Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

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thelawguy777
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby thelawguy777 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:52 pm

The Brainalist wrote:
I could be wrong about Yale and Stanford and I find the lack of transparency in employment outcomes confounding. Why is it so hard for someone in stanford's career services to call up the 180 students at stanford, and just poll them with specific questions? I wish every school in the top 20 did this, and with such small classes, I don't see why we can't have clearer information. So I only pick up these small indicators of what is going on from ATL or XOXO or JDU or this site to give some idea. The thing is, I can't think of one example of someone talking about being, or knowing, a jobless 3L at Stanford or Yale. It could just be that they don't complain publicly, but it could be that fewer of them are actually jobless. I don't know.



This is a really thoughtful post. The lack of detailed, standardized, job placement information is staggering. I was visiting the University of Chicago and while I understand that they are trying to sell their product, I also don't believe that getting a job is a non-issue out of that school.

I mean, how useful would a break-down by firm and salary/bonus information be for every class? Let alone information on when job offers were received, average number of offers, and what lead to the job (i.e. internship, SA, etc...)

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crackberry
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby crackberry » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:57 pm

TheLuckyOne wrote:LOL as I said before: it's not where you go (I'm talking about HYS here), but what you are. It's that simple.

When it comes to HYS, it's a lot about self-selection, Yalies tend not to be that interested in $$$$$$$, hence, they may be totally fine having taken some not-so-good opportunity or just work at some small non-profit for a while.

Harvard tends to attract lots of assholes with money-frenzy in their minds. These graduates are not Ok with making $120 because they are ENTITLED to $160+bonus or that they have to do nothing to find a job since they are supposed to be sought after. Thus, they are sitting there waiting for manna from heaven.

I would still choose Harvard over any other school without any hesitation. That statistics tells me nothing since I know nothing about personalities of those who are left offers-less.

LuckyOne, I'm fascinated by you. From all your posts, it seems you are the ultimate prestige-whore (HLS over any school no matter what), yet you don't even pretend to hide that. What is it about Harvard that is so alluring to you?

Also I understand how that question could come off rudely. I don't mean to be rude. Every top school has those people who are fanatical about it. I am that way about Stanford, but I would give serious thought to Yale if I got in. I guess what I'm wondering is: why are you SO in love with Harvard that every other school is rendered basically irrelevant?

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby TheLuckyOne » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:24 pm

crackberry wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:LOL as I said before: it's not where you go (I'm talking about HYS here), but what you are. It's that simple.

When it comes to HYS, it's a lot about self-selection, Yalies tend not to be that interested in $$$$$$$, hence, they may be totally fine having taken some not-so-good opportunity or just work at some small non-profit for a while.

Harvard tends to attract lots of assholes with money-frenzy in their minds. These graduates are not Ok with making $120 because they are ENTITLED to $160+bonus or that they have to do nothing to find a job since they are supposed to be sought after. Thus, they are sitting there waiting for manna from heaven.

I would still choose Harvard over any other school without any hesitation. That statistics tells me nothing since I know nothing about personalities of those who are left offers-less.

LuckyOne, I'm fascinated by you. From all your posts, it seems you are the ultimate prestige-whore (HLS over any school no matter what), yet you don't even pretend to hide that. What is it about Harvard that is so alluring to you?

Also I understand how that question could come off rudely. I don't mean to be rude. Every top school has those people who are fanatical about it. I am that way about Stanford, but I would give serious thought to Yale if I got in. I guess what I'm wondering is: why are you SO in love with Harvard that every other school is rendered basically irrelevant?


:shock: Really?!

As for Harvard, it has a lot to do with what I want to pursue, and I believe Harvard is the best school out there (well, Oxford could have been as well, however, it's a bit too late to think about it). Also my own biases as to why certain schools are considered better than the others come into play. I just don't really believe in USNEWS or vague statistics out there.

By the way, you know, if I were such a prestige whore, wouldn't I be after Yale no matter what? Yale has been #1 for years after all...

Oh, in my opinion, Yale has several drawbacks that Harvard doesn't have, that's why it's ultimately inferior right there.

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crackberry
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby crackberry » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:28 pm

TheLuckyOne wrote:
crackberry wrote:LuckyOne, I'm fascinated by you. From all your posts, it seems you are the ultimate prestige-whore (HLS over any school no matter what), yet you don't even pretend to hide that. What is it about Harvard that is so alluring to you?

