IUB, BU, Emory, W&M, W&L

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Your opinion appreciated

Indiana-Bloomington - Full Tuition @ Good Standing
20
39%
Washington and Lee - 34k (of 38.8k) @ 3.0 (about Top 75-80%)
12
24%
William and Mary - 20.2k (of 31k) @ 3.0 (about Top 65%)
7
14%
Emory - 24k per year (of 42k) @ Good Standing
10
20%
Boston U. - No Money Yet
2
4%
Mercer (I know, I know) - Full+5k @ Good Standing
0
No votes
Stetson (Again) - Full+5k @ Top 40%
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 51

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84Sunbird2000
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IUB, BU, Emory, W&M, W&L

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:01 pm

So, I don't have a specific regional preference, as I currently live where there is no legal market (Dakotas), and am a nomad by nature. I'm more interested in PI, Gov't Jobs, and the like, but wouldn't mind having the private sector as an option if my ideology or plans morph over the next three years. Regional and National reach is a plus, but not an ultimatum.

Just give me your idea. Vote however you like :).

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: IUB, BU, Emory, W&M, W&L

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:03 pm

84Sunbird2000 wrote:So, I don't have a specific regional preference, as I currently live where there is no legal market (Dakotas), and am a nomad by nature. I'm more interested in PI, Gov't Jobs, and the like, but wouldn't mind having the private sector as an option if my ideology or plans morph over the next three years. Regional and National reach is a plus, but not an ultimatum.

Just give me your idea. Vote however you like :).


Given your options and your preferences, Emory seems to be the credited response.

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holydonkey
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Re: IUB, BU, Emory, W&M, W&L

Postby holydonkey » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:05 pm

I voted IU-B, but the W&L offer is great as well.

rapstar
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Re: IUB, BU, Emory, W&M, W&L

Postby rapstar » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:06 pm

i would take indiana. little or no debt from a good school will be nice. none of the other schools are so much better than indiana that you should take on more debt.

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baboon309
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Re: IUB, BU, Emory, W&M, W&L

Postby baboon309 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:43 pm

rapstar wrote:i would take indiana. little or no debt from a good school will be nice. none of the other schools are so much better than indiana that you should take on more debt.


Huh?
IUB is even worse than Chicago Kent......

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: IUB, BU, Emory, W&M, W&L

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:19 pm

baboon309 wrote:
rapstar wrote:i would take indiana. little or no debt from a good school will be nice. none of the other schools are so much better than indiana that you should take on more debt.


Huh?
IUB is even worse than Chicago Kent......


??? How so? Maybe Indiana-Indianapolis is worse, but not IUB.

IUB 87% Employed at Graduation, Kent 72. IUB 98.5 at 9 months, Kent, 91.8. Kent's median salaries are slightly higher at similar reporting percentages, but that entirely reflects Chicago jobs and Chicago COL. IUB's equalized COL for all placements almost certainly dwarfs the 10k (100k to 90k) median salary disparity between the two.

Indiana places 30% in-state, and 57% in the East North Central (IL, IN, WI, OH, MI), 13% South Atlantic, 8% Pacific, 5% Mid-Atlantic, some little pockets elsewhere.

Kent is 82% in-state, 84% in the ENC region, and tiny random smatterings outside of it.

Kent is Chicago or Chicago. IUB is Midwest or possibly NY, DC, CA if you are in, say, the top 1/3.

Plus, IUB has much better placement into Gov't.

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baboon309
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Re: IUB, BU, Emory, W&M, W&L

Postby baboon309 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:49 pm

84Sunbird2000 wrote:
baboon309 wrote:
rapstar wrote:i would take indiana. little or no debt from a good school will be nice. none of the other schools are so much better than indiana that you should take on more debt.


Huh?
IUB is even worse than Chicago Kent......


??? How so? Maybe Indiana-Indianapolis is worse, but not IUB.

