GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

GW (sticker)
19
40%
UW (sticker)
14
30%
SCU (full-ride)
14
30%
 
Total votes: 47

UnclaimedGas
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:25 pm

GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby UnclaimedGas » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:19 am

Im sitting on a three-way fence right now.. plz help

- No strong geographical preference, except a very slight one for Seattle (thus bringing UW into the equation). Note that all three areas have horrible traffic situations...
- EE background, looking to do patent prosecution
- I have some money saved up, and I won't have to go into significant debt to attend GW or UW... but it still stings..

GW
Pros:
- The name carries further than UW or SCU
- Decent biglaw or IP boutique chances
- At DC, where Federal circuits, USPTO, and IP HQs of most large firms are located
- Highest ranked in both general ranking and IP ranking
- Huge alumni network across the nation
Cons:
- High tuition and cost of living
- Under the shadow of GULC, UVA, and in competition with a boat load of transplanting t14ers and other regional schools

UW
Pros:
- Quality of living and low cost of living
- The best school in the Northwest
- Awesome law school building and campus
- Small classes, likely the most collegial out of the three
- Seattle summers... if i am there during the summer, that is.
Cons:
- Seattle winters...
- The quarter system precludes many summer employment opportunities
- Relatively low number of IP firms

SCU
Pros:
- Full-ride
- Proximity to tech companies, externship/internship opportunities
- Guaranteed 1L summer employment (from SCU's fellowship program)
- At the world capital of EE/CS related activity
- Picturesque weather
- Nice campus
Cons:
- Not considered a "top" law school
- Will have zero national mobility- ie. i better like the Bay area
- Will have to compete with a boat load of fellow patent law students (supposedly nearly half of SCU's class have science/CS/engineering background)
- Near zero biglaw chances
- Good chance that I will end up at "small law"

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im_blue
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Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby im_blue » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:24 am

What's your EE background? If you have a good GPA from an impressive university, then that would be an argument for SCU, since law school prestige won't matter as much. IMO you should scratch UW from the list since you only have a slight preference for Seattle. Either go for GW at sticker for the best job prospects, or sacrifice that for the full ride at SCU.

UnclaimedGas
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:25 pm

Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby UnclaimedGas » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:50 am

I have BSEE and MSEE from a non-top 5, but well respected public university. I also have a couple years of experience in the semiconductor and software industry. I am not sure if that will be enough to make me stand out coming out of SCU, considering that many SCU students have work experience (in Silicon Valley) and many are from Stanford/Berkeley/UCLA/USC, all well respected engineering schools... but then the situation may be similar in GW as well. I haven't managed to get a rough estimate on the % of the student body at GW that have hard science/CS/engineering background.

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Dignan
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Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby Dignan » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:31 am

That's a tough one. I won't make a firm suggestion, but I have a few comments, in no order of importance:

1. You write that nearly half of SCU's class has a science/CS/engineering background, and you wonder about the composition of the class at GW. I don't know the actual numbers, but I would be shocked if even a quarter of the class at GW had a science/CS/engineering background. GW is excellent in IP, but it attracts a high percentage of students with government/poli backgrounds who have an interest in PI.

2. SCU is ranked well behind four other schools in the SF Bay Area alone. (Alright, Davis isn't technically in the Bay Area, but it's close enough.) In this economy, I'd be a little concerned about that.

3. Yes, all three areas have terrible traffic situations. Of the three, however, Washington DC easily has the best public transportation system.

4. Even though you are (I assume) an out of state resident, tuition at UW should be cheaper than GW.

5. I have several friends who have lived as students in DC and in Seattle, and I've lived in or around the South Bay for years. The COL differences among your options are not that significant. DC is not NYC. It's not even SF. If you're willing to live a 10-minute subway ride away from GW, you'll find many affordable housing options. Don't pay too much attention to the COL estimates that the schools give you.

