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Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:41 am
by ValiantVic
Since we're making ridiculous projection based on assumptions of information that there is no way we could know, I'll continue by making my predictions of the T-20 in 2020. Feel free to add on to it.

1. Yale
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Stanford
5. Chicago
6. NYU
7. Penn
8. NU
9. Virginia
10. Michigan
11. Duke
12. Berkeley
13. UT-Austin
14. Cornell
15. Georgetown
16. USC
17. UCLA
18. BU
19. Vanderbilt
20. Wash U

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:45 am
by autarkh
Pretty blatant anti-Cali trolling, no? :mrgreen:

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:47 am
by ValiantVic
autarkh wrote:Pretty blatant anti-Cali trolling, no? :mrgreen:


I'm a Cali resident who believes that the state economy is going to destroy the UC system so these rankings reflect that belief. Things are so bad that we're talking about scrapping the state constitution and starting from scratch.

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:48 am
by Cupidity
GWU up to at least #22, maybe ever *20 with BU, Minnesota down to 21 or 22

GWU was 20 consitently, took a huge hit from pt this year, cut the program down 66%

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:51 am
by ValiantVic
Cupidity wrote:GWU up to at least #22, maybe ever *20 with BU, Minnesota down to 21 or 22

GWU was 20 consitently, took a huge hit from pt this year, cut the program down 66%


Yeah what happened to GWU?

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:53 am
by Cupidity
ValiantVic wrote:
Cupidity wrote:GWU up to at least #22, maybe ever *20 with BU, Minnesota down to 21 or 22

GWU was 20 consitently, took a huge hit from pt this year, cut the program down 66%


Yeah what happened to GWU?


USNews last year for the first time averaged PT/FT to determine rank. It hit Fordham and GWU pretty hard. GWU esp. because they have the largest PT program of any top law school.

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:58 am
by irishman86
ValiantVic wrote:Since we're making ridiculous projection based on assumptions of information that there is no way we could know, I'll continue by making my predictions of the T-20 in 2020. Feel free to add on to it.

1. Yale
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Stanford
5. Chicago
6. NYU
7. Penn
8. NU
9. Virginia
10. Michigan
11. Duke
12. Berkeley
13. UT-Austin
14. Cornell
15. Georgetown
16. USC
17. UCLA
18. BU
19. Vanderbilt
20. Wash U


I really can't see NU ranked that high. It has the lowest peer and judge reputation scores out of the top 15 schools...much lower than most of the top 14 and that accounts for 50% of USNews rankings. (Its scores are a lot lower than Georgetown's.) I do think that the death of biglaw will make some interesting shifts in the rankings.

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:59 am
by autarkh
ValiantVic wrote:
autarkh wrote:Pretty blatant anti-Cali trolling, no? :mrgreen:


I'm a Cali resident who believes that the state economy is going to destroy the UC system so these rankings reflect that belief. Things are so bad that we're talking about scrapping the state constitution and starting from scratch.


Also a California resident and a UC system graduate.

As I understand it, 85% of the system's funding comes from the endowment, with the remainder being allocated through the state budget. The tuition hikes and the state's fiscal problems are undoubtedly going to hurt the system, but I don't think we're going to let it all go down the drain. The economy will recover, and so will California -- at some point. We just need to fix the ridiculous 2/3rds requirement for taxation bills in the state legislature, and carefully re-examine our priorities. We can start by not burning through wads of cash to jail massive numbers of people for victimless crimes. If all goes well, the later part can start this November.

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:01 am
by los blancos
Yale = Stanford
Harvard
Columbia
NYU
Chicago
Penn = UVa = Berkeley
Michigan
Northwestern
Duke
Cornell = Texas
UCLA
TTTs

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:02 am
by 09042014
irishman86 wrote:
ValiantVic wrote:Since we're making ridiculous projection based on assumptions of information that there is no way we could know, I'll continue by making my predictions of the T-20 in 2020. Feel free to add on to it.