IUB 87% Employed at Graduation, Kent 72. IUB 98.5 at 9 months, Kent, 91.8. Kent's median salaries are slightly higher at similar reporting percentages, but that entirely reflects Chicago jobs and Chicago COL. IUB's equalized COL for all placements almost certainly dwarfs the 10k (100k to 90k) median salary disparity between the two.

Indiana places 30% in-state, and 57% in the East North Central (IL, IN, WI, OH, MI), 13% South Atlantic, 8% Pacific, 5% Mid-Atlantic, some little pockets elsewhere.

Kent is 82% in-state, 84% in the ENC region, and tiny random smatterings outside of it.

Kent is Chicago or Chicago. IUB is Midwest or possibly NY, DC, CA if you are in, say, the top 1/3.

Plus, IUB has much better placement into Gov't.


http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

WHERE IS IUBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB??????????????????????????
End of discussion

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: IUB, BU, Emory, W&M, W&L

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:46 pm

baboon309 wrote:
84Sunbird2000 wrote:
baboon309 wrote:
rapstar wrote:i would take indiana. little or no debt from a good school will be nice. none of the other schools are so much better than indiana that you should take on more debt.


Huh?
IUB is even worse than Chicago Kent......


??? How so? Maybe Indiana-Indianapolis is worse, but not IUB.

IUB 87% Employed at Graduation, Kent 72. IUB 98.5 at 9 months, Kent, 91.8. Kent's median salaries are slightly higher at similar reporting percentages, but that entirely reflects Chicago jobs and Chicago COL. IUB's equalized COL for all placements almost certainly dwarfs the 10k (100k to 90k) median salary disparity between the two.

Indiana places 30% in-state, and 57% in the East North Central (IL, IN, WI, OH, MI), 13% South Atlantic, 8% Pacific, 5% Mid-Atlantic, some little pockets elsewhere.

Kent is 82% in-state, 84% in the ENC region, and tiny random smatterings outside of it.

Kent is Chicago or Chicago. IUB is Midwest or possibly NY, DC, CA if you are in, say, the top 1/3.

Plus, IUB has much better placement into Gov't.


http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

WHERE IS IUBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB??????????????????????????
End of discussion


Wow. I know that TLS engenders this sort of outlook, but....
1) NLJ 250 =/= All "market" paying jobs,
2) Not all NLJ250 pay "market" themselves,
3) Depending on where you live and where a school places, solid-paying midlaw is NOT a myth,
4) Government jobs in places with low cost-of-living provide a much higher quality of life than BigLaw,
5)Schools in big cities will have higher NLJ250 placement, but not nearly as much of a safety net (especially considering the aforementioned COL factor),
6) Did you even read my comments? You cite one year of one stat regarding an arbitrary number of large firms, while I went into detail showing how and why IUB is a MUCH better school than Kent and certainly some other schools on that list - especially given my personal concerns and goals.

Top 10%, Kent (by region and 1L and 2L internship connections) might give you a tiny bit more. At median, IUB will give you fallback options that Kent will likely not have. Plus, with higher numbers employed, Indiana's 90k median is likely slightly more accurate than Kent's reported 100k for private firms.

I don't mean to derail my own thread, but the schools on the list are my options. I didn't apply to Kent or some of those other schools on the NLJ list, and BigLaw is probably (currently) lowest on my list of future goals. Smaller and Mid-size firms and Boutiques are somewhat attractive, though not as attractive as PI, Gov't, or Clerkships of various kinds.

keg411
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Re: IUB, BU, Emory, W&M, W&L

Postby keg411 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:50 pm

I picked IU-B... but I would say IU-B or W&L would be the two I would narrow it down to. Have you visited or talked with people at any of these schools yet to get a "vibe"?

shawty18ga
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Re: IUB, BU, Emory, W&M, W&L

Postby shawty18ga » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:55 pm

Just like I told you at the Stetson Scholars Retreat, it's gotta be W & L all the way. I think that being closer to D.C. would give you more opportunities for PI stuff.

