Chicago v Penn

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rob1232
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Chicago v Penn

Postby rob1232 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:15 pm

Hey guys, I really need some help with this decision. Im from California, prob going to work there after I graduate. Want to work in Big Law (for now, anyway) doing some sort of litigation. I also don't want to be killing myself for 3 years (in response to Chicago's hardcore/nerd reputation) but I also know not too many ppl are very excited about Penn. Would appreciate anyone's input. Thanks.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:21 pm

There's absolutely no comparison between Chicago and Penn. Chicago is better for everything. The end.

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im_blue
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby im_blue » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:22 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:There's absolutely no comparison between Chicago and Penn. Chicago is better for everything. The end.

This, and Chicago is especially stronger than Penn for Cali biglaw.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:29 pm

im_blue wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:There's absolutely no comparison between Chicago and Penn. Chicago is better for everything. The end.

This, and Chicago is especially stronger than Penn for Cali biglaw.


I didn't even bother reading that far. For California? Christ, there isn't even anything to think about talking about.

Apple Tree
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby Apple Tree » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:41 pm

Chicago. Because it's, well, Chicago.

Flanker1067
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby Flanker1067 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:44 pm

Penn is a great school, but placement seems pretty non existent in Cali. If you are commited to living there, should go UoC

Add: And, Chicago has that super nerd rep, and I think some pretty lame people self select to there, but I am sure there are cool people too and I can't imagine they work much harder then other top law schools.
Last edited by Flanker1067 on Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby Nom Sawyer » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:45 pm

Apple Tree wrote:Chicago. Because it's, well, Chicago.


Chicago sounds like it doesn't necessarily have the best student atmosphere... is that a big enough reason to pick Penn? No... go to Chicago :lol:
Last edited by Nom Sawyer on Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:06 pm

Also: Contrary to popular belief, UChicago students actually have it really easy for the first 2/3 of 1L year. Quarter system... they only have 2 final exams in the Autumn and Winter quarters. Law school easymode, in my opinion. Plus, the first quarter, the two finals they have only cover 9 weeks of material each--super easymode.

I look forward to their tears when they have 4 finals in the spring quarter: just like every other 1L in the country;)

rob1232
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby rob1232 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:20 am

Thanks for the help guys,I'm starting to think the intense atmosphere might not be enough to pass Chicago up. And what if I throw Ucla into the equation, with possibly some scholly money (keep in mind i'll prob end up practicing in LA) Still Chicago?

cflames7
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby cflames7 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:09 am

Where can I find placement stats for these schools?

I haven't seen anything that shows Chicago with a wider reach in terms of job placement and opportunities.

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im_blue
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby im_blue » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:12 am

rob1232 wrote:Thanks for the help guys,I'm starting to think the intense atmosphere might not be enough to pass Chicago up. And what if I throw Ucla into the equation, with possibly some scholly money (keep in mind i'll prob end up practicing in LA) Still Chicago?


I would choose Chicago over a full ride at UCLA even for LA, especially in this crappy economy. This was posted in another thread on TLS today:

From the admitted students chat for Chicago with their Associate Dean for Career Services, Abbie Willard:
"We know that approximately 80% of our 2Ls have accepted positions with frims that interviewed here last fall. We also know that of the 20% who are still seeking, many of them are holding out for public interest, government positions, and fellowships that come in later in the spring."

Also, 72% of the Chicago 2Ls were placed into V50 firms. Rumor elsewhere on TLS is that UCLA placed about 15% of their 2Ls this year.

cflames7
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby cflames7 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:44 am

im_blue wrote:

Also, 72% of the Chicago 2Ls were placed into V50 firms. Rumor elsewhere on TLS is that UCLA placed about 15% of their 2Ls this year.


Where do you find stats like these? How does that V50 number compare with Penn/Columbia/NYU?

vickers711
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby vickers711 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:55 am

BUMP. super helpful thread. Keep the Chicago info coming for another Californian with UCLA and Chicago in the mix

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tintin
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby tintin » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:05 am

+1 would like more discussion on this plz.

