Chicago vs. NYU

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Rand M.
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby Rand M. » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:00 pm

Just poking my head in because this is exactly the same decision I am faced with right now, and I want this thread to continue. I never get tired of specific comparisons.

prefontaine
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby prefontaine » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:03 pm

i talked to Dean Schill and he said that they are redoing PI LRAP at UofC this year, he couldn't tell me if the the cap would be changed, but did imply that he would be able to say more about it fairly soon. He also said that his goals in the upcoming years (starting next year) are increasing faculty size while maintaining class size, and expanding the amount of clinics. The class size bit was surprising to me, b/c many of the 2L/3L classes are really small (15 or less). A person who visited with me went to a class which had just five or six ppl in it.

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TheWire
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby TheWire » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:16 pm

prefontaine wrote:i talked to Dean Schill and he said that they are redoing PI LRAP at UofC this year, he couldn't tell me if the the cap would be changed, but did imply that he would be able to say more about it fairly soon. He also said that his goals in the upcoming years (starting next year) are increasing faculty size while maintaining class size, and expanding the amount of clinics. The class size bit was surprising to me, b/c many of the 2L/3L classes are really small (15 or less). A person who visited with me went to a class which had just five or six ppl in it.


this post reminded me of the clinical benefits of NYU; although, perhaps an NYU student should elaborate on this...

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TheWire
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby TheWire » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:22 pm

dbt wrote:
tintin wrote:disregarding the question of LRAP, is chicago really that much worse for PI?


Chicago is a great school. I really doubt a PI employer is going to look at a Chicago student and say "oh, no..." But, environment and resources are a big factor (connections, etc., as well as going to a school with a reputation for sending kids into PI, so if you've got a lot of alum hiring, then the pipeline is in place to hire your students for PI). At NYU, I think something like 8% do PI, whereas at Chicago it's like 2-3%. Take into account the difference in class-size (NYU is roughly twice as large as Chicago) and the fact that NYU basically has the best PI resources around (we host the PILC Fair, have a fantastic office, encourage PI through summer funding, etc.) and you get the point.

I can see someone with multiple interests (say, in PI and firm) going to Chicago maybe, but for someone solely focused on PI, this seems like a no-brainer (not even taking into account the LRAP, which favors NYU as well).


At the NYU reception last week, dean Ricky said that 14% of the class was going into PI. This may be because ITE, the benefits of the LRAP @ NYU sway lots of students into this route.

FWIW, he gave the following statistics...keep in mind this is the Dean of the school:

14% PI
25% Judicial clerkships (I would think that these are obviously not all the types of clerkships that students are gunning for)
60% Large firms
1% Business

Just reporting what I've been told

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dbt
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby dbt » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:24 pm

TheWire wrote:
dbt wrote:
tintin wrote:disregarding the question of LRAP, is chicago really that much worse for PI?


Chicago is a great school. I really doubt a PI employer is going to look at a Chicago student and say "oh, no..." But, environment and resources are a big factor (connections, etc., as well as going to a school with a reputation for sending kids into PI, so if you've got a lot of alum hiring, then the pipeline is in place to hire your students for PI). At NYU, I think something like 8% do PI, whereas at Chicago it's like 2-3%. Take into account the difference in class-size (NYU is roughly twice as large as Chicago) and the fact that NYU basically has the best PI resources around (we host the PILC Fair, have a fantastic office, encourage PI through summer funding, etc.) and you get the point.

I can see someone with multiple interests (say, in PI and firm) going to Chicago maybe, but for someone solely focused on PI, this seems like a no-brainer (not even taking into account the LRAP, which favors NYU as well).


At the NYU reception last week, dean Ricky said that 14% of the class was going into PI. This may be because ITE, the benefits of the LRAP @ NYU sway lots of students into this route.

FWIW, he gave the following statistics...keep in mind this is the Dean of the school:

14% PI
25% Judicial clerkships (I would think that these are obviously not all the types of clerkships that students are gunning for)
60% Large firms
1% Business

Just reporting what I've been told


That makes sense. The 8% I got was from the latest stuff on LSAC. 60% at firms is a bit disheartening though...hoping a lot of those clerkship slots are for relatively desirable spots.

