Should I choose Howard?

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Best job Prospects

U of Miami $112,500
7
21%
Howard $67,500
13
38%
Penn State $60,000
1
3%
Temple $45,000
1
3%
UNC Chapel Hill
12
35%
George Mason
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 34

justme13
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Should I choose Howard?

Postby justme13 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:27 pm

I posted my acceptance list before and the general consensus was UNC. However, after reading the Howard tread, maybe my best chance at Big Law would be Howard?

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby D. H2Oman » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:16 pm

justme13 wrote:I posted my acceptance list before and the general consensus was UNC. However, after reading the Howard tread, maybe my best chance at Big Law would be Howard?



Are you white?

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hiromoto45
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby hiromoto45 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:18 pm

What kind of URM are you? With those schools and the $ you have gotten, it seems like you could have gotten into higher ranked schools. Maybe reapply next year to T20?

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kittenmittons
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby kittenmittons » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:20 pm

Give up any hope for biglaw.

hth

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oberlin08
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby oberlin08 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:20 pm

If you are black, you have to go to HU. Correct me if I'm wrong, but HU's tuition is like 23k/yr which means they would be giving you a near full ride?

I'm not sure about white HU grads, but lots of top law firms specifically come to HU (and other top schools) to get bright black law grads.

justme13
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby justme13 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:53 pm

hiromoto45 wrote:What kind of URM are you? With those schools and the $ you have gotten, it seems like you could have gotten into higher ranked schools. Maybe reapply next year to T20?


In retrospect, I wish I had applied to more reaches. :(

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TTH
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby TTH » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:15 pm

If you're black, go to Howard. Otherwise, I'd probably pick UNC at sticker over the rest of the pack and not be thrilled about my decision.

TnT0711
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby TnT0711 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:39 am

OP still hasn't answered whether he/she is black. If so, then Howard is an easy choice, Howard owns UNC for BigLaw placement, especially considering that UNC mostly places in NC, definitely take the hefty scholarship.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby Kohinoor » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:41 am

ITT: people aware that Howard places top 20% in biglaw but failing to considered how low in the UNC class you could be as a minority as get biglaw.

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chicoalto0649
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby chicoalto0649 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:43 am

Kohinoor wrote:ITT: people aware that Howard places top 20% in biglaw but failing to considered how low in the UNC class you could be as a minority as get biglaw.



Bringing this to every thread that has "Howard" in the title:

Image

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:49 am

Kohinoor wrote:ITT: people aware that Howard places top 20% in biglaw but failing to considered how low in the UNC class you could be as a minority as get biglaw.


The credited response.

There are some things I want to say on this board, but can't.

But what I will say is be sure that you should note that Howard would actually hurt your prospects vs. UNC, trust me.

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PDaddy
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby PDaddy » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:51 am

justme13 wrote:I posted my acceptance list before and the general consensus was UNC. However, after reading the Howard tread, maybe my best chance at Big Law would be Howard?



I'm in a similar position. I turned down Howard last year thinking I was a slam for T-20 with $$. I got WL'd at every T-20 school I applied to. I got admission to schools ranging from #23 to 49, plus Miami and Howard ($$$).

I think I should just go to Howard. I believe I will get in again this year, but people keep telling me that I should go to a Top-30 over Howard, and I am still waiting on several Top-20 schools, and a few Top-10's.

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PDaddy
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby PDaddy » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:53 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:ITT: people aware that Howard places top 20% in biglaw but failing to considered how low in the UNC class you could be as a minority as get biglaw.


The credited response.

There are some things I want to say on this board, but can't.

But what I will say is be sure that you should note that Howard would actually hurt your prospects vs. UNC, trust me.


What should we trust? Do tell. Howard is a much less regional school and places grads in NY, D.C. and Atlanta. In fact, Howard places people all over, Seattle, S.F., Los Angeles...

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Herb Watchfell
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby Herb Watchfell » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:55 am

I would not want the word "Howard" plastered on my diploma.

Go to Carolina

Aqualibrium
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:10 am

PDaddy wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:ITT: people aware that Howard places top 20% in biglaw but failing to considered how low in the UNC class you could be as a minority as get biglaw.


The credited response.

There are some things I want to say on this board, but can't.

But what I will say is be sure that you should note that Howard would actually hurt your prospects vs. UNC, trust me.


What should we trust? Do tell. Howard is a much less regional school and places grads in NY, D.C. and Atlanta. In fact, Howard places people all over, Seattle, S.F., Los Angeles...



I've spoken personally with hiring partners....Aberzombie is right. One other thing to note about big law and URM's...where are all the partners? I see 2nd,3rd,4th year associates? Look at the firms they are at and the schools they went to.

justme13
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby justme13 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:39 pm

PDaddy wrote:
justme13 wrote:I posted my acceptance list before and the general consensus was UNC. However, after reading the Howard tread, maybe my best chance at Big Law would be Howard?



I'm in a similar position. I turned down Howard last year thinking I was a slam for T-20 with $$. I got WL'd at every T-20 school I applied to. I got admission to schools ranging from #23 to 49, plus Miami and Howard ($$$).

I think I should just go to Howard. I believe I will get in again this year, but people keep telling me that I should go to a Top-30 over Howard, and I am still waiting on several Top-20 schools, and a few Top-10's.


