Cornell w/120K versus Columbia at sticker Forum

[Jules Winnfield]

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[lawduder]

prestige whoring is starting to show ITT

[johndh]

I keep seeing arguments talking about Cornell's placement at the medians but is it too unrealistic to assume that with such a large scholarship the OP could potentially finish around the top of the class where employment opportunities are far different? (I hope so, I just received the same scholarship, although without the CLS acceptance, and I am seriously considering accepting it.)

[Dignan]

In all fairness and actuality, you're over-hyping the difference between Columbia and Cornell. The fact that OP wouldn't need to go for BIGLAW/clerkships were he to attend Cornell just proves that it's a better choice than going in 6-figure debt and having to compete for a BIGLAW job.

To be clear, I am not interested in a federal clerkship for reasons of prestige. I am interested because I think being a clerk would be very interesting, and I think that the opportunities the clerkship would open up, particularly in appellate litigation and in elite PI, could lead to an exciting career that I would enjoy. This isn't all about money and prestige.

OP, there is a clear-cut, correct answer. Some of these TLS posters are just making it really difficult by clouding the options with their own prestige-whoring opinions/thoughts. Remember that most of these people in this thread are 0Ls who, for all their wishful thinking, have no true sense of how hiring/employment prospects are for Columbia v. Cornell.

In defense of the other posters, many of them are providing data and links that show that CLS offers significant advantages over Cornell. You, on the other hand, keep asserting the same things over and over without any data to back up your claims. I appreciate your perspective, and I think there's something to your position, but you have been less than persuasive ITT.

[Dignan]

I keep seeing arguments talking about Cornell's placement at the medians but is it too unrealistic to assume that with such a large scholarship the OP could potentially finish around the top of the class where employment opportunities are far different? (I hope so, I just received the same scholarship, although without the CLS acceptance, and I am seriously considering accepting it.)

The conventional wisdom is that it's a mistake to assume you will finish near the top of your class. There is, the argument runs, a fair amount of randomness and luck in law school grading. And, as you and I both know, we're just a blown logic game away from having numbers that look like the typical Cornell Law student. We're not that special.

[Bronte]

Dignan, it's hard to say if you should take Columbia or Cornell, but one thing is for sure: don't listen to Jules Winnfield.

[im_blue]

OP, there is a clear-cut, correct answer. Some of these TLS posters are just making it really difficult by clouding the options with their own prestige-whoring opinions/thoughts. Remember that most of these people in this thread are 0Ls who, for all their wishful thinking, have no true sense of how hiring/employment prospects are for Columbia v. Cornell.

In defense of the other posters, many of them are providing data and links that show that CLS offers significant advantages over Cornell. You, on the other hand, keep asserting the same things over and over without any data to back up your claims. I appreciate your perspective, and I think there's something to your position, but you have been less than persuasive ITT.

+1. Jules is the most clueless 0L ITT. Consider his evidence: "go to the IVY league law school which is offering a FULL RIDE in stead of paying sticker at another IVY in the same state. They are both in the T14. I really don't see the big difference between going to Cornell vs. Columbia (separated by 9 spots)." I mean, seriously? There may be good reasons to choose Cornell, but he hasn't given any.

[Jules Winnfield]

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[Jules Winnfield]

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[Jay-Electronica]

Cmon people. There really is no need to derail this thread. Bronte, that was really unnecessary of you to come in here just to bash one person. The better action to take would have been to PM OP about what you thought. Now, you have another poster follow you with his opinion and also a reaction from Julles. So, as expected this thread has turned into a pissing contest when it should be about giving advice to OP. There is no need for this sorta thing. So, lets take a chill pill and get back to the thread topic guys. Thanks

[itsfine]

You guys are fucking idiots. I can't believe that most of you people in this thread would advise OP to go into 6-figure debt just so that he can go to Columbia and have a shot at BIGLAW to repay debt, etc when he has a FULL RIDE to Cornell Law, which is still a T14. Cornell is VERY respected in New York and graduating from there is going to open up MANY doors for OP. The fact that you'll be coming out with no debt is a boon on top of it.

And, OP, the fact that this is really an issue for you demonstrates your cluelessness and inability to make a decision. It also shows how badly of a prestige whore when, in actuality, nobody in the real world truly thinks less of a Cornell grad than a Columbia graduate. And I seriously doubt employment prospects are THAT much worse than Columbia's. How anybody turns down a full ride from Cornell Law is ridiculous, especially in this economy.

I think the prestige whores in this thread are underestimating the debt burden of attending CLS.

As a CLS admit, I'm telling you that if I were in your shoes, I would attend Cornell in a heartbeat.

thats the one to read

[AngryAvocado]

You guys are fucking idiots. I can't believe that most of you people in this thread would advise OP to go into 6-figure debt just so that he can go to Columbia and have a shot at BIGLAW to repay debt, etc when he has a FULL RIDE to Cornell Law, which is still a T14. Cornell is VERY respected in New York and graduating from there is going to open up MANY doors for OP. The fact that you'll be coming out with no debt is a boon on top of it.

And, OP, the fact that this is really an issue for you demonstrates your cluelessness and inability to make a decision. It also shows how badly of a prestige whore when, in actuality, nobody in the real world truly thinks less of a Cornell grad than a Columbia graduate. And I seriously doubt employment prospects are THAT much worse than Columbia's. How anybody turns down a full ride from Cornell Law is ridiculous, especially in this economy.

I think the prestige whores in this thread are underestimating the debt burden of attending CLS.

As a CLS admit, I'm telling you that if I were in your shoes, I would attend Cornell in a heartbeat.

