Best shot at ADA position

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ADA

USD- 90k
12
38%
Loyola LA- 90k
2
6%
Loyola Chi- 55k
12
38%
Depaul- 50k
2
6%
Villanova- 65k
2
6%
American- 105k
2
6%
 
Total votes: 32

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anthonyc350
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Best shot at ADA position

Postby anthonyc350 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:16 pm

Pretty much decided on schools but wondering which of these schools would give me the best shot at an ADA position in their respective cities and if the cost is worth it (total cost assuming I keep scholarships + living expenses)

USD- 90k
Loyola LA- 90k
Loyola Chi- 55k
Depaul- 50k
Villanova- 65k
American- 105k

Out of these schools, Loyola LA, USD and American are the only schools with criminal clinics. I also have contacts in the LA, SD and Chi offices. In terms of cities Chicago is my favorite city, San Diego probably my least (although DC COL is out of control, plus american is too expensive). Did an internship in LA office and loved it.

Thank you for all your help, and I am completely aware that none of these schools at these prices are ideal ITE.

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patrickd139
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:26 pm

Figure out for sure where you want to live. None of this "favorite city stuff." Marseilles is my favorite city. It's also the last place on earth I could see myself practicing law.

Seriously, though. If you want to work in Chicago, go to DePaul or Loyola Chi. SD, then go to SD. LA, then Loyola LA. DC ADA spots are, by reputation, very tough to land because they're stepping stones to all sorts of jobs. Plus, like you said, COL is pretty high.

Best of luck!

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anthonyc350
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby anthonyc350 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:32 pm

I realize that, but say since LA and SD are the same price, but USD places much better in SD than Loyola in LA, then SD would be a better choice. (I don't know this, this is just an example). Or if one schools cost make it a better decision than another. I would visit but I'm currently working abroad.

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im_blue
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby im_blue » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:39 pm

Your choice should be down to USD and the Loyolas. DePaul is worse than Loyola Chi with similar money, Villanova isn't where you want to practice, and American is relatively weaker than the other school in its own region. Since Chicago is your favorite city, I'd go with Loyola Chi (those figures are total COA, not scholarships, right?)

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anthonyc350
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby anthonyc350 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:49 pm

total coa assuming 15-20k a year. didnt take into account books or extra fees though.

edit: each school 1 vote :shock:

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UF Gators
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby UF Gators » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:55 pm

I would go with Loyola Chicago.

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Spaceman Spiff
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby Spaceman Spiff » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:00 pm

im_blue wrote:Your choice should be down to USD and the Loyolas. DePaul is worse than Loyola Chi with similar money, Villanova isn't where you want to practice, and American is relatively weaker than the other school in its own region. Since Chicago is your favorite city, I'd go with Loyola Chi (those figures are total COA, not scholarships, right?)


+1. Although DePaul did (I assume) give you a free T-shirt. So......

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A'nold
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby A'nold » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:02 am

Loyola Chicago no contest.

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anthonyc350
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby anthonyc350 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:25 am

no contest? pretty strong, thanks for the advice. wish I could visit and get a feel for each school...

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Mattalones
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby Mattalones » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:28 am

patrickd139 wrote:Figure out for sure where you want to live. None of this "favorite city stuff." Marseilles is my favorite city. It's also the last place on earth I could see myself practicing law.

Seriously, though. If you want to work in Chicago, go to DePaul or Loyola Chi. SD, then go to SD. LA, then Loyola LA. DC ADA spots are, by reputation, very tough to land because they're stepping stones to all sorts of jobs. Plus, like you said, COL is pretty high.

Best of luck!

... Danny Crane 8)

BetterCallSaul
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby BetterCallSaul » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:45 am

A'nold wrote:Loyola Chicago no contest.


+1

And I'll explain why.

California budget crisis means that ADAs are being hired only sporadically--and there's no end in sight to that.
American is a big no because there are no ADAs. I mean, you could go to Baltimore, but...
Cook County hires lots of ASAs every year and Loyola places better than better than DePaul.

There's your answer.

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voice of reason
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby voice of reason » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:59 am

BetterCallSaul wrote:American is a big no because there are no ADAs. I mean, you could go to Baltimore, but...