This is what I was thinking. I feel like this is a very important decision but my family is so thrilled that I "got into law school" they are useless in helping me select the right one. I only applied to three top-20 schools because they sent me fee waivers and I didn't know any better. Now I'm patiently awaiting my rejection from Columbia.

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Shot007
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby Shot007 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:46 pm

I think you have a tough choice at hand. I got into Howard and was considering applying to UNC, but I decided its not even worth it when I am in a school that will offer better placement. I mean think about it, Howard places all over the country - meanwhile UNC (though well reputed) places only in North Carolina. Unless you are dead set on staying in NC why would you even consider going there over Howard, in addition to this, when you are getting money from Howard and Sticker at UNC I think this is a slam dunk. Yeah, you might have a better regional 'name' on your diploma, but whats that going to get you if you want to have a good chance of being recruited big law.

I think the problem some people are having is that they have a hard time believe just how well Howard places...for a school ranked in the tier three, its hard to believe that its Top40 in terms of placement, owning (higher ranked) schools like UNC, American and Loyola.

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phoenix323
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby phoenix323 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:56 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:ITT: people aware that Howard places top 20% in biglaw but failing to considered how low in the UNC class you could be as a minority as get biglaw.


The credited response.

There are some things I want to say on this board, but can't.

But what I will say is be sure that you should note that Howard would actually hurt your prospects vs. UNC, trust me
.


What is this supposed to mean?

Why so cryptic?

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:01 am

Let me phrase what I said in my earlier post a different way.

A URM can get big law from the bottom quarter at UNC (or comparable school).

*Note I said "can" - there are a wide array of things that would factor in (ties to a region, experience, etc.)

If you are in the bottom quarter at Howard.........enough said.

(insert the picture TipTravHoot posted in another thread that said something like "$15 for sex isn't normal, but when you are no offered it is")

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phoenix323
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby phoenix323 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:09 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Let me phrase what I said in my earlier post a different way.

A URM can get big law from the bottom quarter at UNC (or comparable school).

*Note I said "can" - there are a wide array of things that would factor in (ties to a region, experience, etc.)

If you are in the bottom quarter at Howard.........enough said.

(insert the picture TipTravHoot posted in another thread that said something like "$15 for sex isn't normal, but when you are no offered it is")


Thanks for making everything so clear :roll: Very insightful...

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Kohinoor
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:16 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:A URM can get big law from the bottom quarter at UNC (or comparable school).

If true before, that seems not true ITE.

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Shot007
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby Shot007 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:18 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Let me phrase what I said in my earlier post a different way.

A URM can get big law from the bottom quarter at UNC (or comparable school).

*Note I said "can" - there are a wide array of things that would factor in (ties to a region, experience, etc.)

If you are in the bottom quarter at Howard.........enough said.

(insert the picture TipTravHoot posted in another thread that said something like "$15 for sex isn't normal, but when you are no offered it is")


But can a URM get BigLaw outside of NC in the bottom quarter of UNC...I highly doubt that...and I am talking placement in places such as NYC, DC etc...not just the south.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:28 am

Seriously though, employers (NLJ 250 employers more specifically) are interested in hiring URMs during both the summer, and when they graduate.

I have talked with many, interviewed with some, and have a summer job with one.

To be completely honest, I don't know why Howard gets snubbed by NLJ 250 employers. I mean logically, Howard would be the go-to place to recruit AA's. However as you and everyone else already knows, 600 employers OCI at Howard and only like 17% get NLJ 250 jobs. That my friends, is ridiculous. I tried to make sense of it for awhile, but couldn't. I think many employers just interview there just to say they have a diversity initiative and Howard is the only HBCU law progrm that most lay people know of (assuming they know of any) - so they can name drop Howard by saying they recruit there.

Case in point: Wachtell recruits from the T6 + Howard. How many Howard graduates do they have? 0

I digress....

Let's assume you were a URM starting from square one. I would recommend going to a strong school in the region you want to practice. But I would warn you to be careful if you are trying to get a job in a market that you have no pre-existing connections to (simply going to law school in the area is often not enough anymore).

If the OP wants to work in "big law" in NC, UNC/Wake are the credited responses. The OP could below the median mark and still be competitive for high profile jobs.

I honestly don't know what below median mark at Howard means. But I know it's not good.

Kohinoor wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:A URM can get big law from the bottom quarter at UNC (or comparable school).

If true before, that seems not true ITE.


I believe it is still true but you need to have connections to the market (i.e. grew up there, undergrad there, immediate family there, etc.)

Of course, in a general blanket statement form of any, I agree completely.

Shot007 wrote:But can a URM get BigLaw outside of NC in the bottom quarter of UNC...I highly doubt that...and I am talking placement in places such as NYC, DC etc...not just the south.


Think of it this way, will you have any chance at big law at all outside of the top 20% at Howard? I can say this because you will be compared to other AA's (and not ORMs - basically)

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Bigbub75
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Re: Should I choose Howard?

Postby Bigbub75 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:50 pm

[quote="Aberzombie1892"]

Case in point: Wachtell recruits from the T6 + Howard. How many Howard graduates do they have? 0


[quote="Kohinoor"][quote="Aberzombie1892"]


I just went to the Watchell website. They actually have 3 Howard grads FWIW...




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