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RVP11
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby RVP11 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:24 pm

Not a single person going to a firm that's not a "big firm?"

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TheWire
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby TheWire » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:25 pm

dbt wrote:
TheWire wrote:
dbt wrote:
tintin wrote:disregarding the question of LRAP, is chicago really that much worse for PI?


Chicago is a great school. I really doubt a PI employer is going to look at a Chicago student and say "oh, no..." But, environment and resources are a big factor (connections, etc., as well as going to a school with a reputation for sending kids into PI, so if you've got a lot of alum hiring, then the pipeline is in place to hire your students for PI). At NYU, I think something like 8% do PI, whereas at Chicago it's like 2-3%. Take into account the difference in class-size (NYU is roughly twice as large as Chicago) and the fact that NYU basically has the best PI resources around (we host the PILC Fair, have a fantastic office, encourage PI through summer funding, etc.) and you get the point.

I can see someone with multiple interests (say, in PI and firm) going to Chicago maybe, but for someone solely focused on PI, this seems like a no-brainer (not even taking into account the LRAP, which favors NYU as well).


At the NYU reception last week, dean Ricky said that 14% of the class was going into PI. This may be because ITE, the benefits of the LRAP @ NYU sway lots of students into this route.

FWIW, he gave the following statistics...keep in mind this is the Dean of the school:

14% PI
25% Judicial clerkships (I would think that these are obviously not all the types of clerkships that students are gunning for)
60% Large firms
1% Business

Just reporting what I've been told


That makes sense. The 8% I got was from the latest stuff on LSAC. 60% at firms is a bit disheartening though...hoping a lot of those clerkship slots are for relatively desirable spots.


he insinuated that some of the students that got deferred went this route...

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TheWire
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby TheWire » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:25 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:Not a single person going to a firm that's not a "big firm?"


Like I said, I'm just relaying the information he provided for us...he made a point of saying Large Firm

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adameus
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby adameus » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:38 pm

TheWire wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:Not a single person going to a firm that's not a "big firm?"


Like I said, I'm just relaying the information he provided for us...he made a point of saying Large Firm



This is proof that everyone at NYU is either a PI wannabee or a major gunner, hence go to chicago, people are too nerdy there to be gunners.

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crackberry
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby crackberry » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:44 pm

crackberry wrote:I have a good friend making this choice. Which school is gonna be better for NorCal BigLaw (seriously)?

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Hiei
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby Hiei » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:46 pm

If you want to work anywhere other than NYC go to Chicago, if you aren't sure go to Chicago. If you are interested in public interest jobs go to NYU because of their LRAP. If you want to work in NYC go to whichever school is cheaper.

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adameus
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby adameus » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:52 pm

crackberry wrote:
crackberry wrote:I have a good friend making this choice. Which school is gonna be better for NorCal BigLaw (seriously)?



I am no expert in this type of thing, but I think there wouldn't be a huge advantage to either schoool. Chicago has the smaller class size but NYU is in NYC and hence more connected to Big Law. In this case it makes sense to go to school where you think you would enjoy the program and in the city where you are interested in living for 3 years.

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Hiei
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby Hiei » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:55 pm

adameus wrote:
crackberry wrote:
crackberry wrote:I have a good friend making this choice. Which school is gonna be better for NorCal BigLaw (seriously)?



I am no expert in this type of thing, but I think there wouldn't be a huge advantage to either schoool. Chicago has the smaller class size but NYU is in NYC and hence more connected to Big Law. In this case it makes sense to go to school where you think you would enjoy the program and in the city where you are interested in living for 3 years.



If you don't want to work in NYC and you are picking between NYU and CLS/Chicago (and barring any substantial scholarship differences or personal reasons) it makes more sense to go to CLS/Chicago. NYU's reputation is noticeably stronger in NYC than it is elsewhere. CLS/Chicago have stronger out of NYC reputations than NYU. Outside of NYC NYU's rep is on par with Boalt, Michigan, UVA, and Penn.

