Sticker (USD) vs. Full-ride (Cal Western)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

USD vs. Cal Western

USD ($0)
33
56%
Cal Western (full ride)
26
44%
 
Total votes: 59

User avatar
Great Satchmo
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 2:34 pm

Re: Sticker (USD) vs. Full-ride (Cal Western)

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:30 pm

rando wrote:
Great Satchmo wrote:I have never heard of section-stacking of scholarship folk. I am not that familiar with how lower tier's leverage their scholarship money or out 20% of their class but section stacking would ruin the curve & rankings and I don't think schools would purposely do it in order to boot their scholarship recipients.


Do you mean at Cal Western or in general? I've heard rumblings here and there that some schools section stack, obviously, as with most "data" on TLS, it's second hand information.

BruinsFan
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:26 pm

Re: Sticker (USD) vs. Full-ride (Cal Western)

Postby BruinsFan » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:32 pm

keg411 wrote:
I know they all curve. I just think schools shouldn't give out scholarships based on it because people who end up being lower in their class are going to get lower paying jobs -> harder to pay off debt. Most people pick schools with scholarships to minimize debt and with a stip it can blow up in your face. That's all I meant. Not that the curves themselves are nasty and misleading.


Yep, I don't think you could go to a school JUST for the money for exactly that reason.

User avatar
CmonSD
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:40 pm

Re: Sticker (USD) vs. Full-ride (Cal Western)

Postby CmonSD » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:52 pm

All law schools curve 1L, it's an ABA mandate.

Satchmo, I definitely see what you're saying about an all or nothing ie. Davis/Hastings or Cal Western approach. I was able to work it out so that USD will likely only cost me 30 - 40 k more, rather than 160 k vs. 30k. I'm still open, ok not really, I'm maybe still open to the thought of Cal Western and I'm going to the legal scholars thing to check it out. Maybe I can find someone who wasn't nearly as dim witted as my original admissions person.[/quote]

Hahahaha I get the feeling they don't try very hard with locals. My "admissions counselor" is pretty much useless and doesn't follow through with emails or phone calls. Everyone I speak to that is out of the area seems to have such a different impression of the admissions office and the school itself.

User avatar
CmonSD
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:40 pm

Re: Sticker (USD) vs. Full-ride (Cal Western)

Postby CmonSD » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:52 pm

Quote fail.....sorry.

BruinsFan
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:26 pm

Re: Sticker (USD) vs. Full-ride (Cal Western)

Postby BruinsFan » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:58 pm

CmonSD wrote:All law schools curve 1L, it's an ABA mandate.

Satchmo, I definitely see what you're saying about an all or nothing ie. Davis/Hastings or Cal Western approach. I was able to work it out so that USD will likely only cost me 30 - 40 k more, rather than 160 k vs. 30k. I'm still open, ok not really, I'm maybe still open to the thought of Cal Western and I'm going to the legal scholars thing to check it out. Maybe I can find someone who wasn't nearly as dim witted as my original admissions person.


Hahahaha I get the feeling they don't try very hard with locals. My "admissions counselor" is pretty much useless and doesn't follow through with emails or phone calls. Everyone I speak to that is out of the area seems to have such a different impression of the admissions office and the school itself.[/quote]

haha it's all good. Was yours Jean Whalen? That's who mine was and she was really bad about following up as well. I mean c'mon people! If the opportunity arises, I fully plan on saying something, they wonder why students are so hesitant they don't give you any of the information you want.

User avatar
CmonSD
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:40 pm

Re: Sticker (USD) vs. Full-ride (Cal Western)

Postby CmonSD » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:14 pm

BruinsFan wrote:
CmonSD wrote:All law schools curve 1L, it's an ABA mandate.

Satchmo, I definitely see what you're saying about an all or nothing ie. Davis/Hastings or Cal Western approach. I was able to work it out so that USD will likely only cost me 30 - 40 k more, rather than 160 k vs. 30k. I'm still open, ok not really, I'm maybe still open to the thought of Cal Western and I'm going to the legal scholars thing to check it out. Maybe I can find someone who wasn't nearly as dim witted as my original admissions person.


Hahahaha I get the feeling they don't try very hard with locals. My "admissions counselor" is pretty much useless and doesn't follow through with emails or phone calls. Everyone I speak to that is out of the area seems to have such a different impression of the admissions office and the school itself.


haha it's all good. Was yours Jean Whalen? That's who mine was and she was really bad about following up as well. I mean c'mon people! If the opportunity arises, I fully plan on saying something, they wonder why students are so hesitant they don't give you any of the information you want.[/quote]

No mine is a different lady. Don't remember her last name at the moment. But yea, the only other t4 I applied to gave me a substantially greater scholarship and has been knocking down my door to try and get me to attend. So I guess if I have to choose between the two, it probably won't be Cal Western.

rando
Posts: 908
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:57 pm

Re: Sticker (USD) vs. Full-ride (Cal Western)

Postby rando » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:40 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:
rando wrote:
Great Satchmo wrote:I have never heard of section-stacking of scholarship folk. I am not that familiar with how lower tier's leverage their scholarship money or out 20% of their class but section stacking would ruin the curve & rankings and I don't think schools would purposely do it in order to boot their scholarship recipients.