Were I you, I'd probably remove SCU from consideration. That leaves you with a choice between GW and UW, which is a tough call. I'd spend as much time as possible visiting the law schools and the cities they are in. Talk to the law students, talk to some IP lawyers, and then make a choice. Good luck.
Last edited by Dignan on Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jcl2
Posts: 482
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Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby jcl2 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:13 pm

I voted for UW, but I have an obvious bias since I am going there in the fall, you can keep that in mind if you like when interpreting my comments.
A few things to consider regarding UW:

You probably already realize that even with OOS tuition UW is significantly less than GW, but you should also remember that you can get in-state for your second two years. There seems to be some confusion on this issue, but it is true, here is a link explaining: http://www.washington.edu/students/reg/residency/graduateProfessional.html

Also if you are interested in working in the western US, including CA the Southwest and the Mountain West, the GW name will not carry any farther than the UW name IMO. I have heard anecdotally from current students and graduates that many have had better success getting biglaw jobs in CA even than in the NW.

Finally, I have also heard that the quarter system doesn't pose significant problems for summer employment, most employers are willing to work around it. There is a list of 2009 summer employers that provides some evidence for that, but you now need a UW student ID to access it for some reason.

It is a tough call, I would definitely do some thorough research and visit both UW and GW. I tend to agree with the other posters that SCU is probably not a great option, especially since you won't have to take on significant debt for your the other two options. I think it really comes down to whether you want to work on the east coast or the west coast and how important a factor cost is to you.

edit: Just looked it up, the total estimated cost of attendance at GW is $210k, at UW it would be $130k with one year out of state and two years with in-state tuition.
Last edited by jcl2 on Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

vl2104
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:36 pm

Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby vl2104 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:55 pm

Here's my take:
- SCU saves you money. GW has a better name and higher rank. DC and Silicon Valley are both great locations for IP employment. UW is more of a quality of life and personal preference.
- Going to SCU does not close the door to biglaw (significantly better chances than 'zero' due to strong connections to the valley)
- Going to GW does not guarantee you a biglaw job.
- You are guaranteed to save lots of money going to SCU.
- All three schools are regional so mobility is restricted regardless.

So basically it comes down to what matters to you most.
If it's quality of life, visit the 3 schools and respective regions and decide.
If it's $$$ and employment, I would remove UW from the equation.
At SCU you get your $$$ upfront, guaranteed. At GW, you may have slightly better chances at biglaw but it's balanced by obvious uncertainties (class rank, the economy). Biglaw may not matter that much with patent prosecution anyway since mid-sized patent boutiques pay market rate.

Also, many people say that they have no geographical preference, but there often is. Weather, culture, quality of life etc will matter more and more as you get older.

This could be you, but if it isn't, I've posted something here as well:
http://www.intelproplaw.com/ip_forum/in ... 667.0.html


Good Luck!

UnclaimedGas
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:25 pm

Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby UnclaimedGas » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:03 am

Thanks everyone

One important factor that i didnt mention before is quality of education. While i am going to law school to start a legal career, actually learning law, in and of itself, is important to me. How important do you think having more prominent profs and being around people with more academic drive are to the learning experience? Or is the disparity between SCU and UW/GW not enough to make this a meaningful consideration?

And another thing, is it reasonable to assume that i will achieve a higher rank at SCU than at GW/UW? I mean, LSAT by itself is supposedly a decent predictor of law school success (50% correlation or something, that's pretty high imo), and combined with GPA, do you think i could roughly estimate the range of my rank, or is this ill-advised considering the crapshoot-ness of law school exams? If i subsequently predict that i will be at, say, top 10~30% at SCU and top 40~60% at GW or UW, my job prospects seem pretty similar. If the law school selection process is about gauging the probability of my success coming out of a law school and weighing it against the cost, shouldn't the probability that i would rank high at a school also be a factor?

vl2104 wrote:Here's my take:
- SCU saves you money. GW has a better name and higher rank. DC and Silicon Valley are both great locations for IP employment. UW is more of a quality of life and personal preference.
- Going to SCU does not close the door to biglaw (significantly better chances than 'zero' due to strong connections to the valley)
- Going to GW does not guarantee you a biglaw job.
- You are guaranteed to save lots of money going to SCU.
- All three schools are regional so mobility is restricted regardless.

So basically it comes down to what matters to you most.
If it's quality of life, visit the 3 schools and respective regions and decide.
If it's $$$ and employment, I would remove UW from the equation.
At SCU you get your $$$ upfront, guaranteed. At GW, you may have slightly better chances at biglaw but it's balanced by obvious uncertainties (class rank, the economy). Biglaw may not matter that much with patent prosecution anyway since mid-sized patent boutiques pay market rate.

