IN THIS ECONOMY

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publiuspublicola
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IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby publiuspublicola » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:37 pm

I thought it would be interesting to start a thread about the practical decisions that the current dismal legal market is forcing 0l's to consider. Are you reconsidering paying full ticket to a top10 out of your region just because it is t10? Are you giving more consideration to a tier 3 or 4 school because it feeds firms in your city of interest?

My situation can be the first example. To be fair, I am lucky in my choices:
Iowa (full scholly) v Illinois (full scholly) v WUSTL (full scholly) v Vandy (half ticket) with Michigan decision still pending (and maybe a WL it inevitable this late in the cycle, even if my numbers are in their top25%).

In 2007, maybe I wait to hear from Michigan and consider paying full ticket or taking small $ from them instead of the others. Maybe I go to Vandy because in biglaw placement it is better than any of the above.

But, as a KC, MO native married to a KC native looking to settle down and practice law in KC, I am fairly set on WUSTL, the strongest in the region (perhaps with only Iowa vying for KC jobs). Yes, it's new kid on the block nationally. Yes WUSTL gets flamed on here regularly (and takes even worse on other forums). But it's a strong school, I expect a high quality education, and I imagine my prospects in KC will be about as good as one can hope in the current climate. And importantly, combined with my wife's income, little to no extra debt.

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Bronte
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby Bronte » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:52 pm

Sounds like you're making the right decision. I'm taking sticker at a T10 (over very similar offers, including a near-full-ride at WUSTL) because it's the only option that fulfills my criteria, namely: (1) a strong chance at a big law firm in a money center--New York or Chicago--and (2) the option to return to one of the big law firms in my home market, a secondary market.

My other options would provide me with less debt, but significantly reduce my chances at big city big law and essentially eliminate the option to return to my home market. I am, however, very concerned about the debt.

lakerfanimal
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby lakerfanimal » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:55 pm

I think not only in this economy but even in the economy before, it always depends on where you want to work. For smaller markets like KC, if you're set on being there, then I think it always makes more sense to go with the regional school if you're looking for a decent job after graduating in the smaller market. If you want prestigious PI jobs, academia, or want to crack a large market, then it becomes a tougher choice. OP, I think WUSTL makes perfect sense for you too man.

miamiman
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby miamiman » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:57 pm

Wait..so the point of this thread is to:


1) validate the almost always poor decision to attend wustl? (Or seek external validation)

2) rehash all of the same points covered elsewhere in this forum?

3) run through all of the cool schools you've gotten into and drop your scholly amts?

4) all of the above?

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Jay-Electronica
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby Jay-Electronica » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:59 pm

miamiman wrote:Wait..so the point of me coming into this thread is to:

be a douche


fixt

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publiuspublicola
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby publiuspublicola » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:02 pm

miamiman wrote:Wait..so the point of this thread is to:


1) validate the almost always poor decision to attend wustl? (Or seek external validation)

2) rehash all of the same points covered elsewhere in this forum?

3) run through all of the cool schools you've gotten into and drop your scholly amts?

4) all of the above?


5) None of the above.

The point is exactly what I said it was: "I thought it would be interesting to start a thread about the practical decisions that the current dismal legal market is forcing 0l's to consider. Are you reconsidering paying full ticket to a top10 out of your region just because it is t10? Are you giving more consideration to a tier 3 or 4 school because it feeds firms in your city of interest."

Is talking about scholly's to t20 programs really bragging on TLS? No. Is talking about wanting to settle in KC anywhere remotely looking for validation? Don't make me laugh.

And so far as I know, the only other threads about the economy is the big thread on admissions, which is mostly people freaking out about jobs. This is about decisions OLs are trying to make and why they are making them.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby AngryAvocado » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:02 pm

--ImageRemoved--

miamiman
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby miamiman » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:02 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
miamiman wrote:Wait..so the point of me coming into this thread is to:

be a douche


fixt


Its cute when you use lolcat parlance to cut me down.

Ill let you all have your ITE circle-jerk

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bees
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby bees » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:13 pm

publiuspublicola wrote:And so far as I know, the only other threads about the economy is the big thread on admissions, which is mostly people freaking out about jobs. This is about decisions OLs are trying to make and why they are making them.


You haven't been around very long. There have been countless threads on this exact topic.

