Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Illinois or Indiana?

Illinois
43
72%
Indiana
17
28%
 
Total votes: 60

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SOCRATiC
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Re: Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby SOCRATiC » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:55 pm

Halibut6 wrote:
SOCRATiC wrote:What if the school's rank is just a short-lived fluke? Take a look at their LSAT scores; IU's scores are comparable to the schools that occupy the slums of the T1. This can be interpretted (in a shallow kind of way) as IU's student body being composed of lower quality students; this will probably lead to IU losing its rankings within the next five years.


Again, this is referring to past data. This year's incoming class is what should really determine whether or not IU deserves the ranking. While I agree that it won't be in the top 23 in selectivity this year, it will definitely be closer to the #30 mark than the "slums of the T1."


This year's incoming class will not determine whether or not IU is worthy. Law schools have been flooded by applicants ITE, which would definitely contribute to a temporary boost in LSAT score ranges. The question is whether or not IU will be able to sustain these score ranges given their reputation for rewarding relatively immobile JDs; people that don't have a stake in IU's rankings would agree that the answer to this question is "NO." These people would also agree that IU should be dropped down to the mid thirties, and replaced by GW.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Vincent Vega » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:04 am

People continue to say that IU's admission numbers are insufficient for it to keep its rank. I don't disagree with that, but nobody has been able to sufficiently argue this to me. Their numbers didn't change last year and they still jumped in the rankings. What is going to change to knock it back down in the rankings?

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EdmundBurke23
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Re: Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby EdmundBurke23 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:21 am

Halibut6 wrote:People continue to say that IU's admission numbers are insufficient for it to keep its rank. I don't disagree with that, but nobody has been able to sufficiently argue this to me. Their numbers didn't change last year and they still jumped in the rankings. What is going to change to knock it back down in the rankings?


There are some highly manipulable aspects of the USNWR ranking system. For instance, nearly 10% of a school's score depends on the average per capita expenditure for the school. You have to remember that IU Law-> Maurer School of Law, because it received a generous $35M donation from Mr. Maurer. I understand that the technique that I'm using to draw this implicit conclusion is highly speculative. But what may have distinguished IU from the other top 40 schools is money, which potentially explains the sudden jump in rankings.

IU's reputation among judges/lawyers, academic reputation, and placement statistics, are invariably ghetto T1. I admit that there's a general lack of evidence to support this negative claim, but for now, I find now reason to believe that IU will be able to sustain its rankings in the long-run. There's more reason to believe that it won't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTuP83UiW6w

Note: This depends on the assumption that IU's sky-rocketed capital expenditures won't actually contribute to the development of a better law program. So I do see an inherent flaw on this already highly speculative analysis.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Vincent Vega » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:07 am

EdmundBurke23 wrote:There are some highly manipulable aspects of the USNWR ranking system. For instance, nearly 10% of a school's score depends on the average per capita expenditure for the school. You have to remember that IU Law-> Maurer School of Law, because it received a generous $35M donation from Mr. Maurer. I understand that the technique that I'm using to draw this implicit conclusion is highly speculative. But what may have distinguished IU from the other top 40 schools is money, which potentially explains the sudden jump in rankings.


Maurer's donation and the expenditures therefrom aren't included on last year's rankings - the donation was in December 2008, which did not allow for really any expenditures between the time of the donation and the time the rankings were determined. This year will be the first year in the rankings that these expenditures will have any effect.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Vincent Vega » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:11 am

Overall, I think IU will eventually settle in the 28-30 range, but I just get irritated by the argument that IU is certain to fall only because it is "over-ranked;" lawyers, and by extension law students, are supposed to have high levels of logical reasoning, and that argument just isn't logical.

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EdmundBurke23
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Re: Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby EdmundBurke23 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:23 pm

Halibut6 wrote:Overall, I think IU will eventually settle in the 28-30 range, but I just get irritated by the argument that IU is certain to fall only because it is "over-ranked;" lawyers, and by extension law students, are supposed to have high levels of logical reasoning, and that argument just isn't logical.


I'd be saying the exact same thing on these forums if I were stuck at IU for law school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTuP83UiW6w

Also: You could be the OperaSoprano of IU. It's Just That EZ.

Bankhead
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Re: Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Bankhead » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:28 pm

Historically, Illinois has had better job prospects. ITE, though, I'm not sure it will make a shred of difference.