Also, many people say that they have no geographical preference, but there often is. Weather, culture, quality of life etc will matter more and more as you get older.

This could be you, but if it isn't, I've posted something here as well:
http://www.intelproplaw.com/ip_forum/in ... 667.0.html


Good Luck!


Yes, that is me. Good find! Thanks again

User avatar
jcl2
Posts: 482
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:27 pm

Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby jcl2 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:43 am

UnclaimedGas wrote:Thanks everyone

One important factor that i didnt mention before is quality of education. While i am going to law school to start a legal career, actually learning law, in and of itself, is important to me. How important do you think having more prominent profs and being around people with more academic drive are to the learning experience? Or is the disparity between SCU and UW/GW not enough to make this a meaningful consideration?

And another thing, is it reasonable to assume that i will achieve a higher rank at SCU than at GW/UW? I mean, LSAT by itself is supposedly a decent predictor of law school success (50% correlation or something, that's pretty high imo), and combined with GPA, do you think i could roughly estimate the range of my rank, or is this ill-advised considering the crapshoot-ness of law school exams? If i subsequently predict that i will be at, say, top 10~30% at SCU and top 40~60% at GW or UW, my job prospects seem pretty similar. If the law school selection process is about gauging the probability of my success coming out of a law school and weighing it against the cost, shouldn't the probability that i would rank high at a school also be a factor?

vl2104 wrote:Here's my take:
- SCU saves you money. GW has a better name and higher rank. DC and Silicon Valley are both great locations for IP employment. UW is more of a quality of life and personal preference.
- Going to SCU does not close the door to biglaw (significantly better chances than 'zero' due to strong connections to the valley)
- Going to GW does not guarantee you a biglaw job.
- You are guaranteed to save lots of money going to SCU.
- All three schools are regional so mobility is restricted regardless.

So basically it comes down to what matters to you most.
If it's quality of life, visit the 3 schools and respective regions and decide.
If it's $$$ and employment, I would remove UW from the equation.
At SCU you get your $$$ upfront, guaranteed. At GW, you may have slightly better chances at biglaw but it's balanced by obvious uncertainties (class rank, the economy). Biglaw may not matter that much with patent prosecution anyway since mid-sized patent boutiques pay market rate.

Also, many people say that they have no geographical preference, but there often is. Weather, culture, quality of life etc will matter more and more as you get older.

This could be you, but if it isn't, I've posted something here as well:
http://www.intelproplaw.com/ip_forum/in ... 667.0.html


Good Luck!


Yes, that is me. Good find! Thanks again


The consensus on this site seems to be that while lsat scores roughly correlate with 1L grades, and are thus a useful tool for law schools to use in admission, the relationship is not nearly strong enough to be a very good predictor in any individual case. How well you do in law school will be much more strongly related to how hard and effectively you work than whether you had an lsat a few points higher than most of your classmates. Remember also, we are talking about relatively small differences in scores, schools likely wouldn't care about 1,2 or even 4 points difference in lsat scores if it wasn't for the US news rankings, other factors would be more important in determining who to admit between students with scores that close, and I doubt that a score difference of only a few points indicates much in terms of likelihood of success in law school. If you were going to a tier 3 or 4 school where your lsat was 10 or more points higher than average, maybe you could bank on finishing towards the top of your class, but at a tier 2 most of the students are still very smart and, in fact, will be working harder than students at higher ranked schools because they all know they need to near the top of their class to get the best jobs. In short, low debt is a good reason to consider SCU, but don't assume that you will be able to easily finish in the top 10% just because you could have gone to higher ranked schools.

UnclaimedGas
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:25 pm

Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby UnclaimedGas » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:22 pm

jcl2 wrote:
UnclaimedGas wrote:Thanks everyone

One important factor that i didnt mention before is quality of education. While i am going to law school to start a legal career, actually learning law, in and of itself, is important to me. How important do you think having more prominent profs and being around people with more academic drive are to the learning experience? Or is the disparity between SCU and UW/GW not enough to make this a meaningful consideration?

