Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

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hanabana
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Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby hanabana » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:05 am

Hi everyone. I am making a decision between Hofstra Law and New York Law School, here are some concerns I have that will possibly affect my decisions:

Career Opportunities: having a JD from these schools, which one would give me a better shot at getting a job?

Commuting: I will have to drive to Hofstra, which would take around 30 minutes (without traffic). Commuting to NYLS will be approximately 1 hour and 30 minutes by bus & subway .

Internship/Work during School Year: Is it necessary for law students to take up internships or jobs during the school year? If I go to Hofstra, are there opportunities to do so there? Or would I have to go into the city for opportunities? I am worried that I'd have to go into Manhattan in between classes while I'm in Hofstra, it'd probably be difficult what with traffic/expensive parking in Manhattan/inconvenient commute by LIRR. Can anyone share their internship experience during law school?

Neighborhood: Is Hempstead, located in Long Island, a bad neighborhood? Would it be safe to walk around, for example, from campus to the LIRR (Long Island Rail Road) Station or park a car off-campus? How is the neighborhood around NYLS?

Generally, which school would be a better choice? Hofstra is ranked at #100 right now, with NYLS ranked in Tier 3, so I would assume Hofstra to have a better reputation, but does anyone know if this is reliable? Would NYLS possibly be moved up in their ranking, and possibly even surpass Hofstra?

Please share any comments and suggestions you have, thank you so much!!!
Although I know that there are other better schools in New York, please share comments about these two, as they are the ones I am deciding between right now.

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nealric
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby nealric » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:55 pm

I think both schools are a huge ripoff. CUNY is a way better option in the area unless someone else is picking up the tuition tab or you are independently wealthy.

But, if you insist on one of those two, I would choose Hofstra due to the lesser commute. I couldn't imagine spending 1.5 hour each way commuting to and from law school. That would destroy any semblance of quality of life. Few full time law students work much 1L year, so don't count on needing to head to Manhattan.

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SteelReserve
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby SteelReserve » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:11 pm

Neither will give you decent job opportunities. You will likely be unemployed or severely underemployed at graduation with little capability of repaying loans. They will, however, qualify you to sit for the bar and become a lawyer.

In sum, if your goal is to become a lawyer and sit for the bar the schools will suffice. If your goal is to get a job or live a middle-class lifestyle, then neither school is useful.
Last edited by SteelReserve on Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rayiner
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby rayiner » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:13 pm

Both, at the same time.

corporatelaw87
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby corporatelaw87 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:37 pm

If you want an honest opinion. Hofstra.

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im_blue
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby im_blue » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:45 pm

Hofstra

hanabana
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby hanabana » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:37 am

Thanks for your suggestions guys!!!

I am pretty sure now, between the two, I will choose Hofstra. Unless if NYLS gives me a full ride or something... Though hopefully I hear something from other schools, especially my reach schools, though chances are slim...

erniesto
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby erniesto » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:40 am

hanabana wrote:Thanks for your suggestions guys!!!

I am pretty sure now, between the two, I will choose Hofstra. Unless if NYLS gives me a full ride or something... Though hopefully I hear something from other schools, especially my reach schools, though chances are slim...


NYLS doesn't give full scholarships. And the scholarships they do give have bullshit strings attached to them.

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chicoalto0649
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby chicoalto0649 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:42 am

Image

Like seriously?

blsingindisguise
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby blsingindisguise » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:32 am

Yup, neither are very good choices for likelihood of a job. I wouldn't go unless you really really want to be a lawyer or get huge scholarships, preferably both.

hanabana
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby hanabana » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:38 pm

New Dilemma Regarding Scholarship:

Hofstra offered me $15,000. Renewable only if I remain in the top 40% of the class.

NYLS offered me $20,000. Renewable if I maintain a 3.35 gpa. If I do not, they offer partial scholarship, requirements as follows:
3.25-3.34: $15,000
3.15-3.24: $10,000
3.10-3.14: $5,000
Below 3.10, there will be no scholarship.

Based on these two offers, which requirement is more strict? Is it generally harder to remain in top 40% or keep a 3.35 gpa?

I was leaning towards Hofstra before since the commute time is shorter, but now that NYLS offered me more money, I have more to think about. Is Hofstra a better school than NYLS? Is Hofstra better in a sense that I should not worry about the $5,000 more that I can get from NYLS?

Any comments or thoughts are welcome, thank you.

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SteelReserve
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby SteelReserve » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:24 pm

Is Hofstra a better school than NYLS? Is Hofstra better in a sense that I should not worry about the $5,000 more that I can get from NYLS?


They are both miserable, festering toilets. And this is coming from someone who really hates the term TTT. But you need to understand that these two schools are at the absolute bottom of the NYC market. I can't fathom why you want to go to one of these schools without a full ride.

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observationalist
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby observationalist » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:33 pm

hanabana wrote:New Dilemma Regarding Scholarship:

Hofstra offered me $15,000. Renewable only if I remain in the top 40% of the class.