1. Yale
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Stanford
5. Chicago
6. NYU
7. Penn
8. NU
9. Virginia
10. Michigan
11. Duke
12. Berkeley
13. UT-Austin
14. Cornell
15. Georgetown
16. USC
17. UCLA
18. BU
19. Vanderbilt
20. Wash U


I really can't see NU ranked that high. It has the lowest peer and judge reputation scores out of the top 15 schools...much lower than most of the top 14 and that accounts for 50% of USNews rankings.


If they figure out how to correct that they'll shoot up in the ranks.

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:02 am
by los blancos
irishman86 wrote:I do think that the death of biglaw will make some interesting shifts in the rankings.


lol @ the "death" of biglaw

actually, if anything, a theoretical 'death' of biglaw would probably cement the schools in the top half of the T13

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:03 am
by irishman86
Desert Fox wrote:
irishman86 wrote:
ValiantVic wrote:Since we're making ridiculous projection based on assumptions of information that there is no way we could know, I'll continue by making my predictions of the T-20 in 2020. Feel free to add on to it.

1. Yale
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Stanford
5. Chicago
6. NYU
7. Penn
8. NU
9. Virginia
10. Michigan
11. Duke
12. Berkeley
13. UT-Austin
14. Cornell
15. Georgetown
16. USC
17. UCLA
18. BU
19. Vanderbilt
20. Wash U


I really can't see NU ranked that high. It has the lowest peer and judge reputation scores out of the top 15 schools...much lower than most of the top 14 and that accounts for 50% of USNews rankings.


If they figure out how to correct that they'll shoot up in the ranks.


Part of the rep scores are based on a school's academia placement and NU places about 0 into academia every year. I guess if NU starts producing professors, it's a step.

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:05 am
by ValiantVic
autarkh wrote:
ValiantVic wrote:
autarkh wrote:Pretty blatant anti-Cali trolling, no? :mrgreen:


I'm a Cali resident who believes that the state economy is going to destroy the UC system so these rankings reflect that belief. Things are so bad that we're talking about scrapping the state constitution and starting from scratch.


Also a California resident and a UC system graduate.

As I understand it, 85% of the system's funding comes from the endowment, with the remainder being allocated through the state budget. The tuition hikes and the state's fiscal problems are undoubtedly going to hurt the system, but I don't think we're going to let it all go down the drain. The economy will recover, and so will California -- at some point. We just need to fix the ridiculous 2/3rds requirement for taxation/spending bills in the state legislature, and re-examine our priorities. We can start by not burning through wads of cash to jail massive numbers of people for victimless crimes.


That's a tall order...

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:05 am
by irishman86
los blancos wrote:
irishman86 wrote:I do think that the death of biglaw will make some interesting shifts in the rankings.


lol @ the "death" of biglaw

actually, if anything, a theoretical 'death' of biglaw would probably cement the schools in the top half of the T13


i doubt it, because non t 14s know how to place their students into non biglaw jobs, or perhaps "networking" among non top 14s will help their grads more. Getting ANY job is a struggle for JDs now.

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:07 am
by 09042014
irishman86 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
irishman86 wrote:
ValiantVic wrote:Since we're making ridiculous projection based on assumptions of information that there is no way we could know, I'll continue by making my predictions of the T-20 in 2020. Feel free to add on to it.

1. Yale
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Stanford
5. Chicago
6. NYU
7. Penn
8. NU
9. Virginia
10. Michigan
11. Duke
12. Berkeley
13. UT-Austin
14. Cornell
15. Georgetown
16. USC
17. UCLA
18. BU
19. Vanderbilt
20. Wash U


I really can't see NU ranked that high. It has the lowest peer and judge reputation scores out of the top 15 schools...much lower than most of the top 14 and that accounts for 50% of USNews rankings.


If they figure out how to correct that they'll shoot up in the ranks.


Part of the rep scores are based on a school's academia placement and NU places about 0 into academia every year.


That isn't true. Rep scores are the results of a survey. Academic placement isn't a direct factor.

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:07 am
by autarkh
ValiantVic wrote:That's a tall order...


Maybe. But I still have faith in this state's resilience.