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echoi
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby echoi » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:10 am

cflames7 wrote:
im_blue wrote:

Also, 72% of the Chicago 2Ls were placed into V50 firms. Rumor elsewhere on TLS is that UCLA placed about 15% of their 2Ls this year.


Where do you find stats like these? How does that V50 number compare with Penn/Columbia/NYU?


The Abbie Willard quote is from today's chat on the admitted students website.

The 72% V50 figure is from a current 1L.

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dbt
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby dbt » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:14 am

I go to NYU. I could have gone to Chicago. I sometimes find myself wondering whether Chicago would be the better choice (though ultimately I am happy at NYU and think it was a great choice). It was a very tough decision.

Chicago v. Penn is no comparison. Chicago really is underrated by USNews (though maybe slightly overrated on TLS). Still, I don't think this is a question. Chicago is amazing. I think it offers the best opportunities in general outside of YHS. Social life/etc. should come into play, but in the case of Penn I don't see Penn being much better than Chicago (if at all) for location/reputation of student body/etc.

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tintin
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby tintin » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:00 am

dbt wrote:I go to NYU. I could have gone to Chicago. I sometimes find myself wondering whether Chicago would be the better choice (though ultimately I am happy at NYU and think it was a great choice). It was a very tough decision.

Chicago v. Penn is no comparison. Chicago really is underrated by USNews (though maybe slightly overrated on TLS). Still, I don't think this is a question. Chicago is amazing. I think it offers the best opportunities in general outside of YHS. Social life/etc. should come into play, but in the case of Penn I don't see Penn being much better than Chicago (if at all) for location/reputation of student body/etc.


Can you elaborate on why you chose NYU over Chicago? I am choosing between all three of these schools, but since I will be paying sticker I think it will come down to NYU v Chicago...

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Rand M.
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby Rand M. » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:13 am

tintin wrote:
dbt wrote:I go to NYU. I could have gone to Chicago. I sometimes find myself wondering whether Chicago would be the better choice (though ultimately I am happy at NYU and think it was a great choice). It was a very tough decision.

Chicago v. Penn is no comparison. Chicago really is underrated by USNews (though maybe slightly overrated on TLS). Still, I don't think this is a question. Chicago is amazing. I think it offers the best opportunities in general outside of YHS. Social life/etc. should come into play, but in the case of Penn I don't see Penn being much better than Chicago (if at all) for location/reputation of student body/etc.


Can you elaborate on why you chose NYU over Chicago? I am choosing between all three of these schools, but since I will be paying sticker I think it will come down to NYU v Chicago...


+1 I am curious about this too. I got 25k from NYU, but that only really serves to bring the costs to about equal to Chicago for me.

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dbt
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby dbt » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:59 am

tintin wrote:
dbt wrote:I go to NYU. I could have gone to Chicago. I sometimes find myself wondering whether Chicago would be the better choice (though ultimately I am happy at NYU and think it was a great choice). It was a very tough decision.

Chicago v. Penn is no comparison. Chicago really is underrated by USNews (though maybe slightly overrated on TLS). Still, I don't think this is a question. Chicago is amazing. I think it offers the best opportunities in general outside of YHS. Social life/etc. should come into play, but in the case of Penn I don't see Penn being much better than Chicago (if at all) for location/reputation of student body/etc.


Can you elaborate on why you chose NYU over Chicago? I am choosing between all three of these schools, but since I will be paying sticker I think it will come down to NYU v Chicago...


Before getting here, my reasons for choosing NYU over Chicago/Columbia were

location: NYU's location is not overhyped; this is honestly one of the best places I could imagine living in,
perceived student body: NYU is known for being more liberal and laid back, and I think both of those characterizations are true; for instance, just looking at the Columbia 1L thread the other day and seeing the story of all the gunners and "A-type personalities" reinforced my perception,
ranking: despite the love for Chicago, and the fact that I believe it is underrated by USNews, I won't deny that it's rank at 7 and the generalization that "it's in decline" gave me a bit of pause, compared to NYU and Columbia which continue to vie for 4/5
money: NYU offered me a good amount, so it made the decision easier