Do you mean at Cal Western or in general? I've heard rumblings here and there that some schools section stack, obviously, as with most "data" on TLS, it's second hand information.


In general. And I should amend my statement to say that I have never heard of a credible source or even very credible argument for doing it. Remember that schools don't give scholarships out of charity. They want to lure those students away from higher ranked/competing schools and expect those students to be among the cream of the crop to pad their employment stats and make alumni donations in the future.
Not only would section stacking discourage future 0L's, as it is here, but would skew their numbers to ruin the employment prospects for some of their most promising students. It is silly. While they would save some scholarship money, they would lose much more in legitimacy and employment numbers.

User avatar
Great Satchmo
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 2:34 pm

Re: Sticker (USD) vs. Full-ride (Cal Western)

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:02 pm

rando wrote:
Great Satchmo wrote:In general. And I should amend my statement to say that I have never heard of a credible source or even very credible argument for doing it. Remember that schools don't give scholarships out of charity. They want to lure those students away from higher ranked/competing schools and expect those students to be among the cream of the crop to pad their employment stats and make alumni donations in the future.
Not only would section stacking discourage future 0L's, as it is here, but would skew their numbers to ruin the employment prospects for some of their most promising students. It is silly. While they would save some scholarship money, they would lose much more in legitimacy and employment numbers.


If it were egregious I'm sure it would destroy their reputation, but I'd be a little surprised if no one out there did it. I don't believe in pure malevolence from the schools, but I do see law school as an increasingly business-oriented environment, and not everything is altruistic.

Anyhow, I'm less concerned about the intent of the school and more so how I'll do. The 82/100 is rough, although I believe I can do it without too much issue, it may not allow much wiggle room if I have a tough time adjusting to the coursework or have something extraordinary happen to ding my grades. I just want a buffer to know that I don't have to pull my hair out and worry about paying $100k. I'll vie for the top anyhow, as it is part of my nature and in my interests for jobs, but no one is perfect.

rando
Posts: 908
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:57 pm

Re: Sticker (USD) vs. Full-ride (Cal Western)

Postby rando » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:22 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:
rando wrote:
Great Satchmo wrote:In general. And I should amend my statement to say that I have never heard of a credible source or even very credible argument for doing it. Remember that schools don't give scholarships out of charity. They want to lure those students away from higher ranked/competing schools and expect those students to be among the cream of the crop to pad their employment stats and make alumni donations in the future.
Not only would section stacking discourage future 0L's, as it is here, but would skew their numbers to ruin the employment prospects for some of their most promising students. It is silly. While they would save some scholarship money, they would lose much more in legitimacy and employment numbers.


If it were egregious I'm sure it would destroy their reputation, but I'd be a little surprised if no one out there did it. I don't believe in pure malevolence from the schools, but I do see law school as an increasingly business-oriented environment, and not everything is altruistic.

Anyhow, I'm less concerned about the intent of the school and more so how I'll do. The 82/100 is rough, although I believe I can do it without too much issue, it may not allow much wiggle room if I have a tough time adjusting to the coursework or have something extraordinary happen to ding my grades. I just want a buffer to know that I don't have to pull my hair out and worry about paying $100k. I'll vie for the top anyhow, as it is part of my nature and in my interests for jobs, but no one is perfect.


I would be surprised if they didn't purposely seek to put their top scholarship recipients into sections proportionally. Schools have nothing to gain by placing students they think will do the best in direct competition with each other. That would knock the students they specifically recruited out of the employment race. The students they recruited for that reason.

User avatar
Great Satchmo
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 2:34 pm

Re: Sticker (USD) vs. Full-ride (Cal Western)

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:03 pm

rando wrote:I would be surprised if they didn't purposely seek to put their top scholarship recipients into sections proportionally. Schools have nothing to gain by placing students they think will do the best in direct competition with each other. That would knock the students they specifically recruited out of the employment race. The students they recruited for that reason.


It wouldn't drop them from the school, it just might put them out of the top 25% of the class. Heck, if the stipulation for all scholarships is top 25%, and 30% get scholarships, some have to lose it by design.

Anyhow, I am not implicating all schools or anything like that, it's just a concern that students have brought to the discussion (or at least, potential students who make things up).




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: grades??, smile0751, stratton_oakmont and 6 guests