And another thing, is it reasonable to assume that i will achieve a higher rank at SCU than at GW/UW? I mean, LSAT by itself is supposedly a decent predictor of law school success (50% correlation or something, that's pretty high imo), and combined with GPA, do you think i could roughly estimate the range of my rank, or is this ill-advised considering the crapshoot-ness of law school exams? If i subsequently predict that i will be at, say, top 10~30% at SCU and top 40~60% at GW or UW, my job prospects seem pretty similar. If the law school selection process is about gauging the probability of my success coming out of a law school and weighing it against the cost, shouldn't the probability that i would rank high at a school also be a factor?

vl2104 wrote:Here's my take:
- SCU saves you money. GW has a better name and higher rank. DC and Silicon Valley are both great locations for IP employment. UW is more of a quality of life and personal preference.
- Going to SCU does not close the door to biglaw (significantly better chances than 'zero' due to strong connections to the valley)
- Going to GW does not guarantee you a biglaw job.
- You are guaranteed to save lots of money going to SCU.
- All three schools are regional so mobility is restricted regardless.

So basically it comes down to what matters to you most.
If it's quality of life, visit the 3 schools and respective regions and decide.
If it's $$$ and employment, I would remove UW from the equation.
At SCU you get your $$$ upfront, guaranteed. At GW, you may have slightly better chances at biglaw but it's balanced by obvious uncertainties (class rank, the economy). Biglaw may not matter that much with patent prosecution anyway since mid-sized patent boutiques pay market rate.

Also, many people say that they have no geographical preference, but there often is. Weather, culture, quality of life etc will matter more and more as you get older.

This could be you, but if it isn't, I've posted something here as well:
http://www.intelproplaw.com/ip_forum/in ... 667.0.html


Good Luck!


Yes, that is me. Good find! Thanks again


The consensus on this site seems to be that while lsat scores roughly correlate with 1L grades, and are thus a useful tool for law schools to use in admission, the relationship is not nearly strong enough to be a very good predictor in any individual case. How well you do in law school will be much more strongly related to how hard and effectively you work than whether you had an lsat a few points higher than most of your classmates. Remember also, we are talking about relatively small differences in scores, schools likely wouldn't care about 1,2 or even 4 points difference in lsat scores if it wasn't for the US news rankings, other factors would be more important in determining who to admit between students with scores that close, and I doubt that a score difference of only a few points indicates much in terms of likelihood of success in law school. If you were going to a tier 3 or 4 school where your lsat was 10 or more points higher than average, maybe you could bank on finishing towards the top of your class, but at a tier 2 most of the students are still very smart and, in fact, will be working harder than students at higher ranked schools because they all know they need to near the top of their class to get the best jobs. In short, low debt is a good reason to consider SCU, but don't assume that you will be able to easily finish in the top 10% just because you could have gone to higher ranked schools.


i was not speculating that i will be able to finish at a certain range of rank at SCU, but rather, that i will likely finish at a higher rank in SCU than in UW/GW. If this is a reasonable expectation, it would make me lean strongly towards SCU with all things considered.

But i guess you are suggesting that students at a tier2 such as SCU work harder than those at UW/GW? Is this just your opinion, or has this been discussed in TLS or elsewhere? I agree that these students have to work harder to get good jobs, but wouldn't their track record (GPA, softs) indicate that they have not worked as hard in the past as, for instance, UW/GW students, and so that this trend is likely to continue in law school?

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jcl2
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Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby jcl2 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:23 pm

UnclaimedGas wrote:
jcl2 wrote:
UnclaimedGas wrote:Thanks everyone

One important factor that i didnt mention before is quality of education. While i am going to law school to start a legal career, actually learning law, in and of itself, is important to me. How important do you think having more prominent profs and being around people with more academic drive are to the learning experience? Or is the disparity between SCU and UW/GW not enough to make this a meaningful consideration?