NYLS offered me $20,000. Renewable if I maintain a 3.35 gpa. If I do not, they offer partial scholarship, requirements as follows:
3.25-3.34: $15,000
3.15-3.24: $10,000
3.10-3.14: $5,000
Below 3.10, there will be no scholarship.

Based on these two offers, which requirement is more strict? Is it generally harder to remain in top 40% or keep a 3.35 gpa?

I was leaning towards Hofstra before since the commute time is shorter, but now that NYLS offered me more money, I have more to think about. Is Hofstra a better school than NYLS? Is Hofstra better in a sense that I should not worry about the $5,000 more that I can get from NYLS?

Any comments or thoughts are welcome, thank you.


Per NYLS's website, it looks like a 3.10 puts you around the top 40%: --LinkRemoved--

What does this mean? It means that despite the higher offer on the top end, NYLS has designed their scholarship contingency offer only appears to be more generous than Hofstra's. I don't know where a 3.25 would put you in their class, but seeing as the curve is set at around a 2.8 median, you would probably need to be at least in the top 25%. Someone who attends NYLS could answer you with greater certainty.

Then again, Hofstra may do what Brooklyn reportedly does which is equally disingenuous: put all scholarship recipients in the same section, which keeps total scholarship payments down by ensuring that a full 60% of recipients will lose their scholarships after the first year. This means you would be competing against all the above-median students who, like you, will incorrectly assume they are relatively bright enough to land in the top 40%.

Best advice: if you really want to practice law and don't mind taking on debt and potentially hanging your own shingle after you pass the bar, then just prepare for the very likely possibility that these scholarships will only exist for the first year. Calculate your total debt burden as if you are financing two years at full tuition plus the discounted first-year, and if that's manageable given your average starting salary (maybe 40-60K from these schools, and not necessarily a legal job), then do some more research and figure out which of these offers is actually the better one. I could be wrong about how Hofstra places their scholarship recipients, in which case it looks like that one is the better offer.

Just recognize that law schools aren't evil: their admissions teams are in the uncomfortable position of having to represent their placement ability and scholarships in the most favorable light permitted them by the ABA while still trying to maintain a reputation for operating ethically. The currently permissible level of transparency arguably bars even the most high-minded admissions teams from operating ethically. Fortunately for you, current law students don't have to worry about how they represent their school and can probably provide you with some more candid advice. G'luck.

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Ayeshabelle
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby Ayeshabelle » Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:55 pm

Both schools kinda blow. I say opt for the shorter commute, because a long commute is a great way to make yourself miserable and hateful of life. Blowing $$$ on TTT tuition and the general strain of being a law student will make your life sucky enough. Have you ever consistently commuted for that long before?

hanabana
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby hanabana » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:20 pm

I have actually commuted that long consistently before, for 4 years during my undergrad years. But I had assumed that law school would be a completely different story, so commuting would be more painful. But honestly, with traffic, getting to Hofstra could be only a bit faster than NYLS...

If commuting time is not even an issue, would you guys still suggest Hofstra out of these two schools?

I visited NYLS today, and the new building they have is very nice. I enjoyed my visit to NYLS. While I still kind of prefer Hofstra, I am afraid that NYLS will get into the top 100 in the new ranking, and Hofstra might drop out of it... Both schools seem pretty equal, so I have no idea what is going to happen to the ranking... It would really be horrible if I put in the deposit for one, and then the other turned out to be the better choice... So I have a lot of thinking to do in the next couple of days... Why did the us news ranking have to come out on 4/15? If only it's a couple of days earlier...

osi
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby osi » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:35 pm

hanabana wrote:I have actually commuted that long consistently before, for 4 years during my undergrad years. But I had assumed that law school would be a completely different story, so commuting would be more painful. But honestly, with traffic, getting to Hofstra could be only a bit faster than NYLS...

If commuting time is not even an issue, would you guys still suggest Hofstra out of these two schools?

I visited NYLS today, and the new building they have is very nice. I enjoyed my visit to NYLS. While I still kind of prefer Hofstra, I am afraid that NYLS will get into the top 100 in the new ranking, and Hofstra might drop out of it... Both schools seem pretty equal, so I have no idea what is going to happen to the ranking... It would really be horrible if I put in the deposit for one, and then the other turned out to be the better choice... So I have a lot of thinking to do in the next couple of days... Why did the us news ranking have to come out on 4/15? If only it's a couple of days earlier...


It really doesn't matter if NYLS makes it into the top 100. It doesn't change anything. You're making a mistake. The NYLS scholarship is going to be very difficult to retain and the Hofstra scholarship is not easy either. I would go somewhere cheap at this point or no where at all. Just honestly trying to help.

hanabana
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby hanabana » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:33 pm

I appreciate everyone's comments and help, but I really don't think I will end up not choosing a law school at all. Retaking the LSAT is not really something I will consider, since I can't guarantee for sure that I will get a better score, and a lower one will definitely put me in an even worse situation. I am waitlisted at some schools such as Brooklyn & St. John's, if I do get in one of those, I will definitely attend. But as of now, just as it turned out, my choice is between Hofstra and New York Law School. So just in case these eventually are truly my only choices, I just wanted to know which would be a better choice. And since the first deposit is due soon, it's natural for me to start weighing my options and wonder if NYLS's ranking will surpass that of Hofstra.