Also I understand how that question could come off rudely. I don't mean to be rude. Every top school has those people who are fanatical about it. I am that way about Stanford, but I would give serious thought to Yale if I got in. I guess what I'm wondering is: why are you SO in love with Harvard that every other school is rendered basically irrelevant?


:shock: Really?!

As for Harvard, it has a lot to do with what I want to pursue, and I believe Harvard is the best school out there (well, Oxford could have been as well, however, it's a bit too late to think about it). Also my own biases as to why certain schools are considered better than the others come into play. I just don't really believe in USNEWS or vague statistics out there.

By the way, you know, if I were such a prestige whore, wouldn't I be after Yale no matter what? Yale has been #1 for years after all...

Oh, in my opinion, Yale has several drawbacks that Harvard doesn't have, that's why it's ultimately inferior right there.

Sorry, that came out wrong. Again, I didn't really mean it the way you interpreted it. I guess what I was trying to ask was, "please explain your reasoning for picking Harvard above all others with no questions asked?" You seem to have answered that, so I'll drop it, but I was just curious.

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Herb Watchfell
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby Herb Watchfell » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:51 pm

TheLuckyOne wrote:
crackberry wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:LOL as I said before: it's not where you go (I'm talking about HYS here), but what you are. It's that simple.

When it comes to HYS, it's a lot about self-selection, Yalies tend not to be that interested in $$$$$$$, hence, they may be totally fine having taken some not-so-good opportunity or just work at some small non-profit for a while.

Harvard tends to attract lots of assholes with money-frenzy in their minds. These graduates are not Ok with making $120 because they are ENTITLED to $160+bonus or that they have to do nothing to find a job since they are supposed to be sought after. Thus, they are sitting there waiting for manna from heaven.

I would still choose Harvard over any other school without any hesitation. That statistics tells me nothing since I know nothing about personalities of those who are left offers-less.

LuckyOne, I'm fascinated by you. From all your posts, it seems you are the ultimate prestige-whore (HLS over any school no matter what), yet you don't even pretend to hide that. What is it about Harvard that is so alluring to you?

Also I understand how that question could come off rudely. I don't mean to be rude. Every top school has those people who are fanatical about it. I am that way about Stanford, but I would give serious thought to Yale if I got in. I guess what I'm wondering is: why are you SO in love with Harvard that every other school is rendered basically irrelevant?


:shock: Really?!

As for Harvard, it has a lot to do with what I want to pursue, and I believe Harvard is the best school out there (well, Oxford could have been as well, however, it's a bit too late to think about it). Also my own biases as to why certain schools are considered better than the others come into play. I just don't really believe in USNEWS or vague statistics out there.

By the way, you know, if I were such a prestige whore, wouldn't I be after Yale no matter what? Yale has been #1 for years after all...

Oh, in my opinion, Yale has several drawbacks that Harvard doesn't have, that's why it's ultimately inferior right there.


Just another HLS-gunning douche.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:10 am

Herb Watchfell wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:
crackberry wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:LOL as I said before: it's not where you go (I'm talking about HYS here), but what you are. It's that simple.

When it comes to HYS, it's a lot about self-selection, Yalies tend not to be that interested in $$$$$$$, hence, they may be totally fine having taken some not-so-good opportunity or just work at some small non-profit for a while.

Harvard tends to attract lots of assholes with money-frenzy in their minds. These graduates are not Ok with making $120 because they are ENTITLED to $160+bonus or that they have to do nothing to find a job since they are supposed to be sought after. Thus, they are sitting there waiting for manna from heaven.

I would still choose Harvard over any other school without any hesitation. That statistics tells me nothing since I know nothing about personalities of those who are left offers-less.

LuckyOne, I'm fascinated by you. From all your posts, it seems you are the ultimate prestige-whore (HLS over any school no matter what), yet you don't even pretend to hide that. What is it about Harvard that is so alluring to you?

Also I understand how that question could come off rudely. I don't mean to be rude. Every top school has those people who are fanatical about it. I am that way about Stanford, but I would give serious thought to Yale if I got in. I guess what I'm wondering is: why are you SO in love with Harvard that every other school is rendered basically irrelevant?


:shock: Really?!

As for Harvard, it has a lot to do with what I want to pursue, and I believe Harvard is the best school out there (well, Oxford could have been as well, however, it's a bit too late to think about it). Also my own biases as to why certain schools are considered better than the others come into play. I just don't really believe in USNEWS or vague statistics out there.