And another thing, is it reasonable to assume that i will achieve a higher rank at SCU than at GW/UW? I mean, LSAT by itself is supposedly a decent predictor of law school success (50% correlation or something, that's pretty high imo), and combined with GPA, do you think i could roughly estimate the range of my rank, or is this ill-advised considering the crapshoot-ness of law school exams? If i subsequently predict that i will be at, say, top 10~30% at SCU and top 40~60% at GW or UW, my job prospects seem pretty similar. If the law school selection process is about gauging the probability of my success coming out of a law school and weighing it against the cost, shouldn't the probability that i would rank high at a school also be a factor?

vl2104 wrote:Here's my take:
- SCU saves you money. GW has a better name and higher rank. DC and Silicon Valley are both great locations for IP employment. UW is more of a quality of life and personal preference.
- Going to SCU does not close the door to biglaw (significantly better chances than 'zero' due to strong connections to the valley)
- Going to GW does not guarantee you a biglaw job.
- You are guaranteed to save lots of money going to SCU.
- All three schools are regional so mobility is restricted regardless.

So basically it comes down to what matters to you most.
If it's quality of life, visit the 3 schools and respective regions and decide.
If it's $$$ and employment, I would remove UW from the equation.
At SCU you get your $$$ upfront, guaranteed. At GW, you may have slightly better chances at biglaw but it's balanced by obvious uncertainties (class rank, the economy). Biglaw may not matter that much with patent prosecution anyway since mid-sized patent boutiques pay market rate.

Also, many people say that they have no geographical preference, but there often is. Weather, culture, quality of life etc will matter more and more as you get older.

This could be you, but if it isn't, I've posted something here as well:
http://www.intelproplaw.com/ip_forum/in ... 667.0.html


Good Luck!


Yes, that is me. Good find! Thanks again


The consensus on this site seems to be that while lsat scores roughly correlate with 1L grades, and are thus a useful tool for law schools to use in admission, the relationship is not nearly strong enough to be a very good predictor in any individual case. How well you do in law school will be much more strongly related to how hard and effectively you work than whether you had an lsat a few points higher than most of your classmates. Remember also, we are talking about relatively small differences in scores, schools likely wouldn't care about 1,2 or even 4 points difference in lsat scores if it wasn't for the US news rankings, other factors would be more important in determining who to admit between students with scores that close, and I doubt that a score difference of only a few points indicates much in terms of likelihood of success in law school. If you were going to a tier 3 or 4 school where your lsat was 10 or more points higher than average, maybe you could bank on finishing towards the top of your class, but at a tier 2 most of the students are still very smart and, in fact, will be working harder than students at higher ranked schools because they all know they need to near the top of their class to get the best jobs. In short, low debt is a good reason to consider SCU, but don't assume that you will be able to easily finish in the top 10% just because you could have gone to higher ranked schools.


i was not speculating that i will be able to finish at a certain range of rank at SCU, but rather, that i will likely finish at a higher rank in SCU than in UW/GW. If this is a reasonable expectation, it would make me lean strongly towards SCU with all things considered.

But i guess you are suggesting that students at a tier2 such as SCU work harder than those at UW/GW? Is this just your opinion, or has this been discussed in TLS or elsewhere? I agree that these students have to work harder to get good jobs, but wouldn't their track record (GPA, softs) indicate that they have not worked as hard in the past as, for instance, UW/GW students, and so that this trend is likely to continue in law school?


I don't think it is a reasonable expectation that you would rank higher at SCU than at UW/GW, at least not significantly so. The likelihood that you will finish higher in the class may be a little higher, but I think it is too hard to predict to use as a basis for decision making. That is just my opinion, I don't have any real real research to back it up, but it does seem to be a topic that comes up somewhat regularly on TLS, and the general consensus is that you shouldn't try to make any predictions about where you will finish in your class based on the rank of the school.

Going to SCU may well be a good decision based on location and cost, I just don't think trying to figure out where you will finish in your class should factor into your decision.

UnclaimedGas
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:25 pm

Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby UnclaimedGas » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:50 pm

jcl2 wrote:
UnclaimedGas wrote:
jcl2 wrote:
UnclaimedGas wrote:Thanks everyone

One important factor that i didnt mention before is quality of education. While i am going to law school to start a legal career, actually learning law, in and of itself, is important to me. How important do you think having more prominent profs and being around people with more academic drive are to the learning experience? Or is the disparity between SCU and UW/GW not enough to make this a meaningful consideration?