BetterCallSaul
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby BetterCallSaul » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:03 pm

How much debt are you going to go into for law school? What will your payments be? There's absolutely nothing wrong with NYLS or Hofstra so long you'll be able to survive and pay your loans while making 40k/year for the first few years.

I don't think St. John's or Brooklyn would get you a better job--they definitely aren't worth paying more. You need internships + networking + bar passage to get a job--that's all that matters in your situation.

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SteelReserve
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby SteelReserve » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:59 am

OP, I really don't think you get it at all. It doesn't matter if NYLS or Hofstra is a 'top 100', it makes no difference in terms of their reps in the legal community. There is not a single partner in a law firm (or hiring attorney in govt) sitting in his office salivating over the next USNEWS ranking, anxious to know whether he should pay 40k to a heavily-indebted NYLS grad or Hofstra grad.
What I mean to say is that you don't seem to get that the difference between Hofstra or NYLS is like picking to have lung cancer in either your left lung or your right lung. It's going to be harsh either way and you are paying way too much. The fact that you think paying full price at St John's or Brooklyn shows you just haven't done a shred of research or talked to actual recent grads from those schools, or current 2Ls or 3Ls.

I respect that it's your life, that you've chosen your fate, (albeit based on little information), so just pick whichever of the two you'd be more comfortable attending based on location.

keg411
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby keg411 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:03 am

A casual friend of mine is a 1L at NYLS (I dunno why she went there) and top 10-15% (LR and their 2L "honors" cutoff) is a 3.63.

JOThompson
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby JOThompson » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:04 am

Hofstra is the better school, but not by much IMO. If possible, you should retake the LSAT and/or gain some work experience. Then reapply, you'll get into a better school which will mean a far more rewarding legal career than either Hofstra or NYLS can provide.

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ryguy
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby ryguy » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:13 am

Please don't go to either. Please take the LSAT again!

270910
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby 270910 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:22 am

observationalist wrote:Then again, Hofstra may do what Brooklyn reportedly does which is equally disingenuous: put all scholarship recipients in the same section, which keeps total scholarship payments down by ensuring that a full 60% of recipients will lose their scholarships after the first year.


You're a fabulous poster observationaist, but the above is flat out false. Schools should not be attaching GPA requirements to ANY scholarships, but 'section stacking' is a pernicious myth that is unfairly tossed around on this website. It's the stereotypical urban legend derived from rumor, innuendo, grape vines, and a game of telephone.

What happens is school just give nearly enough scholarships with requirements to fill that entire segment, i.e. 25% of the class may be on a 33% GPA or better cutoff, and pretty soon numerous people report that they are in the 'stacked' section as though it were fact.

The practice as it exists is bad enough, there's no reason to perpetuate the myth of section stacking.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:28 am

ryguy wrote:Please don't go to either. Please take the LSAT again!

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observationalist
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Re: Hofstra Law or New York Law School?

Postby observationalist » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:43 pm

disco_barred wrote:
observationalist wrote:Then again, Hofstra may do what Brooklyn reportedly does which is equally disingenuous: put all scholarship recipients in the same section, which keeps total scholarship payments down by ensuring that a full 60% of recipients will lose their scholarships after the first year.


You're a fabulous poster observationaist, but the above is flat out false. Schools should not be attaching GPA requirements to ANY scholarships, but 'section stacking' is a pernicious myth that is unfairly tossed around on this website. It's the stereotypical urban legend derived from rumor, innuendo, grape vines, and a game of telephone.

What happens is school just give nearly enough scholarships with requirements to fill that entire segment, i.e. 25% of the class may be on a 33% GPA or better cutoff, and pretty soon numerous people report that they are in the 'stacked' section as though it were fact.

The practice as it exists is bad enough, there's no reason to perpetuate the myth of section stacking.


My source was actually a student who chose to attend Brooklyn on a scholarship, found himself in a section stacked with scholly recipients, and then lost his scholarship after 1L year when he couldn't hit the gpa requirement. I admit he didn't provide any proof that his section was heavy in scholarship recipients, so that could have been a faulty conclusion on his part.

Regardless, himself and many of his friends all went to Brooklyn on scholarships expecting that they would do well enough to keep them, and then realized too late that contingent scholarships on a curved grading system are a lot more risky than they had assumed. The school may no longer place stronger applicants in the same section (if they ever did... my friend could certainly be wrong), but in my opinion they do not adequately inform scholarship recipients of how likely it is they will actually retain their scholarship after the first year. If the school has changed their notification methods I'd love to take a look at the information they provide these days.

hanabana, were you able to figure out for certain which offer is the better one? It does seem to me like Hofstra's is less risky.




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