Can you elaborate? No ADAs in DC, Arlington, Fairfax County, Montgomery County, or Howard County? Those areas that are within 25 minutes of AU have a population of more than 3 million people. I'm puzzled that there'd be no ADAs there.

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anthonyc350
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby anthonyc350 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:25 am

BetterCallSaul wrote:
A'nold wrote:Loyola Chicago no contest.


+1

And I'll explain why.

California budget crisis means that ADAs are being hired only sporadically--and there's no end in sight to that.
American is a big no because there are no ADAs. I mean, you could go to Baltimore, but...
Cook County hires lots of ASAs every year and Loyola places better than better than DePaul.

There's your answer.

Very helpful thank you, I know the cook county ASA hires the 2nd most lawyers per year, or something close. What about Philadelphia? I was thinking there might be more opportunity because there are so many different counties that make up philly and the area surrounding it. Not work the extra $$? I also can go home in Chicago and am receiving more aid from parents which pretty much covers tuition.

BetterCallSaul
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby BetterCallSaul » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:56 am

voice of reason wrote:
BetterCallSaul wrote:American is a big no because there are no ADAs. I mean, you could go to Baltimore, but...


Can you elaborate? No ADAs in DC, Arlington, Fairfax County, Montgomery County, or Howard County? Those areas that are within 25 minutes of AU have a population of more than 3 million people. I'm puzzled that there'd be no ADAs there.


Ok, no ADAs in DC--only AUSAs who are not straight out of law school. I don't know the details about the other counties, which leads me to think they don't hire straight out of law school--most counties in the US won't take applicants unless they've passed the bar and they don't have training programs for new lawyers.

OP--Philly is an option. I know they hire new lawyers, but I don't know much about Villanova.
The nice thing about Loyola is that you're right in the city--5 minutes to the State Attorney's. You already have ties there, I think it's your best shot unless you really prefer Philly to Chicago.

Edited to Add: lots of counties may seem a virtue but it doesn't really help you when you're looking for a job right out of school. You need a big office that hires large a class straight out of law school and is able to train you.

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anthonyc350
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby anthonyc350 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:05 am

is Iowa at sticker worth considering if only interested in Chicago?

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patrickd139
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:36 pm

BetterCallSaul wrote:
voice of reason wrote:
BetterCallSaul wrote:American is a big no because there are no ADAs. I mean, you could go to Baltimore, but...


Can you elaborate? No ADAs in DC, Arlington, Fairfax County, Montgomery County, or Howard County? Those areas that are within 25 minutes of AU have a population of more than 3 million people. I'm puzzled that there'd be no ADAs there.


Ok, no ADAs in DC--only AUSAs who are not straight out of law school. I don't know the details about the other counties, which leads me to think they don't hire straight out of law school--most counties in the US won't take applicants unless they've passed the bar and they don't have training programs for new lawyers.

OP--Philly is an option. I know they hire new lawyers, but I don't know much about Villanova.
The nice thing about Loyola is that you're right in the city--5 minutes to the State Attorney's. You already have ties there, I think it's your best shot unless you really prefer Philly to Chicago.

Edited to Add: lots of counties may seem a virtue but it doesn't really help you when you're looking for a job right out of school. You need a big office that hires large a class straight out of law school and is able to train you.

I disagree with the majority of this post. The bolded is particularly troubling, as I don't know the details about most law firms, but I know that they are, for a fact, still hiring straight out of law school.

Though the sentence after the bolded is true to a certain extent, it's not worth basing your decision. Most offices do not hire straight out because they don't have to, not because they won't. Yes, you have to pass the bar, but that's life as a prosecutor. Plus, in these major cities, there are plenty of offices who hire straight out. The counties mentioned above by another poster around D.C. are prime examples of places to begin your search, OP.