By the way, you know, if I were such a prestige whore, wouldn't I be after Yale no matter what? Yale has been #1 for years after all...

Oh, in my opinion, Yale has several drawbacks that Harvard doesn't have, that's why it's ultimately inferior right there.


Just another HLS-gunning douche.


lol did you make your account just to make e-dbag comments?

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Herb Watchfell
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby Herb Watchfell » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:38 am

DoubleChecks wrote:
Herb Watchfell wrote:
Just another HLS-gunning douche.


lol did you make your account just to make e-dbag comments?


:wink:

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby TheLuckyOne » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:29 pm

Herb Watchfell wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:
crackberry wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:LOL as I said before: it's not where you go (I'm talking about HYS here), but what you are. It's that simple.

When it comes to HYS, it's a lot about self-selection, Yalies tend not to be that interested in $$$$$$$, hence, they may be totally fine having taken some not-so-good opportunity or just work at some small non-profit for a while.

Harvard tends to attract lots of assholes with money-frenzy in their minds. These graduates are not Ok with making $120 because they are ENTITLED to $160+bonus or that they have to do nothing to find a job since they are supposed to be sought after. Thus, they are sitting there waiting for manna from heaven.

I would still choose Harvard over any other school without any hesitation. That statistics tells me nothing since I know nothing about personalities of those who are left offers-less.

LuckyOne, I'm fascinated by you. From all your posts, it seems you are the ultimate prestige-whore (HLS over any school no matter what), yet you don't even pretend to hide that. What is it about Harvard that is so alluring to you?

Also I understand how that question could come off rudely. I don't mean to be rude. Every top school has those people who are fanatical about it. I am that way about Stanford, but I would give serious thought to Yale if I got in. I guess what I'm wondering is: why are you SO in love with Harvard that every other school is rendered basically irrelevant?


:shock: Really?!

As for Harvard, it has a lot to do with what I want to pursue, and I believe Harvard is the best school out there (well, Oxford could have been as well, however, it's a bit too late to think about it). Also my own biases as to why certain schools are considered better than the others come into play. I just don't really believe in USNEWS or vague statistics out there.

By the way, you know, if I were such a prestige whore, wouldn't I be after Yale no matter what? Yale has been #1 for years after all...

Oh, in my opinion, Yale has several drawbacks that Harvard doesn't have, that's why it's ultimately inferior right there.


Just another HLS-gunning douche.


I'm not sure how I should even interpret that...
If you were saying this in a negative sense, then well... the only thing I can say is that I have my goals, and I do my best to achieve them. Yes, HLS is my absolute #1 choice and I see no reason to hide that. On the other hand, just because I aim there, does not mean they will admit me, you know... I have no delusions about that.

crackberry wrote:Sorry, that came out wrong. Again, I didn't really mean it the way you interpreted it. I guess what I was trying to ask was, "please explain your reasoning for picking Harvard above all others with no questions asked?" You seem to have answered that, so I'll drop it, but I was just curious.


No problem, your question was very legitimate, by the way.

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BeastCoastHype
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby BeastCoastHype » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:47 pm

crackberry wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:LOL, my first thought. So, OP, why Stanford again?

Before I begin, you all know I am biased toward Stanford.

That said, California firms haven't been hit nearly as hard as NYC firms and Stanford grads have an easier time getting a job in California than Harvard grads (all things being equal). Numerous attorneys I've spoken to who work in Bay Area firms say that they prefer SLS grads to HLS grads because they are more sure the SLS grad actually wants California than the HLS grad. They also say that Stanford=Yale for California firms.


Crackberry officially knows absolutely nothing about the legal market. California is in the worst shape of all, ask any current law student.

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Albatross
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby Albatross » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:53 pm

They could make a pretty funny Starbursts commercial about Harvard 3L's without a job. One contradiction eating another.

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crackberry
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby crackberry » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:34 pm

BeastCoastHype wrote:Crackberry officially knows absolutely nothing about the legal market. California is in the worst shape of all, ask any current law student.

Ok. Well I've talked to more attorneys than I can count about it — and I'll trust their opinions over any 1L. Also, my point was a little more nuanced than comparing the legal markets of NYC and California. First of all, law firms in NYC were and are much more heavily focused on banking and finance than law firms in California, many of which have IP shops and various other non-banking/finance related work. The banking and finance industries took a HUGE hit in 08/09; consequently, the contractors employed by that industry suffered as well.

In addition, there are still a TON of California law firms, and Stanford owns California much more than Harvard owns New York City. Ergo, Stanford grads (assuming they are generally seeking work in California) could logically be better off than Harvard grads (assuming they are generally seeking work in NYC).

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BeastCoastHype
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby BeastCoastHype » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:09 pm

crackberry wrote:
BeastCoastHype wrote:Crackberry officially knows absolutely nothing about the legal market. California is in the worst shape of all, ask any current law student.

Ok. Well I've talked to more attorneys than I can count about it — and I'll trust their opinions over any 1L. Also, my point was a little more nuanced than comparing the legal markets of NYC and California. First of all, law firms in NYC were and are much more heavily focused on banking and finance than law firms in California, many of which have IP shops and various other non-banking/finance related work. The banking and finance industries took a HUGE hit in 08/09; consequently, the contractors employed by that industry suffered as well.

In addition, there are still a TON of California law firms, and Stanford owns California much more than Harvard owns New York City. Ergo, Stanford grads (assuming they are generally seeking work in California) could logically be better off than Harvard grads (assuming they are generally seeking work in NYC).


You are dumb. You trust the handful of random attorneys you know over the objective data of career services offices? I'm not wasting my time with you, enjoy your delusion.

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Herb Watchfell
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby Herb Watchfell » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:49 pm

BeastCoastHype wrote:You are dumb. You trust the handful of random attorneys you know over the objective data of career services offices? I'm not wasting my time with you, enjoy your delusion.


Wow. You are one angry, patronizing asshole.

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crackberry
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby crackberry » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:54 pm

BeastCoastHype wrote:You are dumb. You trust the handful of random attorneys you know over the objective data of career services offices? I'm not wasting my time with you, enjoy your delusion.

So you're going to totally ignore my point and resort to ad hominem attacks? Cool. Good luck with that as an attorney.

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adameus
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby adameus » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:34 pm

BeastCoastHype wrote:
crackberry wrote:
BeastCoastHype wrote:Crackberry officially knows absolutely nothing about the legal market. California is in the worst shape of all, ask any current law student.

Ok. Well I've talked to more attorneys than I can count about it — and I'll trust their opinions over any 1L. Also, my point was a little more nuanced than comparing the legal markets of NYC and California. First of all, law firms in NYC were and are much more heavily focused on banking and finance than law firms in California, many of which have IP shops and various other non-banking/finance related work. The banking and finance industries took a HUGE hit in 08/09; consequently, the contractors employed by that industry suffered as well.

In addition, there are still a TON of California law firms, and Stanford owns California much more than Harvard owns New York City. Ergo, Stanford grads (assuming they are generally seeking work in California) could logically be better off than Harvard grads (assuming they are generally seeking work in NYC).


You are dumb. You trust the handful of random attorneys you know over the objective data of career services offices? I'm not wasting my time with you, enjoy your delusion.



douche bag. Crack makes some good points and you're only response is that you are not wasting time with him? He wasted his time with you and your baseless arguments, the least you owe him is a reasonable response.

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby TheLuckyOne » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:47 pm

adameus wrote:
BeastCoastHype wrote:
crackberry wrote:
BeastCoastHype wrote:Crackberry officially knows absolutely nothing about the legal market. California is in the worst shape of all, ask any current law student.

Ok. Well I've talked to more attorneys than I can count about it — and I'll trust their opinions over any 1L. Also, my point was a little more nuanced than comparing the legal markets of NYC and California. First of all, law firms in NYC were and are much more heavily focused on banking and finance than law firms in California, many of which have IP shops and various other non-banking/finance related work. The banking and finance industries took a HUGE hit in 08/09; consequently, the contractors employed by that industry suffered as well.

In addition, there are still a TON of California law firms, and Stanford owns California much more than Harvard owns New York City. Ergo, Stanford grads (assuming they are generally seeking work in California) could logically be better off than Harvard grads (assuming they are generally seeking work in NYC).


You are dumb. You trust the handful of random attorneys you know over the objective data of career services offices? I'm not wasting my time with you, enjoy your delusion.



douche bag. Crack makes some good points and you're only response is that you are not wasting time with him? He wasted his time with you and your baseless arguments, the least you owe him is a reasonable response.


Why on earth was I sure that he is a she :shock:
Sorry, crackberry :oops:

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crackberry
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby crackberry » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:57 pm

TheLuckyOne wrote:Why on earth was I sure that he is a she :shock:
Sorry, crackberry :oops:

Haha no worries. I didn't know until you said it anyway. Though admittedly, if you looked at my profile, you'd know I was a guy.