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:09 am
by autarkh
Why is Northwestern viewed so badly? It isn't exactly a newcomer to this game.

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:09 am
by irishman86
Desert Fox wrote:
That isn't true. Rep scores are the results of a survey. Academic placement isn't a direct factor.


It affects what judges and peers think, particularly judges. I don't think NU will shoot up any time soon given its low rep scores.

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:09 am
by los blancos
irishman86 wrote:
los blancos wrote:
irishman86 wrote:I do think that the death of biglaw will make some interesting shifts in the rankings.


lol @ the "death" of biglaw

actually, if anything, a theoretical 'death' of biglaw would probably cement the schools in the top half of the T13


i doubt it, because non t 14s know how to place their students into non biglaw jobs, or perhaps "networking" among non top 14s will help their grads more. Getting ANY job is a struggle for JDs now.


guess who will start getting non biglaw jobs if biglaw dies?

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:10 am
by irishman86
autarkh wrote:Why is Northwestern viewed so badly? It isn't exactly a newcomer to this game.


Ask the peers and judges who fill out the annual surveys. I think it's partly because of its business, rather than academic slant, in its curriculum. This is also partly why it has a poor showing in academia.

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:10 am
by ValiantVic
irishman86 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
irishman86 wrote:
ValiantVic wrote:Since we're making ridiculous projection based on assumptions of information that there is no way we could know, I'll continue by making my predictions of the T-20 in 2020. Feel free to add on to it.

1. Yale
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Stanford
5. Chicago
6. NYU
7. Penn
8. NU
9. Virginia
10. Michigan
11. Duke
12. Berkeley
13. UT-Austin
14. Cornell
15. Georgetown
16. USC
17. UCLA
18. BU
19. Vanderbilt
20. Wash U


I really can't see NU ranked that high. It has the lowest peer and judge reputation scores out of the top 15 schools...much lower than most of the top 14 and that accounts for 50% of USNews rankings.


If they figure out how to correct that they'll shoot up in the ranks.


Part of the rep scores are based on a school's academia placement and NU places about 0 into academia every year. I guess if NU starts producing professors, it's a step.


They do have a new program that helps to facilitate the move of NU grads into academia so it'll probably move up in that regard.

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:10 am
by los blancos
autarkh wrote:Why is Northwestern viewed so badly? It isn't exactly a newcomer to this game.


It doesn't have the name recognition the others do to begin with. And its law school is a bit of a rising star. Plus some resent it for being Kellogg disguised as a law school.

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:11 am
by irishman86
los blancos wrote:
irishman86 wrote:
los blancos wrote:
irishman86 wrote:I do think that the death of biglaw will make some interesting shifts in the rankings.


lol @ the "death" of biglaw

actually, if anything, a theoretical 'death' of biglaw would probably cement the schools in the top half of the T13


i doubt it, because non t 14s know how to place their students into non biglaw jobs, or perhaps "networking" among non top 14s will help their grads more. Getting ANY job is a struggle for JDs now.


guess who will start getting non biglaw jobs if biglaw dies?


alumni of the employer's school (non top 14)?

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:13 am
by shaville
1. Yale
2. Stanford
3. Harvard
4. Columbia
5. Chicago
6. NYU
7. Penn
8. Berkeley
9. Michigan
10. Virginia, Northwestern
12. Duke
13. Cornell
14. Georgetown
15. UT
16. UCLA
17. USC

Re: Future Law School Rankings

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:16 am
by autarkh
irishman86 wrote:Ask the peers and judges who fill out the annual surveys. I think it's partly because of its business, rather than academic slant, in its curriculum. This is also partly why it has a poor showing in academia.


los blancos wrote:It doesn't have the name recognition the others do to begin with. And its law school is a bit of a rising star. Plus some resent it for being Kellogg disguised as a law school.


So, essentially, peer ratings are inversely proportional to how practically-focused a school is? That's pretty idiotic. Outside of Harvard and Yale, isn't the proportion of JD graduates that go into academia pretty minuscule anyway?

Also: this view isn't shared by employers, right? I thought NWU did really well with biglaw.