Cornell w/120K versus Columbia at sticker Forum

[rayiner]

Columbia both during the boom and now is placing roughly double the percentage of the class into biglaw.

Not even close.

[im_blue]

2009 NLJ250:

- Columbia: 54.4%
- Cornell: 41.5%

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf


2008 Federal Clerkships:

- Columbia: 8.6% (see footnote)
- Cornell: 10.9%

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =1&t=75513


2000-2008 Supreme Court Clearkships:

- Columbia: 5% (5th highest)
- Cornell: <1% (not ranked)

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2000 ... erks.shtml


Leiter Elite Firms Rankings:

- Columbia: 1st
- Cornell: 7th (tied)

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

Also, here are some Vault placement statistics for CLS vs Cornell:
Vault 5 - 16.4% vs 6.7% (145% better - nearly 2.5x as many)
Vault 10 - 37.8% vs 19.7% (92% better)
Vault 25 - 63.2% vs 34.2% (85% better)
Vault 50 - 73.5% vs 39.4% (87% better)
Vault 100 - 80.2% vs 43.0% (87% better)

Source: http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/

The placement difference should be magnified even greater ITE, since Cornell depends so heavily on NYC.

[Jules Winnfield]

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[TTTennis]

Cornell FTW. It seems pretty retarded to go that far into debt just to increase your odds of landing a certain job by a pretty small percentage, because if you don't get said job anyway, you're boned.

[dakatz]

I had the chance to visit Cornell today and, OP, I really loved it. I have a Chicago offer at sticker, which is relatively similar to your Columbia offer, and if Cornell offered me 120K, I would be VERY tempted by it. Both schools are so different though. Be sure to visit both and determine which one has the right feel for you. Yes, Columbia places better and has a bigger name, but Cornell is still doing well. I spoke to a ton of students today, even those from the dreaded Class of 2011, and most said they have jobs lined up and that it wasn't too huge an impediment. You're in a wonderful position and you cannot make a wrong choice. Personally, I don't think the extra 120K (and the interest that would accrue on that) is worth the difference between Columbia and Cornell.

[Jay-Electronica]

*Looks at Poll*

[Jules Winnfield]

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[agentdedalus]

you're an idiot for trying to put words in my mouth and for ignoring the other options I mentioned before academia.

please stop quoting and talking to me. thanks.

whether or not your points are valid, this thread would be far more entertaining if you opened each retort with "Step aside, Butch..."

[im_blue]

But I would take Cornell for FREE and OP wouldn't necessarily have to go for BIGLAW and be pressured to repay loans should he attend. I'll get back when I find stats but I think Cornell holds it own quite well in NY, even with CLS and NYU present.

What are you going to do besides biglaw? CLS will give you much better opportunities in government, etc, too. You can do small law, but what's the point? Work the same number of hours as biglaw and get paid a lot less for it.

Umm, MIDLAW, government, PI and academia. BIGLAW is not the end-all, be-all.

And while CLS is undoubtedly a better school, Cornell still gets you quite ahead in the legal field. This is no less the same for New York.

you're an idiot for trying to put words in my mouth and for ignoring the other options I mentioned before academia.

please stop quoting and talking to me. thanks.

See bolded. Thanks.

[Jules Winnfield]

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[Jules Winnfield]

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[Jules Winnfield]

And for all of the people directing malicious comments at me in this thread, it deserves to be mentioned that you guys are definitely in the minority, according to the poll.

If anything, you guys are the ones who are being dumb in advising OP to take on 6-figure debt in lieu of attending a T14 for free.

[TTTennis]

haha, great argument going on in here

[agentdedalus]

See bolded. Thanks, dumbass.

See now, it's not that I disagree with or wish harm to Ms./Mr. Blue, I am... but this would have been an ideal time to employ the oft referenced:

"Hear me talkin' hillbilly boy? I ain't through with you by a damn sight. I'm gonna get Medieval on your ass."