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby TheLuckyOne » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:05 pm

crackberry wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:Why on earth was I sure that he is a she :shock:
Sorry, crackberry :oops:

Haha no worries. I didn't know until you said it anyway. Though admittedly, if you looked at my profile, you'd know I was a guy.


You obviously applied to too many schools than you had to. Did you really think your 3.9/170 will not land you t10?

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crackberry
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby crackberry » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:17 pm

TheLuckyOne wrote:
crackberry wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:Why on earth was I sure that he is a she :shock:
Sorry, crackberry :oops:

Haha no worries. I didn't know until you said it anyway. Though admittedly, if you looked at my profile, you'd know I was a guy.


You obviously applied to too many schools than you had to. Did you really think your 3.9/170 will not land you t10?

My LSAT is actually 169, but I also have a 161 on my record. Some of the non-T14s I applied to (UCLA, USC) were a result of wanting to stay in California and thinking I'd pick 'em over DNCG. Not really sure why I applied to UT and Vandy, those were definitely extraneous (they were, however, free), but Alabama gave me free iTunes to apply. Then I got fee waivers from the entire T14 except HYSCCNB and Georgetown (seriously Georgetown?) so I just bit the bullet and applied everywhere in the T18 (except for Penn — hate Philly). Also, TLS convinced me that I was probably OUT at HYSCCN, so I wasn't sure where to cap my apps.

Hindsight is 20/20, however, and if I'd known in September what I do now, I would have only applied to HYSCCN plus Berkeley, Michigan and UCLA.

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby TheLuckyOne » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:31 pm

crackberry wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:
crackberry wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:Why on earth was I sure that he is a she :shock:
Sorry, crackberry :oops:

Haha no worries. I didn't know until you said it anyway. Though admittedly, if you looked at my profile, you'd know I was a guy.


You obviously applied to too many schools than you had to. Did you really think your 3.9/170 will not land you t10?

My LSAT is actually 169, but I also have a 161 on my record. Some of the non-T14s I applied to (UCLA, USC) were a result of wanting to stay in California and thinking I'd pick 'em over DNCG. Not really sure why I applied to UT and Vandy, those were definitely extraneous (they were, however, free), but Alabama gave me free iTunes to apply. Then I got fee waivers from the entire T14 except HYSCCNB and Georgetown (seriously Georgetown?) so I just bit the bullet and applied everywhere in the T18 (except for Penn — hate Philly). Also, TLS convinced me that I was probably OUT at HYSCCN, so I wasn't sure where to cap my apps.

Hindsight is 20/20, however, and if I'd known in September what I do now, I would have only applied to HYSCCN plus Berkeley, Michigan and UCLA.


:shock: Holy ... 161/169 and Stanford!!!!! You must rock big time. PMed :mrgreen:

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observationalist
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby observationalist » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:30 pm

thelawguy777 wrote:
The Brainalist wrote:
I could be wrong about Yale and Stanford and I find the lack of transparency in employment outcomes confounding. Why is it so hard for someone in stanford's career services to call up the 180 students at stanford, and just poll them with specific questions? I wish every school in the top 20 did this, and with such small classes, I don't see why we can't have clearer information. So I only pick up these small indicators of what is going on from ATL or XOXO or JDU or this site to give some idea. The thing is, I can't think of one example of someone talking about being, or knowing, a jobless 3L at Stanford or Yale. It could just be that they don't complain publicly, but it could be that fewer of them are actually jobless. I don't know.



This is a really thoughtful post. The lack of detailed, standardized, job placement information is staggering. I was visiting the University of Chicago and while I understand that they are trying to sell their product, I also don't believe that getting a job is a non-issue out of that school.

I mean, how useful would a break-down by firm and salary/bonus information be for every class? Let alone information on when job offers were received, average number of offers, and what lead to the job (i.e. internship, SA, etc...)


Sorry for the late bump, but in doing some research we came across a full list of all employers/cities for Chicago's Class of 2009. If you're interested I would leverage your acceptance to contact the school and ask for the '09 list... it is, unsurprisingly, very impressive. I'd be more interested in seeing what the Class of 2010 and Class of 2011 2L summer employment looked like, since '09 was still a boom year (in which Vandy saw our highest NLJ250 placement and I would imagine highest V100 placement as well).

fortissimo
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby fortissimo » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:38 pm

BeastCoastHype wrote:
crackberry wrote:
BeastCoastHype wrote:Crackberry officially knows absolutely nothing about the legal market. California is in the worst shape of all, ask any current law student.