As much as I want to like you since I'm a huge Pulp Fiction fan, I can't help but think you're a complete idiot. You don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the NBA (as evidenced by the NBA Chatter thread), you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to NYU vs. Chicago hiring prospects outside of NYC (as evidenced by the URM thread), and you clearly don't know what you're talking about if you consider CLS and Cornell graduates equals in the eyes of employers. Until you're willing to actually back up what you say with some hard evidence--like some that demonstrates Cornell and CLS are even relatively equal in ANY category--please stop repeating the same opinion and calling everyone else idiots for disagreeing with you.

[Jules Winnfield]

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[Jules Winnfield]

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[rayiner]

Columbia.

[Dignan]

Thank you for adding something positive to the OP's situation...NOT!

Indeed, AngryAvocado. You should be ashamed. As Jules has demonstrated, the way to contribute something positive to my situation is to call me "clueless," "[unable] to make a decision," and a "prestige whore." Apparently, I deserve this because, a mere two days after receiving the offer from Cornell, I am interested in considering all sides of the decision.

[agentdedalus]

Columbia.

rayiner sums this up nicely and hits all the major point(s). hth.

[gossipgirl]

You guys are fucking idiots. I can't believe that most of you people in this thread would advise OP to go into 6-figure debt just so that he can go to Columbia and have a shot at BIGLAW to repay debt, etc when he has a FULL RIDE to Cornell Law, which is still a T14. Cornell is VERY respected in New York and graduating from there is going to open up MANY doors for OP. The fact that you'll be coming out with no debt is a boon on top of it.

And, OP, the fact that this is really an issue for you demonstrates your cluelessness and inability to make a decision. It also shows how badly of a prestige whore when, in actuality, nobody in the real world truly thinks less of a Cornell grad than a Columbia graduate. And I seriously doubt employment prospects are THAT much worse than Columbia's. How anybody turns down a full ride from Cornell Law is ridiculous, especially in this economy.

I think the prestige whores in this thread are underestimating the debt burden of attending CLS.

As a CLS admit, I'm telling you that if I were in your shoes, I would attend Cornell in a heartbeat.

As much as I want to like you since I'm a huge Pulp Fiction fan, I can't help but think you're a complete idiot. You don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the NBA (as evidenced by the NBA Chatter thread), you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to NYU vs. Chicago hiring prospects outside of NYC (as evidenced by the URM thread), and you clearly don't know what you're talking about if you consider CLS and Cornell graduates equals in the eyes of employers. Until you're willing to actually back up what you say with some hard evidence--like some that demonstrates Cornell and CLS are even relatively equal in ANY category--please stop repeating the same opinion and calling everyone else idiots for disagreeing with you.

And RC FAIL. I never said Cornell was a better choice (or even relatively equal). However, I think that the trade-off in attending Cornell (for FREE) and having slightly lower employment prospects is worth not attending CLS and, subsequently, going 6-figure debt.

Please, leave me alone.

I'm curious if you know of any evidence that would prove that the employment prospects only differ slightly?

I'm not trying to instigate, just genuinely curious as a CLS admit.

[Jules Winnfield]

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[rayiner]

But I would take Cornell for FREE and OP wouldn't necessarily have to go for BIGLAW and be pressured to repay loans should he attend. I'll get back when I find stats but I think Cornell holds it own quite well in NY, even with CLS and NYU present.

What are you going to do besides biglaw? CLS will give you much better opportunities in government, etc, too. You can do small law, but what's the point? Work the same number of hours as biglaw and get paid a lot less for it.

[EijiMiyake]

I'm curious if you know of any evidence that would prove that the employment prospects only differ slightly?

I'm not trying to instigate, just genuinely curious as a CLS admit.

I'm a CLS admit myself...I'm in the process of comparing CLS and Cornell's employment BIGLAW prospects but I'd be using stats from 2008, at the most recent.

But I would take Cornell for FREE and OP wouldn't necessarily have to go for BIGLAW and be pressured to repay loans should he attend. I'll get back when I find stats but I think Cornell holds it own quite well in NY, even with CLS and NYU present.

So, the answer is NO, Jules Winfield does not know of any evidence to support his claims.

[Jules Winnfield]

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[im_blue]

But I would take Cornell for FREE and OP wouldn't necessarily have to go for BIGLAW and be pressured to repay loans should he attend. I'll get back when I find stats but I think Cornell holds it own quite well in NY, even with CLS and NYU present.

What are you going to do besides biglaw? CLS will give you much better opportunities in government, etc, too. You can do small law, but what's the point? Work the same number of hours as biglaw and get paid a lot less for it.

Umm, MIDLAW, government, PI and academia. BIGLAW is not the end-all, be-all.

And while CLS is undoubtedly a better school, Cornell still gets you quite ahead in the legal field. This is no less the same for New York.

If I can't get biglaw from Cornell, my backup plan is academia??? LOL please just stop now before you embarrass yourself further.

[rayiner]

Umm, MIDLAW, government, PI and academia. BIGLAW is not the end-all, be-all.

MIDLAW barely exists. You can get a better government or PI job from CLS and the LRAP/IBR will negate any cost difference. Academia is a huge stretch from Columbia and pretty much not an option from Cornell.

[Bronte]

2009 NLJ250:

- Columbia: 54.4%
- Cornell: 41.5%

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf


2008 Federal Clerkships:

- Columbia: 8.6% (see footnote)
- Cornell: 10.9%

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =1&t=75513


2000-2008 Supreme Court Clerkships:

- Columbia: 5% (5th highest)
- Cornell: <1% (not ranked)

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2000 ... erks.shtml


Leiter Elite Firms Rankings:

- Columbia: 1st
- Cornell: 7th (tied)

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml