OSU vs Iowa

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OSU vs Iowa

Ohio State (w/ $30K)
18
38%
Iowa (w/ full ride)
29
62%
 
Total votes: 47

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thepcv
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OSU vs Iowa

Postby thepcv » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:07 am

So, on the surface, this one seems pretty clear. Iowa is ranked higher, and they're offering me more money (it's the Law Opportunity Fellowship, so I'll have to work 10 hours/week as an RA during 2 & 3L). Ohio State is offering me $30K (10K/year) with only needing to maintain a 2.0. Though, realistically, I could probably get OSU to offer more money (or at the very least, I'll likely get a substantial amount of need based grants--I'm a Peace Corps volunteer, and my total wages for last year = less than 5K).

I'm most interested in Public Interest / Criminal Law (really, my primary interest is international law--but I'm being realistic about what I'll be able to do after graduation). I'm also from Ohio, so I know a lot of people/places in and around Columbus.

Is this still a no-brainer/go with Iowa? Or do we think that employment prospects will be better out of OSU (especially considering criminal law)?

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TTH
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby TTH » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:17 am

thepcv wrote:So, on the surface, this one seems pretty clear. Iowa is ranked higher, and they're offering me more money (it's the Law Opportunity Fellowship, so I'll have to work 10 hours/week as an RA during 2 & 3L). Ohio State is offering me $30K (10K/year) with only needing to maintain a 2.0. Though, realistically, I could probably get OSU to offer more money (or at the very least, I'll likely get a substantial amount of need based grants--I'm a Peace Corps volunteer, and my total wages for last year = less than 5K).

I'm most interested in Public Interest / Criminal Law (really, my primary interest is international law--but I'm being realistic about what I'll be able to do after graduation). I'm also from Ohio, so I know a lot of people/places in and around Columbus.

Is this still a no-brainer/go with Iowa? Or do we think that employment prospects will be better out of OSU (especially considering criminal law)?


So, I voted Ohio State for the following reasons:

1. I am an ardent Ohio State troll. I hope one day that whenever someone starts a thread about Ohio State, people will reply IBTTH.

2. Better employment prospects. Or, at least, better markets for the types of law you want to practice. I'm just regurgitating TLS consensus here, but from what I've heard, Iowa doesn't reach into Chicago especially well and BIGIOWALAW doesn't sound exciting.

3. I think the financial situation will get better. I think that with a full ride from a peer school*, Ohio State will be inclined to come off a little more money.

4. Columbus is more fun than Iowa City/Davenport. I don't remember which city is home to Iowa and which is home to Iowa State. You know why? Because it's all a big damn cornfield. (Unlike Ohio, which is a big damn cornfield with a lake!)

5. I think being a Peace Corps volunteer is cool. Therefore, I imagine you would be a cool person with whom to grab a beer.



*Yeah, I know it's ranked higher, but would anyone say Iowa, or Indiana is head and shoulders better than OSU or Wisconsin? Minnesota (and illinois a big maybe), sure, but after them, it's a pile o' Big Ten love (Penn State not included).

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thepcv
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby thepcv » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:12 pm

Thanks for the feedback TTH. The employment prospects is one of the things I'm definitely most concerned about. I'm definitely gonna think about it some more (and see if I can get more $$ from OSU), before making a decision.

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baboon309
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby baboon309 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:16 pm

thepcv wrote:So, on the surface, this one seems pretty clear. Iowa is ranked higher, and they're offering me more money (it's the Law Opportunity Fellowship, so I'll have to work 10 hours/week as an RA during 2 & 3L). Ohio State is offering me $30K (10K/year) with only needing to maintain a 2.0. Though, realistically, I could probably get OSU to offer more money (or at the very least, I'll likely get a substantial amount of need based grants--I'm a Peace Corps volunteer, and my total wages for last year = less than 5K).

I'm most interested in Public Interest / Criminal Law (really, my primary interest is international law--but I'm being realistic about what I'll be able to do after graduation). I'm also from Ohio, so I know a lot of people/places in and around Columbus.

Is this still a no-brainer/go with Iowa? Or do we think that employment prospects will be better out of OSU (especially considering criminal law)?


You won't hear anything about need based grants until July, so you shouldn't make your decision base on that. Besides the need based grants are usually only a few thousand dollars.

KNW13
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby KNW13 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:52 pm

Is Ohio where you'd like to stay after graduation? If that's the case OSU is a no-brainer.

Plus with connections, etc. that's a bonus!

cojonelso
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby cojonelso » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:06 pm

Iowa without a doubt. It is a better law school, and is giving you a better financial deal. The poster who suggested that Iowa's career prospects in Chicago are weak is misinformed; Iowa's career prospects in Chicago are better than OSU's. Iowa City is about 3.5 hours from Chicago. There are "Hawkeye Bars" in Chicago. That is how many of Iowa's grads go to Chicago. I would urge you to look up some of the largest firms in Chicago, and sort the lawyers by school. I think you will see that there are more Iowa grads than OSU grads. Similarly, the poster who suggested that Iowa is all a big cornfield is mistaken; Iowa City is a very nice town, and while Davenport isn't related to U of Iowa or Iowa State (located in Ames) it is not a cornfield either.

cojonelso
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby cojonelso » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:06 pm

If you are wanting to stay in Ohio however then I would probably stick with OSU :)

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TTH
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby TTH » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:29 pm

cojonelso wrote:Iowa without a doubt. [b]It is a better law school,


Beyond its ranking, how is it better?

The poster who suggested that Iowa's career prospects in Chicago are weak is misinformed; Iowa's career prospects in Chicago are better than OSU's.


As I said, I was only regurgitating TLS consensus, and Iowa's placement into Chicago might be better than OSU, but most OSU grads stay in state. Also, OSU places more grads into nlj250 firms, public interest, and government than Iowa.

Iowa City is about 3.5 hours from Chicago. There are "Hawkeye Bars" in Chicago. That is how many of Iowa's grads go to Chicago.


...as bartenders? :)

Similarly, the poster who suggested that Iowa is all a big cornfield is mistaken


May or may not be true. Even if Iowa is not a big cornfield, it pales in comparison to Ohio.

cojonelso
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby cojonelso » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:01 pm

The legal field is very sensitive to rankings; Iowa has consistently been ranked substantially higher than OSU. Iowa's current rank of 26 is low for the school; I believe in 2002 it was a top 20 and has slowly slid. While the merits of the ranking system are justifiably called into question I believe there is some substance behind the rankings. Do you think we should disregard the rankings? ;)
Iowa's faculty is extremely good, as is their legal writing program. It makes sense that their legal writing program is good because the University is home to the #1 creative writing program in the nation...students can draw from those resources. I would choose Iowa over OSU for those reasons (and the Chicago placement, but that's because it's where I want to end up and may not be what OP wants.) Not to mention Iowa's football team will win the big ten next year ;) ;)

If you look in terms of career prospects, it obviously depends and like I said if the OP wants to stay in Ohio, then the career prospects would be better there with a degree from OSU. If the OP wants to do BIGLAW, I believe OSU and Iowa are about even in terms of top 250 firm placement, though it is partially distorted as many Iowa grads choose to stay in Iowa where there aren't really any large firms, so there is definitely a self-selection bias going on. Really depends where you want to live. I give Iowa the easy advantage in the Chicago market due to it's proximity. The large number of hawkeye bars is a testament to large number of Iowa grads in chicago, not to the fact that we make some great drinks ;) Seriously though, come check out Iowa City before you knock it...obviously not as big as Columbus but I think you would be surprised.

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baboon309
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby baboon309 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:26 pm

cojonelso wrote:The legal field is very sensitive to rankings; Iowa has consistently been ranked substantially higher than OSU. Iowa's current rank of 26 is low for the school; I believe in 2002 it was a top 20 and has slowly slid. While the merits of the ranking system are justifiably called into question I believe there is some substance behind the rankings. Do you think we should disregard the rankings? ;)
Iowa's faculty is extremely good, as is their legal writing program. It makes sense that their legal writing program is good because the University is home to the #1 creative writing program in the nation...students can draw from those resources. I would choose Iowa over OSU for those reasons (and the Chicago placement, but that's because it's where I want to end up and may not be what OP wants.) Not to mention Iowa's football team will win the big ten next year ;) ;)

If you look in terms of career prospects, it obviously depends and like I said if the OP wants to stay in Ohio, then the career prospects would be better there with a degree from OSU. If the OP wants to do BIGLAW, I believe OSU and Iowa are about even in terms of top 250 firm placement, though it is partially distorted as many Iowa grads choose to stay in Iowa where there aren't really any large firms, so there is definitely a self-selection bias going on. Really depends where you want to live. I give Iowa the easy advantage in the Chicago market due to it's proximity. The large number of hawkeye bars is a testament to large number of Iowa grads in chicago, not to the fact that we make some great drinks ;) Seriously though, come check out Iowa City before you knock it...obviously not as big as Columbus but I think you would be surprised.


They dont really care about T25 or T35.

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Cole S. Law
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby Cole S. Law » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:50 pm

If you're interested in Criminal Law, Josh Dressler (one of the top criminal scholars in America) is on the OSU faculty. Also, isn't OSU going to be cheaper with instate vs. Iowa out of state? As far as a ranking difference of 4 spots goes, take that and and handful of pennies and you can buy yourself some GM stock.


cojonelso
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby cojonelso » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:26 am

With our backup quarterback, mind you.

