean, for Michigan, if you can clerk for a federal judge, that's like 70k for a year right (from the clerks I've talked to). And then assuming a clerk bonus from a big/mid firm you're making 120-170k for at least the 3 years you're an associate with them. If you take out 150k debt and are able to pay back 10k the first year and 40k years 2-5, you're done with almost all of the debt and interest in about 5 years. And you've set yourself up nicely for a lateral move/another clerkship/government.

If you aren't able to get the clerkship from UGA and have to settle for mid/small law, you're making 50-100k strait out (assuming a job) which is awesome with no debt. You're an associate for three years with a decent/good salary, but then what? Maybe you make partner or stay a senior associate. Maybe you have to lateral to another mid/small firm, but it really doesn't seem like you'd have the same options as someone from a T10.

I figure worst case at T30 is unemployment, worst case at Michigan is you have to stay in Michigan and be one of the 3% working in Detroit in a mid firm that loves you for your degree if not for your gpa. Of course, living in Detroit is a whole different kind of hell.

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby TheBigMediocre » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:35 am

holydonkey wrote:I keep thinking about the debt in my head and I go back and forth a lot.

I mean, for Michigan, if you can clerk for a federal judge, that's like 70k for a year right (from the clerks I've talked to). And then assuming a clerk bonus from a big/mid firm you're making 120-170k for at least the 3 years you're an associate with them. If you take out 150k debt and are able to pay back 10k the first year and 40k years 2-5, you're done with almost all of the debt and interest in about 5 years. And you've set yourself up nicely for a lateral move/another clerkship/government.

If you aren't able to get the clerkship from UGA and have to settle for mid/small law, you're making 50-100k strait out (assuming a job) which is awesome with no debt. You're an associate for three years with a decent/good salary, but then what? Maybe you make partner or stay a senior associate. Maybe you have to lateral to another mid/small firm, but it really doesn't seem like you'd have the same options as someone from a T10.

I figure worst case at T30 is unemployment, worst case at Michigan is you have to stay in Michigan and be one of the 3% working in Detroit in a mid firm that loves you for your degree if not for your gpa. Of course, living in Detroit is a whole different kind of hell.


FYI, this is an extremely rosy (dare I say unrealistic) outlook on how fast you can pay off debt unless you live solely for that purpose.

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doinmybest
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby doinmybest » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:37 am

holydonkey wrote:
I mean, for Michigan, if you can clerk for a federal judge, that's like 70k for a year right (from the clerks I've talked to). And then assuming a clerk bonus from a big/mid firm you're making 120-170k for at least the 3 years you're an associate with them. If you take out 150k debt and are able to pay back 10k the first year and 40k years 2-5, you're done with almost all of the debt and interest in about 5 years. And you've set yourself up nicely for a lateral move/another clerkship/government.


Debt paid in 5 years, and a federal clerkship? This sounds like my ideal scenario. If it was guaranteed, I'd chose Mich in a heartbeat.

holydonkey wrote:
If you aren't able to get the clerkship from UGA and have to settle for mid/small law, you're making 50-100k strait out (assuming a job) which is awesome with no debt. You're an associate for three years with a decent/good salary, but then what? Maybe you make partner or stay a senior associate. Maybe you have to lateral to another mid/small firm, but it really doesn't seem like you'd have the same options as someone from a T10.


Hmmm not really an ideal situation... but it is more safe.

holydonkey wrote:
Of course, living in Detroit is a whole different kind of hell.


I would do everything in my power to prevent this situation from happening.

dreman510
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby dreman510 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:44 am

Michigan

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holydonkey
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby holydonkey » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:44 am

TheBigMediocre wrote:
holydonkey wrote:If you take out 150k debt and are able to pay back 10k the first year and 40k years 2-5, you're done with almost all of the debt and interest in about 5 years

FYI, this is an extremely rosy (dare I say unrealistic) outlook on how fast you can pay off debt unless you live solely for that purpose.

Oh it's definitely fast. However, I currently make less than 40k and live in an expensive area, I could easily live on 50k after law school (I'll need to buy a few suits :) ) and devote the rest to debt payments. I'd rather be the guy with no debt and an Aveo than the guy with a Charger and debt (Charger is a highend car to me, this should tell you something).

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UF Gators
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby UF Gators » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:45 am

TheBigMediocre wrote:
holydonkey wrote:I keep thinking about the debt in my head and I go back and forth a lot.

I mean, for Michigan, if you can clerk for a federal judge, that's like 70k for a year right (from the clerks I've talked to). And then assuming a clerk bonus from a big/mid firm you're making 120-170k for at least the 3 years you're an associate with them. If you take out 150k debt and are able to pay back 10k the first year and 40k years 2-5, you're done with almost all of the debt and interest in about 5 years. And you've set yourself up nicely for a lateral move/another clerkship/government.