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baboon309
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Re: IUB, BU, Emory, W&M, W&L

Postby baboon309 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:06 pm

quote="baboon309"]
84Sunbird2000 wrote:
baboon309 wrote:
rapstar wrote:i would take indiana. little or no debt from a good school will be nice. none of the other schools are so much better than indiana that you should take on more debt.


Huh?
IUB is even worse than Chicago Kent......


??? How so? Maybe Indiana-Indianapolis is worse, but not IUB.

IUB 87% Employed at Graduation, Kent 72. IUB 98.5 at 9 months, Kent, 91.8. Kent's median salaries are slightly higher at similar reporting percentages, but that entirely reflects Chicago jobs and Chicago COL. IUB's equalized COL for all placements almost certainly dwarfs the 10k (100k to 90k) median salary disparity between the two.

Indiana places 30% in-state, and 57% in the East North Central (IL, IN, WI, OH, MI), 13% South Atlantic, 8% Pacific, 5% Mid-Atlantic, some little pockets elsewhere.

Kent is 82% in-state, 84% in the ENC region, and tiny random smatterings outside of it.

Kent is Chicago or Chicago. IUB is Midwest or possibly NY, DC, CA if you are in, say, the top 1/3.

Plus, IUB has much better placement into Gov't.


http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

WHERE IS IUBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB??????????????????????????
End of discussion[/quote]

Wow. I know that TLS engenders this sort of outlook, but....
1) NLJ 250 =/= All "market" paying jobs,
2) Not all NLJ250 pay "market" themselves,
3) Depending on where you live and where a school places, solid-paying midlaw is NOT a myth,

Can you back these claims up?
I've asked a couple times about this, but it seems like that no one can really come up with any data (Especially in IN or surrounding states) The third one mainly.

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: IUB, BU, Emory, W&M, W&L

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:15 pm

keg411 wrote:I picked IU-B... but I would say IU-B or W&L would be the two I would narrow it down to. Have you visited or talked with people at any of these schools yet to get a "vibe"?


I've talked with admissions people, but I haven't really talked to any students yet. I am planning on visiting them in the next few weeks (April 2/3 at Wash. and Lee).

As far as the vibe, I think that the location of Wash. and Lee is the best for me. However, Indiana does have a really amazing JD/MPA (their MPA is tied with the Harvard Kennedy School for 2nd best overall) program, plus I will likely save about 15-20k as it stands going to Indiana. That is a pittance relative to the satisfaction and even total earnings of a lifetime, I guess, but nonetheless a relevant article for consideration.

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: IUB, BU, Emory, W&M, W&L

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:23 pm

baboon309 wrote:
Wow. I know that TLS engenders this sort of outlook, but....
1) NLJ 250 =/= All "market" paying jobs,
2) Not all NLJ250 pay "market" themselves,
3) Depending on where you live and where a school places, solid-paying midlaw is NOT a myth,

Can you back these claims up?
I've asked a couple times about this, but it seems like that no one can really come up with any data (Especially in IN or surrounding states) The third one mainly.


1 and 2 are easily proved by looking at their salaries listed at NALP and on other posts on here (from those who are more diligent researchers of "BigLaw").

For 3: Well, look at the breakdowns by employer size at different schools. Those employers with between, say, 25-150 lawyers would probably be called midlaw. According to the NALP yearly breakdown of salaries, between 15 and 25% of all new jobs (year over year) fall between about 60k and 125k. Certainly, some regions, due to cost-of-living, relative size of the legal market, etc... will have a larger percentage of these kind of jobs. The Midwest outside of Chicago would be a place where those kind of jobs would (almost by mathematical necessity) be quite prominent, because of the number of larger secondary and tertiary markets.

I won't pretend to have a ton of concrete data on number 3, except to point out that there are a good amount of 25-100 person firms. I don't have the time or the inclination to dredge up every piece of data on NALP that I can in order to verify precisely how many hire how many students, and clearly neither has anyone else. I understand your skepticism, but I don't think it's warranted given the number of students hired in certain salary ranges (above gov't and PD in all but a very few places but below nearly every large or very large law firm's pay)




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