Ok. Well I've talked to more attorneys than I can count about it — and I'll trust their opinions over any 1L. Also, my point was a little more nuanced than comparing the legal markets of NYC and California. First of all, law firms in NYC were and are much more heavily focused on banking and finance than law firms in California, many of which have IP shops and various other non-banking/finance related work. The banking and finance industries took a HUGE hit in 08/09; consequently, the contractors employed by that industry suffered as well.

In addition, there are still a TON of California law firms, and Stanford owns California much more than Harvard owns New York City. Ergo, Stanford grads (assuming they are generally seeking work in California) could logically be better off than Harvard grads (assuming they are generally seeking work in NYC).


You are dumb. You trust the handful of random attorneys you know over the objective data of career services offices? I'm not wasting my time with you, enjoy your delusion.


Yeah I'm going to agree with you. I haven't heard any 1L, 2L, or 3L say CA markets are doing better than the East Coast ones...wtf are 0Ls talking about? The Bay Area is one of the most saturated markets right now, and if you don't plan on doing IP good luck getting into biglaw in the bay. (Not that I'm saying Stanford doesn't dominate CA, I'm sure it does fine ite, but seriously CA markets are not faring better.)

NYC was hit harder, but it's still the largest and easiest market to break into. My friends sub-median at MVP got callbacks in NYC this past OCI...while they were locked out everywhere else.

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sayan
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby sayan » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:59 pm

Also please realize that Stanford and Yale selects on a more holistic basis -- resume tidbits that may help in post-law school employment. Such students may also end up being better interviewers on average or have specialized knowledge that is relevant to their legal field of interest. Nobody after law school cares what your LSAT or UGPA is yet HLS often picks a lot of kids (more than SLS or YLS on a proportional basis) based on these factors. They also allow in a lot more minorities, without much but decent numbers for a URM (i.e., lower than normal), who may be in over their head and end up at the bottom of the class. HLS also probably attracts more power seekers who want the best jobs no matter, notwithstanding reality; these kids may all think they deserve top jobs and set their sights way too high considering their class position. They then get blown out in OCI and make it seem like HLS is failing these 2/3Ls.

But I will admit that based on firms seeking diversity among the top 3 law schools, the odds of getting into any one top firm from HLS for an average student is probably a bit lower than YLS and dependent on geography vs. SLS. Top students at all 3 schools are relatively all well off, but I contend that top top students at HLS are the best off since they get the best alumni network and lay prestige (:P).
Last edited by sayan on Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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ConMan345
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby ConMan345 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:03 pm

sayan wrote:Also please realize that Stanford and Yale selects on a more holistic basis -- resume tidbits that may help in post-law school employment. Such students may also end up being better interviewers on average or have specialized knowledge that is relevant to their legal field of interest. Nobody after law school cares what your LSAT or UGPA is yet HLS often picks a lot of kids (more than SLS or YLS on a proportional basis) based on that factor. They also allow in a lot of minorities, without much but decent numbers for a URM, who may be in over their head and end up at the bottom of the class. There's a lot of these kids and they may all think they deserve top jobs and set their sights way too high considering their class position.


I still can't get over that figure that 50% of black students are in the bottom 10% of their respective "top" schools...

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sayan
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Re: Harvard 3Ls Without Job Prospects

Postby sayan » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:06 pm

ConMan345 wrote:
sayan wrote:Also please realize that Stanford and Yale selects on a more holistic basis -- resume tidbits that may help in post-law school employment. Such students may also end up being better interviewers on average or have specialized knowledge that is relevant to their legal field of interest. Nobody after law school cares what your LSAT or UGPA is yet HLS often picks a lot of kids (more than SLS or YLS on a proportional basis) based on that factor. They also allow in a lot of minorities, without much but decent numbers for a URM, who may be in over their head and end up at the bottom of the class. There's a lot of these kids and they may all think they deserve top jobs and set their sights way too high considering their class position.


I still can't get over that figure that 50% of black students are in the bottom 10% of their respective "top" schools...


Seriously?

Well I don't know if that explains any problems at HLS. Such minority students may in fact choose jobs that are compatible with their class rank. Overall, I only can speculate... like everyone else in this thread.




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