If you aren't able to get the clerkship from UGA and have to settle for mid/small law, you're making 50-100k strait out (assuming a job) which is awesome with no debt. You're an associate for three years with a decent/good salary, but then what? Maybe you make partner or stay a senior associate. Maybe you have to lateral to another mid/small firm, but it really doesn't seem like you'd have the same options as someone from a T10.

I figure worst case at T30 is unemployment, worst case at Michigan is you have to stay in Michigan and be one of the 3% working in Detroit in a mid firm that loves you for your degree if not for your gpa. Of course, living in Detroit is a whole different kind of hell.


FYI, this is an extremely rosy (dare I say unrealistic) outlook on how fast you can pay off debt unless you live solely for that purpose.

If you are making over 120k there is no reason why you can't pay off $150k debt in five years unless you have children.

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pinkzeppelin
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby pinkzeppelin » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:48 am

I think you should think more concretely about what you want. It sounds like you want to keep every door open if that's a possibility. I understand the predicament: until you know what you want after law school, you can't know what law school to go to, and you won't know what you want to do after law school until you're in law school. I would say, buckle down and start doing loads of research and introspection. Once you have a firm grasp of the elements of the possible careers, talk to your closest friends and family and ask them if it seems like something they could see you doing. If you find that after all this analysis you still can't choose, I would say go to Michigan, it will leave the most doors open, but will certainly cost you. If you find that Atlanta BigLaw is definitely what you want to do, then choose UGA in a heartbeat.

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Jay-Electronica
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby Jay-Electronica » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:49 am

lets not forget about interest

lawschooliseasy
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby lawschooliseasy » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:54 am

UF Gators wrote:
TheBigMediocre wrote:
holydonkey wrote:I keep thinking about the debt in my head and I go back and forth a lot.

I mean, for Michigan, if you can clerk for a federal judge, that's like 70k for a year right (from the clerks I've talked to). And then assuming a clerk bonus from a big/mid firm you're making 120-170k for at least the 3 years you're an associate with them. If you take out 150k debt and are able to pay back 10k the first year and 40k years 2-5, you're done with almost all of the debt and interest in about 5 years. And you've set yourself up nicely for a lateral move/another clerkship/government.

If you aren't able to get the clerkship from UGA and have to settle for mid/small law, you're making 50-100k strait out (assuming a job) which is awesome with no debt. You're an associate for three years with a decent/good salary, but then what? Maybe you make partner or stay a senior associate. Maybe you have to lateral to another mid/small firm, but it really doesn't seem like you'd have the same options as someone from a T10.

I figure worst case at T30 is unemployment, worst case at Michigan is you have to stay in Michigan and be one of the 3% working in Detroit in a mid firm that loves you for your degree if not for your gpa. Of course, living in Detroit is a whole different kind of hell.


FYI, this is an extremely rosy (dare I say unrealistic) outlook on how fast you can pay off debt unless you live solely for that purpose.

If you are making over 120k there is no reason why you can't pay off $150k debt in five years unless you have children.


It depends where you live.

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UF Gators
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Re: Help me decide, T10, T15 or T30?????

Postby UF Gators » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:57 am

lawschooliseasy wrote:
UF Gators wrote:
TheBigMediocre wrote:
holydonkey wrote:I keep thinking about the debt in my head and I go back and forth a lot.

I mean, for Michigan, if you can clerk for a federal judge, that's like 70k for a year right (from the clerks I've talked to). And then assuming a clerk bonus from a big/mid firm you're making 120-170k for at least the 3 years you're an associate with them. If you take out 150k debt and are able to pay back 10k the first year and 40k years 2-5, you're done with almost all of the debt and interest in about 5 years. And you've set yourself up nicely for a lateral move/another clerkship/government.

If you aren't able to get the clerkship from UGA and have to settle for mid/small law, you're making 50-100k strait out (assuming a job) which is awesome with no debt. You're an associate for three years with a decent/good salary, but then what? Maybe you make partner or stay a senior associate. Maybe you have to lateral to another mid/small firm, but it really doesn't seem like you'd have the same options as someone from a T10.

I figure worst case at T30 is unemployment, worst case at Michigan is you have to stay in Michigan and be one of the 3% working in Detroit in a mid firm that loves you for your degree if not for your gpa. Of course, living in Detroit is a whole different kind of hell.


FYI, this is an extremely rosy (dare I say unrealistic) outlook on how fast you can pay off debt unless you live solely for that purpose.

If you are making over 120k there is no reason why you can't pay off $150k debt in five years unless you have children.


It depends where you live.

Well I would never live in NYC or SanFran but I did live in a fairly expensive west coast city and my salary for the year was a little under $11k. I can budget my ass off.




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