Those reasons are pretty typical I guess for a 0L. Now that I'm here, I would add that all of those are still good (or in the case of location/student body, better than I expected), and:

faculty: NYU's faculty is absolutely AMAZING and they easily make NYU make a top 5 school. You don't realize just how awesome it is to be learning from the people at the top of their field that wrote the casebooks until you get to class. Moreover, when time came around for summer jobs, I was surprised at just how incredibly competitive RA positions were. So many of the faculty here (that end up looking for RAs) are so well reputed and can really help take you under their guidance and assist you in securing a great clerkship (if that's what you're looking for) that it's absolutely something to take into consideration. When you are RAing for Arthur Miller, Richard Epstein, Sam Issacharoff, etc. you've got things going on from the start.
career resources: NYU hosts the Public Interest Career Fair (something I wasn't aware of lol) so it makes it easier to find a PI job I'd say (the Public Interest resources are excellent) and NYU's recent high-level clerkship placement has been phenomenal as the school has really focused on closing the gap with competitors like Columbia and Chicago.
dorms: the dorms make for great communities. The one I live in is literally across the street from the law school, so I can get to classes in about 3 minutes. This makes a hectic 1L year far less hectic.
grade inflation: lol. It's not anything massive. But I do think it helps that the faculty just recently (within the last year or two) provided for some grade inflation by way of how many A/A-s professors can give out. In an ugly economy, maybe we can trick the firms/etc. for a year or two. I've heard that NYU performed better overall than Columbia last year in EIW/firm placement because of the grade inflation...who knows; it has also been explained by career services giving students better guidance as to where to apply in this economy to have a better shot at getting a callback/job.
3 substantive classes + lawyering: is awesome. Lawyering is P/F, and for the most part you will learn things that are great for your long-term career, but the professors (particularly professors of the substantive classes) have made it such that you can't really fail Lawyering. Just do your work. So in the end you're basically taking 3 graded classes for each of your 1L semesters. I know some schools have 4. Each class requires a lot of reading and outlining. Come finals time, I was glad I only had 3.

Anyways, I hope that is helpful. If you have any questions about NYU, I'm happy to answer.

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tintin
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby tintin » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:42 pm

thank you dbt, that was really helpful and informative. useful information!!

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rayiner
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby rayiner » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:45 pm

im_blue wrote:
rob1232 wrote:Thanks for the help guys,I'm starting to think the intense atmosphere might not be enough to pass Chicago up. And what if I throw Ucla into the equation, with possibly some scholly money (keep in mind i'll prob end up practicing in LA) Still Chicago?


I would choose Chicago over a full ride at UCLA even for LA, especially in this crappy economy. This was posted in another thread on TLS today:

From the admitted students chat for Chicago with their Associate Dean for Career Services, Abbie Willard:
"We know that approximately 80% of our 2Ls have accepted positions with frims that interviewed here last fall. We also know that of the 20% who are still seeking, many of them are holding out for public interest, government positions, and fellowships that come in later in the spring."

Also, 72% of the Chicago 2Ls were placed into V50 firms. Rumor elsewhere on TLS is that UCLA placed about 15% of their 2Ls this year.


At least that last data point is from 2008 OCI.

miamiman
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby miamiman » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:49 pm

rayiner wrote:
At least that last data point is from 2008 OCI.


wait...what?

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby TaipeiMort » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:51 pm

Chicago vs. Penn...

its like asking Yale or Stanford?

or

Berkeley or Northwestern?

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:00 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:Chicago vs. Penn...

its like asking Penn vs GULC


FTFY.

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rayiner
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Re: Chicago v Penn

Postby rayiner » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:22 pm

miamiman wrote:
rayiner wrote:
At least that last data point is from 2008 OCI.


wait...what?


I know the 1L who mentioned the "72% V50" thing, and when I got the information it was qualified as being for C/O 2010. Also, there is no way in hell Chicago placed 72% V50 for C/O 2011.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2007/ ... ement.html

They had 68% V50 placement for C/O 2007, which was a boom hiring year.




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