And freaking out about jobs is exactly what people should be doing.

TigerBeer
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby TigerBeer » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:14 pm

miamiman wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
miamiman wrote:Wait..so the point of me coming into this thread is to:

be a douche


fixt


ur rite im a douche

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Bronte
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby Bronte » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:21 pm

bees wrote:You haven't been around very long. There have been countless threads on this exact topic.

And freaking out about jobs is exactly what people should be doing.


Well, I have been around for a while, and I don't see why this thread is so invalid. Why do you guys feel the need to piss on a thread about making law school decisions? That's the purpose of this subforum. Of course it's been discussed before. And it will be discussed again and again and again.

viking138
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby viking138 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:44 pm

I think it's a really intelligent idea. Going on a full ride to the powerhouse in the region you want to live and work in is great. This is especially true if you're married and both of you want to settle in that area.

However for the people who really want to be working at the top of their profession in the center of the American legal world (New York), taking sticker at a T10 is probably the right choice. In your situation though it seems like WUSTL is the right school to choose.

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98234872348
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby 98234872348 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:51 pm

publiuspublicola wrote:I thought it would be interesting to start a thread about the practical decisions that the current dismal legal market is forcing 0l's to consider. Are you reconsidering paying full ticket to a top10 out of your region just because it is t10? Are you giving more consideration to a tier 3 or 4 school because it feeds firms in your city of interest?

My situation can be the first example. To be fair, I am lucky in my choices:
Iowa (full scholly) v Illinois (full scholly) v WUSTL (full scholly) v Vandy (half ticket) with Michigan decision still pending (and maybe a WL it inevitable this late in the cycle, even if my numbers are in their top25%).

In 2007, maybe I wait to hear from Michigan and consider paying full ticket or taking small $ from them instead of the others. Maybe I go to Vandy because in biglaw placement it is better than any of the above.

But, as a KC, MO native married to a KC native looking to settle down and practice law in KC, I am fairly set on WUSTL, the strongest in the region (perhaps with only Iowa vying for KC jobs). Yes, it's new kid on the block nationally. Yes WUSTL gets flamed on here regularly (and takes even worse on other forums). But it's a strong school, I expect a high quality education, and I imagine my prospects in KC will be about as good as one can hope in the current climate. And importantly, combined with my wife's income, little to no extra debt.

If your career goals are to achieve a moderately well paying job in the KC area, then by all means WUSTL is probably your best decision. If you are looking to make a ton of money at a prestigious firm, then you should wait out Mich and see if you can't get in off of the WL. I continue to believe that a T10 at sticker is a pretty good investment.

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publiuspublicola
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby publiuspublicola » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:58 pm

viking138 wrote:I think it's a really intelligent idea. Going on a full ride to the powerhouse in the region you want to live and work in is great. This is especially true if you're married and both of you want to settle in that area.

However for the people who really want to be working at the top of their profession in the center of the American legal world (New York), taking sticker at a T10 is probably the right choice. In your situation though it seems like WUSTL is the right school to choose.


Right, had I wanted to work in NY or Chicago, my decision would be different. In fact, my entire application cycle would have been different (different schools, different PS, etc.).

That is getting toward the point of my post. I chose KC for personal reasons, but I wonder are more thinking about mid- or small-market cities but think maybe in better circumstances they wouldn't have.

(Also, I have been around for longer than my profile created date implies and will stand by my point that this thread is not superfluous.)

Fark-o-vision
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby Fark-o-vision » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:07 pm

Not in a position to really discuss it, since I didn't get into any t10, but if I had numbers good enough to go to Chicago, I would take the (probable) money at UCLA or USC. I think, in this economy, you almost have to consider strong tier 1 schools in the city you want to work. For some cities that seems harder than others (New York, if my memory serves, has a glut of top ranked schools near the top of the list, but then nothing until tier 2).

That said, I don't buy the hype around Harvard grads having difficulty finding jobs. I've read the stories of three, and all three seemed have to have made terrible missteps. transferring into those schools seems to be the common denominator in the stories that I've heard.

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bees
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby bees » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:26 pm

Bronte wrote:
bees wrote:You haven't been around very long. There have been countless threads on this exact topic.

And freaking out about jobs is exactly what people should be doing.


Well, I have been around for a while, and I don't see why this thread is so invalid. Why do you guys feel the need to piss on a thread about making law school decisions? That's the purpose of this subforum. Of course it's been discussed before. And it will be discussed again and again and again.


Maybe it was the all caps title, the "I have a great, new idea for an interesting topic" attitude, and the fact that literally every post that has anything to do with someone selecting a law school or wondering if they should go to law school is about exactly the same thing that got to me. :)

But you are right, it is an imortant thing to talk about.

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chief915
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby chief915 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:40 pm

both Shook Hardy and Polsinelli Shughart like WUSTL grads, and they hire a lot from there. Going to WUSTL is going to give you an awesome shot at biglaw in Kansas City, moreso than UMKC law (unless you're like top 5-10 percent at UMKC). They also like Mizzou grads (both firms have a LOT of Mizzou alums), but no one is going to question you attending WashU over Mizzou considering your scholly offer. Honestly, you can't go wrong in the KC legal market with a degree from WashU, and getting it for next to nothing is a bargain given your future aspirations. Coming out with very little debt will leave you plenty of cash to buy a nice big house in JoCo if you get a big firm job. Good Luck!

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Doritos
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby Doritos » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:29 pm

Bronte wrote:Sounds like you're making the right decision. I'm taking sticker at a T10 (over very similar offers, including a near-full-ride at WUSTL) because it's the only option that fulfills my criteria, namely: (1) a strong chance at a big law firm in a money center--New York or Chicago--and (2) the option to return to one of the big law firms in my home market, a secondary market.

My other options would provide me with less debt, but significantly reduce my chances at big city big law and essentially eliminate the option to return to my home market. I am, however, very concerned about the debt.


I second everything you said. Doing the same thing for the same goals and turned down nice scholly offers. I hope we are right. If not, I'll save you a spot in line at the soup kitchen.

shavisimo2
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby shavisimo2 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:58 pm

Waiting to hear about USC financials, but I'm strongly considering taking a full ride to Temple (I'm from Philly) over USC if I don't receive a scholly and Illinois with a 30k per year scholly.

AllBusiness
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby AllBusiness » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:54 pm

More cute girls eating popcorn.
kthx

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Doritos
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby Doritos » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:37 pm

AllBusiness wrote:More cute girls eating popcorn.
kthx



Image

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publiuspublicola
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby publiuspublicola » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:56 pm

So it became a -real- decision now, and not just hypotheticals.
~full @ WUSTL v ~half @ Mich v ~half @ Vandy

...So do I stick to my guns above for the full scholly opportunity or come to heel now that I'm in a t10???

keg411
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby keg411 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:49 am

publiuspublicola wrote:So it became a -real- decision now, and not just hypotheticals.
~full @ WUSTL v ~half @ Mich v ~half @ Vandy

...So do I stick to my guns above for the full scholly opportunity or come to heel now that I'm in a t10???


Half @ Mich = take Mich. It's not like sticker @ Mich.

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publiuspublicola
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby publiuspublicola » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:13 pm

keg411 wrote:
publiuspublicola wrote:So it became a -real- decision now, and not just hypotheticals.
~full @ WUSTL v ~half @ Mich v ~half @ Vandy

...So do I stick to my guns above for the full scholly opportunity or come to heel now that I'm in a t10???


Half @ Mich = take Mich. It's not like sticker @ Mich.


Not so simple, though. If you read the OP, I want to practice in MO eventually, so I'd be taking on an extra 70K in debt going to Mich for not a significantly larger advantage.

keg411
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Re: IN THIS ECONOMY

Postby keg411 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:24 pm

publiuspublicola wrote:
keg411 wrote:
publiuspublicola wrote:So it became a -real- decision now, and not just hypotheticals.
~full @ WUSTL v ~half @ Mich v ~half @ Vandy

...So do I stick to my guns above for the full scholly opportunity or come to heel now that I'm in a t10???


Half @ Mich = take Mich. It's not like sticker @ Mich.


Not so simple, though. If you read the OP, I want to practice in MO eventually, so I'd be taking on an extra 70K in debt going to Mich for not a significantly larger advantage.


See if you can talk to someone at Michigan about their placement in KC. Also, you may want to talk to someone at WUSTL about it too. I imagine KC is a pretty small legal market and opportunities are limited; what are your plans for when you practice besides that you want to work in MO?




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