[gossipgirl]

What supports the Cornell people in this thread is that OP does NOT want to do transactional law and a lot of BigLaw does end up being transactional.

If OP goes to Columbia, he is FORCED to do transactional law if things don't work out right because of his debt.

If OP goes to Chicago, he can take a government job or something more interesting and less paying because he has no debt whatsoever.

For many people, like myself who are interested in the V5, Columbia would be the right choice. For OP, no debt from Cornell gives him more options.

[Snoopy1216]

And for all of the people directing malicious comments at me in this thread, it deserves to be mentioned that you guys are definitely in the minority, according to the poll.

If anything, you guys are the ones who are being dumb in advising OP to take on 6-figure debt in lieu of attending a T14 for free.

+1 We aren't talking Yale people, we are talking Columbia. Cornell is not that far behind it and it is still Ivy league. Everyone on TLS acts like Cornell=career suicide. Gimme a break. Cornell is fine; and, with a $120,000 bow it shines a lot brighter.

[chevrondeference]

I was faced with the exact same decision when I was applying to law schools. I chose Columbia, and am now a 3L. Given your situation, I would probably recommend making the same decision. The difference between Columbia and Cornell in terms of the sort of opportunities you described (clerkships, DOJ) is significant. For some reason, Cornell's federal clerkship placement seems weaker than its peers. (Duke and Northwestern both have excellent clerkship programs.) Cornell's numbers may be fine, but in terms of which clerkships they land, they seem to be one of the least successful top schools.

One of the key factors for me was that, when I compared total costs, there isn't as big a difference as it initially seems. The scholarship I got covered only tuition (perhaps yours also covers living expenses?). If you have to pay for room and board, you will still leave with probably 50k or more in debt. 200k for Columbia is a lot, but either you will make an enormous firm salary, or the LRAP (which is really excellent) will end up paying most of it.

Anyway, that's just my experience. There are certainly benefits to minimizing debt. But as someone who has recently seen clerkship hiring and other employment trends, there is a significant difference between the two schools. It's not just prestige whoring.

[orphanarium]

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[Z3RO]

I voted for Columbia, but I want you to go with Cornell so that I can get into Columbia. I suspect that is Jules' agenda as well.

I already got into Columbia, dumbass.

You think you might be taking this a little too seriously, fuckass? I'm a dumbass, because I don't read your entire post history before I make a joke about how hardcore you're anti-Columbia trolling?

Anyway, nobody respects somebody who thinks Cornell employment prospects = Columbia employment prospects (at least not somebody with a more nuanced understanding of the market than my fucking parents).

Also, please withdraw from Columbia. I'm sure you can leverage that acceptance into a lucrative 120k+ offer from Cornell, which will be waaay better than actually attending Col.

[Jules Winnfield]

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[Z3RO]

They are both in the T14. I really don't see the big difference between going to Cornell vs. Columbia (separated by 9 spots). This reeks of prestige whoring. I'm sorry but it does.

I'm Held, asshole. When I squeak in, then kick your ass, because of the latent skills I exhibited on my 180 LSAT, we'll see who's the cockmonger.

[Jules Winnfield]

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[Z3RO]

They are both in the T14. I really don't see the big difference between going to Cornell vs. Columbia (separated by 9 spots). This reeks of prestige whoring. I'm sorry but it does.

I'm Held, asshole. When I squeak in, then kick your ass, because of the latent skills I exhibited on my 180 LSAT, we'll see who's the cockmonger.

Hahaha at you squeaking in! That's tough talk for somebody who's probably not good enough to get into Columbia, let alone face me on campus.

We'll see next year. Well, we probably won't, because we don't know each other, but (much like you) I sure as fuck hope that median at Columbia has reasoning skills like yours.

[Jules Winnfield]

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[Z3RO]

Regardless, I'm sure I'm gonna be fine should I opt to attend CLS. You need to worry about getting in.

Not until April I dont

Once you get in, and you have to deal with me, you're gonna wonder if I'm the same motherfucker that trolls you on TLS.

*Edit*
PS: I am.