Finally, anyone who thinks that DA's offices have time to "train" their ADAs is deluding themselves. You'll be lucky to find a mentor to help you wade through your waist-high stack of misdemeanors you'll be prosecuting for the first 3 years :wink:

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anthonyc350
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby anthonyc350 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:13 pm

I might be overplaying the fact that I want to be in a certain city, I just want the school that has the best chance of actually placing me in a DA's office, thats the number 1 issues, if all schools are equal then maybe I'll think about cities which I prefer. Also accepted to Pitt FWIW

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patrickd139
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:18 pm

anthonyc350 wrote:I might be overplaying the fact that I want to be in a certain city, I just want the school that has the best chance of actually placing me in a DA's office, thats the number 1 issues, if all schools are equal then maybe I'll think about cities which I prefer. Also accepted to Pitt FWIW

1) Call each school's CSO and ask how many students they place as ADAs
2) Pick the school that places the highest % as ADAs
3) ???
4) Profit.*






*Just kidding, of course. You're not going to profit as an ADA. :wink:

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Borhas
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby Borhas » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:20 pm

anthonyc350 wrote:I might be overplaying the fact that I want to be in a certain city, I just want the school that has the best chance of actually placing me in a DA's office, thats the number 1 issues, if all schools are equal then maybe I'll think about cities which I prefer. Also accepted to Pitt FWIW


also consider LRAP

government gigs usually qualify, if they don't I would consider that a major draw back for that school

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anthonyc350
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby anthonyc350 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:24 pm

most of the entry DA position salaries, although extremely low, seem to be above the threshold for public interest LRAP programs, so I would assume that would make me ineligible? I've been lucky to make some money in between ug and law school so I won't have too much debt if I accept a decent sized scholarship, plus I am getting some aid from the 'rents.

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Borhas
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby Borhas » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:40 pm

anthonyc350 wrote:most of the entry DA position salaries, although extremely low, seem to be above the threshold for public interest LRAP programs, so I would assume that would make me ineligible? I've been lucky to make some money in between ug and law school so I won't have too much debt if I accept a decent sized scholarship, plus I am getting some aid from the 'rents.


I have seen LRAPs cover up to 70k (UC Hastings) ADAs seem to start at 35-55k

BetterCallSaul
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Re: Best shot at ADA position

Postby BetterCallSaul » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:24 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
BetterCallSaul wrote:
voice of reason wrote:
BetterCallSaul wrote:American is a big no because there are no ADAs. I mean, you could go to Baltimore, but...


Can you elaborate? No ADAs in DC, Arlington, Fairfax County, Montgomery County, or Howard County? Those areas that are within 25 minutes of AU have a population of more than 3 million people. I'm puzzled that there'd be no ADAs there.


Ok, no ADAs in DC--only AUSAs who are not straight out of law school. I don't know the details about the other counties, which leads me to think they don't hire straight out of law school--most counties in the US won't take applicants unless they've passed the bar and they don't have training programs for new lawyers.

OP--Philly is an option. I know they hire new lawyers, but I don't know much about Villanova.
The nice thing about Loyola is that you're right in the city--5 minutes to the State Attorney's. You already have ties there, I think it's your best shot unless you really prefer Philly to Chicago.

Edited to Add: lots of counties may seem a virtue but it doesn't really help you when you're looking for a job right out of school. You need a big office that hires large a class straight out of law school and is able to train you.

I disagree with the majority of this post. The bolded is particularly troubling, as I don't know the details about most law firms, but I know that they are, for a fact, still hiring straight out of law school.

Though the sentence after the bolded is true to a certain extent, it's not worth basing your decision. Most offices do not hire straight out because they don't have to, not because they won't. Yes, you have to pass the bar, but that's life as a prosecutor. Plus, in these major cities, there are plenty of offices who hire straight out. The counties mentioned above by another poster around D.C. are prime examples of places to begin your search, OP.

Finally, anyone who thinks that DA's offices have time to "train" their ADAs is deluding themselves. You'll be lucky to find a mentor to help you wade through your waist-high stack of misdemeanors you'll be prosecuting for the first 3 years :wink:


If a legal job won't even accept your application until after you have passed the bar, they are asking you to do something else before you come to them. That's the case at nearly every DA's office in this country. Law school career services talks loudly about the few offices that will take you as a law clerk first (the NYC boroughs, Chicago, Philly, Las Vegas, Suffolk County, Miami, etc.) These are the massive DA's offices that have "training programs" and hire a "class" of new ADAs that includes 10 to 60 of *usually* straight out of school JDs. I'm not saying that training is extensive (at some places it's a 3 days of mock trial and they set you loose), but if you're aiming for an ADA job straight out of school it makes sense to go to an office that is set up to absorb newly minted lawyers.

For expanded options, OP can certainly clerk for a year or two in state or federal court and then (assuming bar passage) take a shot at a wider variety of DA's offices. That may be the way to go.




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