And another thing, is it reasonable to assume that i will achieve a higher rank at SCU than at GW/UW? I mean, LSAT by itself is supposedly a decent predictor of law school success (50% correlation or something, that's pretty high imo), and combined with GPA, do you think i could roughly estimate the range of my rank, or is this ill-advised considering the crapshoot-ness of law school exams? If i subsequently predict that i will be at, say, top 10~30% at SCU and top 40~60% at GW or UW, my job prospects seem pretty similar. If the law school selection process is about gauging the probability of my success coming out of a law school and weighing it against the cost, shouldn't the probability that i would rank high at a school also be a factor?

The consensus on this site seems to be that while lsat scores roughly correlate with 1L grades, and are thus a useful tool for law schools to use in admission, the relationship is not nearly strong enough to be a very good predictor in any individual case. How well you do in law school will be much more strongly related to how hard and effectively you work than whether you had an lsat a few points higher than most of your classmates. Remember also, we are talking about relatively small differences in scores, schools likely wouldn't care about 1,2 or even 4 points difference in lsat scores if it wasn't for the US news rankings, other factors would be more important in determining who to admit between students with scores that close, and I doubt that a score difference of only a few points indicates much in terms of likelihood of success in law school. If you were going to a tier 3 or 4 school where your lsat was 10 or more points higher than average, maybe you could bank on finishing towards the top of your class, but at a tier 2 most of the students are still very smart and, in fact, will be working harder than students at higher ranked schools because they all know they need to near the top of their class to get the best jobs. In short, low debt is a good reason to consider SCU, but don't assume that you will be able to easily finish in the top 10% just because you could have gone to higher ranked schools.


i was not speculating that i will be able to finish at a certain range of rank at SCU, but rather, that i will likely finish at a higher rank in SCU than in UW/GW. If this is a reasonable expectation, it would make me lean strongly towards SCU with all things considered.

But i guess you are suggesting that students at a tier2 such as SCU work harder than those at UW/GW? Is this just your opinion, or has this been discussed in TLS or elsewhere? I agree that these students have to work harder to get good jobs, but wouldn't their track record (GPA, softs) indicate that they have not worked as hard in the past as, for instance, UW/GW students, and so that this trend is likely to continue in law school?


I don't think it is a reasonable expectation that you would rank higher at SCU than at UW/GW, at least not significantly so. The likelihood that you will finish higher in the class may be a little higher, but I think it is too hard to predict to use as a basis for decision making. That is just my opinion, I don't have any real real research to back it up, but it does seem to be a topic that comes up somewhat regularly on TLS, and the general consensus is that you shouldn't try to make any predictions about where you will finish in your class based on the rank of the school.

Going to SCU may well be a good decision based on location and cost, I just don't think trying to figure out where you will finish in your class should factor into your decision.


Makes sense, i guess. Your grades are determined solely by the final exams, the marking criteria are often haphazard in nature, people are often misguided on what/how to study, etc. The correlation between hours spent studying and grades is consequently not linear, squashing the conventional wisdom that hard working and smart students get higher grades.

But it is more likely that i will finish at a higher rank in SCU vs GW/UW than vice-versa. Sure there's much randomness involved, but there still must be SOME correlation between hours put in to studying vs law school performance. And I don't fully buy the notion that students at a tier2 will work harder than those at a top school because their job prospects are worse. If these students cared so much about getting the opportunity to slave away for big bucks (biglaw), they probably would have studied harder at school and for the LSAT. People generally dont change drastically. So ya, while the likelihood of finishing at a higher rank will not play a major part in my decision, it IS a minor factor that i could consider if other considerations (where i want to live, job prospects, school atmosphere, etc) were not enough to help me decide in the end. After all, none of these other factors are a sure thing either, it's all about "likelihood" anyways. Please flame if i am way off base here.

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Veritas
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Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby Veritas » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:59 pm

I do not think GW is worth sticker.