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blurbz
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Re: Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby blurbz » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:30 pm

EdmundBurke23 wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:Overall, I think IU will eventually settle in the 28-30 range, but I just get irritated by the argument that IU is certain to fall only because it is "over-ranked;" lawyers, and by extension law students, are supposed to have high levels of logical reasoning, and that argument just isn't logical.


I'd be saying the exact same thing on these forums if I were stuck at IU for law school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTuP83UiW6w

Also: You could be the OperaSoprano of IU. It's Just That EZ.


He may well be the OS of IU, but I don't think that's a bad thing at all. He's realistic, well-informed, and willing to be helpful. I'm all for being obnoxious on this site, but only to people who deserve it. Halibut, in my opinion, does not deserve it.

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BiteyTLS
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Re: Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby BiteyTLS » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:47 pm

EdmundBurke23 wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:Overall, I think IU will eventually settle in the 28-30 range, but I just get irritated by the argument that IU is certain to fall only because it is "over-ranked;" lawyers, and by extension law students, are supposed to have high levels of logical reasoning, and that argument just isn't logical.


I'd be saying the exact same thing on these forums if I were stuck at IU for law school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTuP83UiW6w

Also: You could be the OperaSoprano of IU. It's Just That EZ.


You could surely find a more worthy candidate to criticize on TLS. Halibut isn't going to pay one stinking penny for his education and likely leave school with less than 25k worth of debt. Can you honestly say that is a bad decision? (As opposed to Opera and her 210k debt. The complete ignorance of her financial situation is stunning)

It was also rather amusing that as soon as your lengthy conspiracy screed regarding the Mauer donation and News-Review statistics was proven to be a complete fabrication- you moved on without acknowledging your error and only proceeded to move the goal posts. It honestly reminded me of the argumentative tactics of the alt-med folks. You logically slam one of their stupid theories down and they simply move on to another acting as if nothing is amiss.

IU has tons of money and a massive increase in applications/medians (applications up over 60 percent) in the past year. Who says they cannot keep their ranking in the high-20s?
Last edited by BiteyTLS on Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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BiteyTLS
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Re: Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby BiteyTLS » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:58 pm

Also, OP, both are too expensive as they stand. IU doesn't have the best NJ data, and Illinois seems posed for decline after all the scandals.


If you have over a 164, I would attempt to use other offers to get more out of Indiana.

Bankhead
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Re: Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Bankhead » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:59 pm

BiteyTLS wrote:Also, OP, both are too expensive as they stand. IU doesn't have the best NJ data, and Illinois seems posed for decline after all the scandals.


If you have over a 164, I would attempt to use other offers to get more out of Indiana.


I wouldn't say 15k a year plus COL to attend either one of these schools is a bad deal.

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madmartigan
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Re: Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby madmartigan » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:24 pm

If you're not sure what you want to do with yourself, I would take Illinois. I would imagine Illinois would get you into Indiana market better than Indiana would get you into Illinois market. And I think Illinois has more reach.

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fenderjsm88
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Re: Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby fenderjsm88 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:05 pm

EdmundBurke23 wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:Overall, I think IU will eventually settle in the 28-30 range, but I just get irritated by the argument that IU is certain to fall only because it is "over-ranked;" lawyers, and by extension law students, are supposed to have high levels of logical reasoning, and that argument just isn't logical.


I'd be saying the exact same thing on these forums if I were stuck at IU for law school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTuP83UiW6w

Also: You could be the OperaSoprano of IU. It's Just That EZ.


Haha that commercial is nuts. This Ken Nunn guy probably does alright, though. I know a sleazy personal injury lawyer who lives in NW Indiana that got his law degree by going up to Cooley on the weekends; he makes a couple million a year.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Help: Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Vincent Vega » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:41 am

EdmundBurke23 wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:Overall, I think IU will eventually settle in the 28-30 range, but I just get irritated by the argument that IU is certain to fall only because it is "over-ranked;" lawyers, and by extension law students, are supposed to have high levels of logical reasoning, and that argument just isn't logical.


I'd be saying the exact same thing on these forums if I were stuck at IU for law school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTuP83UiW6w

Also: You could be the OperaSoprano of IU. It's Just That EZ.


Earlier in this thread I said I would take UIUC over IU with costs equal. And I'm not "stuck" at Indiana - I also got into Illinois with $10k/year and received a full scholarship at Iowa. I had other offers, too, of course, but I want to stay in the midwest and I didn't get into any T14's, so those were my best options. It was a close call, but I chose Indiana because I liked the people I met there and loved the campus/community.




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