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anthonyc350
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby anthonyc350 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:27 am

college basketball iowa :shock:

cojonelso
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby cojonelso » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:35 am

hah touche!
If only we played basketball as well as we wrestle :?

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anthonyc350
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby anthonyc350 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:40 am

if op is a wrestling fan=iowa. If you're going to chose between similar big 10 schools it should come down to sports.

cojonelso
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby cojonelso » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:51 am

Iowa is offering more money, not less. #26 to #35 isn't a huge leap, but we're talking about that combined with him receiving more money from #26. Why would he choose #35 and take less money in the process? Like we have already said rankings aren't everything, and much of it depends on what OP wants to go into and where OP wants to go.

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TTTennis
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby TTTennis » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:02 am

Cole S. Law wrote:If you're interested in Criminal Law, Josh Dressler (one of the top criminal scholars in America) is on the OSU faculty. Also, isn't OSU going to be cheaper with instate vs. Iowa out of state? As far as a ranking difference of 4 spots goes, take that and and handful of pennies and you can buy yourself some GM stock.


Huh? OSU with in-state tuition=cheaper than Iowa with no tuition? I don't follow.

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TTTennis
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby TTTennis » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:05 am

Also, it could be argued that since the OP's motivation isn't biglaw, it would be better to come out with less debt, especially considering he already has ties to Ohio (if OP ever wanted to go back to Ohio).

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TTH
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby TTH » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:53 am

Cole makes a good point about OSU's strength in Crim, and I'm still not sold on Iowa's strength in Chicago, but I'm too lazy to do the research.

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daddymike
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby daddymike » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:58 am

Cole S. Law wrote:If you're interested in Criminal Law, Josh Dressler (one of the top criminal scholars in America) is on the OSU faculty.



By whose account?

I had to look this guy up on the Moritz site. --LinkRemoved--

"he has been a Visiting Professor at some of the nation's best known law schools, including University of Michigan, University of California, UCLA, University of California at Davis, and the University of Iowa."

He lists no works, and his past teaching appointments are quite unimpressive.


If you want to compare Criminal Law professors, Iowa has James Tomkovicz (who has his own wiki page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tomkovicz) He has authored SIX Supreme Court briefs and is quoted in many criminal law textbooks.

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Doritos
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby Doritos » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:42 am

OP, I would say don't realistically expect to be working in Chicago with a degree from either institution. You could but i would expect finding a job in the state of the school you attend. I know scores of OSU law students as I went to OSU undergrad and they are all here in Ohio. I know before the monstrous beast called ITE came and devoured our dreams a fair amount of Moritz folks were movin' round the Midwest but not so much anymore. I don't expect things to be that much different at a peer school.

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baboon309
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby baboon309 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:07 am

daddymike wrote:
Cole S. Law wrote:If you're interested in Criminal Law, Josh Dressler (one of the top criminal scholars in America) is on the OSU faculty.



By whose account?

I had to look this guy up on the Moritz site. --LinkRemoved--

"he has been a Visiting Professor at some of the nation's best known law schools, including University of Michigan, University of California, UCLA, University of California at Davis, and the University of Iowa."

He lists no works, and his past teaching appointments are quite unimpressive.


If you want to compare Criminal Law professors, Iowa has James Tomkovicz (who has his own wiki page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tomkovicz) He has authored SIX Supreme Court briefs and is quoted in many criminal law textbooks.


Dressler is really famous though....

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sarlis
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby sarlis » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:10 am

baboon309 wrote:
daddymike wrote:
Cole S. Law wrote:If you're interested in Criminal Law, Josh Dressler (one of the top criminal scholars in America) is on the OSU faculty.



By whose account?

I had to look this guy up on the Moritz site. --LinkRemoved--

"he has been a Visiting Professor at some of the nation's best known law schools, including University of Michigan, University of California, UCLA, University of California at Davis, and the University of Iowa."

He lists no works, and his past teaching appointments are quite unimpressive.


If you want to compare Criminal Law professors, Iowa has James Tomkovicz (who has his own wiki page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tomkovicz) He has authored SIX Supreme Court briefs and is quoted in many criminal law textbooks.


Dressler is really famous though....


Did't Dressler literally write the text book on Crim law?

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soullesswonder
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Re: OSU vs Iowa

Postby soullesswonder » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:43 am

TipTravHoot wrote:Cole makes a good point about OSU's strength in Crim


I saw this quote and immediately thought of Maurice Clarett. Grey Goose FTW.




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