Is GW $210,000 better than SCU? Will where you want to end up be HUGELY different if you choose SCU over GW? SCU has a good rep in California, especially for IP law. I would find it very hard to turn down that full ride (and the 1L job deal, that's sweet!!)

mhernton
Posts: 174
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Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby mhernton » Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:06 pm

Santa Clara without a doubt. I could care less about your pedigree coming from a MSEE background. I'm hiring you at a IP firm or Venture Capital Firm in Silicon Valley because your an Electrical Engineer that happens to know the law, not a lawyer that happens to know about EE. If you have work experience then some much the better, but coming out of GW 200K in debt let alone what your master's and bachelor's cost, to take a federal job, that may be there if you go to Santa Clara, makes no sense. You'll have to be willing to travel to DC to hit the pavement and go door to door for interview, but you'll have the money because law school will on cost you the cost living in the bay area. I've also talked to numerous attorneys, they all say that pedigree will get your foot in the door for your first job, after that its you reputation.

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Dignan
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Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby Dignan » Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:15 pm

Veritas wrote:I do not think GW is worth sticker.

Is GW $210,000 better than SCU? Will where you want to end up be HUGELY different if you choose SCU over GW? SCU has a good rep in California, especially for IP law. I would find it very hard to turn down that full ride (and the 1L job deal, that's sweet!!)

Is SCU offering a $70K per year scholarship? I assumed that "full ride" at SCU meant full tuition, not full tuition + complete COL.

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Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby Veritas » Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:27 pm

Dignan wrote:
Veritas wrote:I do not think GW is worth sticker.

Is GW $210,000 better than SCU? Will where you want to end up be HUGELY different if you choose SCU over GW? SCU has a good rep in California, especially for IP law. I would find it very hard to turn down that full ride (and the 1L job deal, that's sweet!!)

Is SCU offering a $70K per year scholarship? I assumed that "full ride" at SCU meant full tuition, not full tuition + complete COL.

ya, sry, good point.

$120k - still a substantial difference

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Re: GW (sticker) vs UW (sticker) vs SCU (full-ride) for IP

Postby UnclaimedGas » Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:56 pm

Veritas wrote:
Dignan wrote:
Veritas wrote:I do not think GW is worth sticker.

Is GW $210,000 better than SCU? Will where you want to end up be HUGELY different if you choose SCU over GW? SCU has a good rep in California, especially for IP law. I would find it very hard to turn down that full ride (and the 1L job deal, that's sweet!!)

Is SCU offering a $70K per year scholarship? I assumed that "full ride" at SCU meant full tuition, not full tuition + complete COL.

ya, sry, good point.

$120k - still a substantial difference


Yes, it's full-tuition, not full tuition + COL. So GW will set me back a cool $130K-ish. COL is actually probably higher at the Bay area than DC, though. So it may actually be less than that.
http://www.averyindex.com/cost_of_living.php

mhernton wrote:Santa Clara without a doubt. I could care less about your pedigree coming from a MSEE background. I'm hiring you at a IP firm or Venture Capital Firm in Silicon Valley because your an Electrical Engineer that happens to know the law, not a lawyer that happens to know about EE. If you have work experience then some much the better, but coming out of GW 200K in debt let alone what your master's and bachelor's cost, to take a federal job, that may be there if you go to Santa Clara, makes no sense. You'll have to be willing to travel to DC to hit the pavement and go door to door for interview, but you'll have the money because law school will on cost you the cost living in the bay area. I've also talked to numerous attorneys, they all say that pedigree will get your foot in the door for your first job, after that its you reputation.


Man, you are making too much sense. But just playing devil's advocate, from what i hear from a friend who's currently a patent attorney, managing dockets and billables is much easier if you can vary your work (some lit work, etc). If you are pigeon-holed as a patent prosecutor (which i may not necessarily mind), it is much harder to bill your hours. And as an engineer who knows law, i would likely be relegated strictly to patent pros work (again, i may not mind that). Not to mention that the patent law field is in flux right now, and it may be drastically altered in a few years, potentially reducing the demand for patent prosecution. Coming out of GW, if i did ok, i would still be able to find some non-patent work, whereas coming out of SCU... it would be risky.

And one another thing i want to throw into the mix is international recognition. I am korean, and may wish to return to korea some time in the future (after working in the US for a couple of years). From randomly browing korean IP firm websites, i found a couple patent attorneys who had JD or LLM from GW, which is somewhat encouraging. But like you said, school pedigree may not matter as much once i get my foot in the door of a respectable firm... i guess it's just a matter of whether i would be able to do that coming out of SCU




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