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crackberry
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby crackberry » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:56 pm

Hiei wrote:
adameus wrote:
crackberry wrote:
crackberry wrote:I have a good friend making this choice. Which school is gonna be better for NorCal BigLaw (seriously)?



I am no expert in this type of thing, but I think there wouldn't be a huge advantage to either schoool. Chicago has the smaller class size but NYU is in NYC and hence more connected to Big Law. In this case it makes sense to go to school where you think you would enjoy the program and in the city where you are interested in living for 3 years.



If you don't want to work in NYC and you are picking between NYU and CLS/Chicago (and barring any substantial scholarship differences or personal reasons) it makes more sense to go to CLS/Chicago. NYU's reputation is noticeably stronger in NYC than it is elsewhere. CLS/Chicago have stronger out of NYC reputations than NYU. Outside of NYC NYU's rep is on par with Boalt, Michigan, UVA, and Penn.

Kurama's back!!

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adameus
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby adameus » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:58 pm

Hiei wrote:
adameus wrote:
crackberry wrote:
crackberry wrote:I have a good friend making this choice. Which school is gonna be better for NorCal BigLaw (seriously)?



I am no expert in this type of thing, but I think there wouldn't be a huge advantage to either schoool. Chicago has the smaller class size but NYU is in NYC and hence more connected to Big Law. In this case it makes sense to go to school where you think you would enjoy the program and in the city where you are interested in living for 3 years.



If you don't want to work in NYC and you are picking between NYU and CLS/Chicago (and barring any substantial scholarship differences or personal reasons) it makes more sense to go to CLS/Chicago. NYU's reputation is noticeably stronger in NYC than it is elsewhere. CLS/Chicago have stronger out of NYC reputations than NYU. Outside of NYC NYU's rep is on par with Boalt, Michigan, UVA, and Penn.


where are you coming up with these rankings of reputation? I'm not saying they aren't true, but you could just as easily be making this shit up.

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dbt
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby dbt » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:58 pm

Kurama's back!!


I wonder why he got rid of his old s/n and keeps making new ones. Or else his worldview is gaining followers :shock:

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Hiei
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby Hiei » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:00 pm

where are you coming up with these rankings of reputation? I'm not saying they aren't true, but you could just as easily be making this shit up.


Well you can look at the latest NLJ 250 numbers, lawyer judge assessment scores (NYU has never equaled Chicago or CLS in rep scores, CLS and Chicago's lowest ever rep scores are the same as NYU's highest ever scores. NYU has also never had higher lawyer/judge rep scores than Michigan or UVA, and has had a lower lawyer/rep score than UVA for every yeare except one in the last 8 years), and check out elite firms outside of NYC. There is definitely a difference between Chicago/CLS to NYU when you look at the out of NYC firms. You're going to have people say that it isn't signicant and that it doesn't matter, but then those same people will turn around and say that the gap between NYU and say Boalt or Michigan is very real and legit because NYC is the best market.
Last edited by Hiei on Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Rand M.
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby Rand M. » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:02 pm

adameus wrote:
Hiei wrote:
adameus wrote:I am no expert in this type of thing, but I think there wouldn't be a huge advantage to either schoool. Chicago has the smaller class size but NYU is in NYC and hence more connected to Big Law. In this case it makes sense to go to school where you think you would enjoy the program and in the city where you are interested in living for 3 years.



If you don't want to work in NYC and you are picking between NYU and CLS/Chicago (and barring any substantial scholarship differences or personal reasons) it makes more sense to go to CLS/Chicago. NYU's reputation is noticeably stronger in NYC than it is elsewhere. CLS/Chicago have stronger out of NYC reputations than NYU. Outside of NYC NYU's rep is on par with Boalt, Michigan, UVA, and Penn.


where are you coming up with these rankings of reputation? I'm not saying they aren't true, but you could just as easily be making this shit up.


Its part of US News Rankings.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83424


EDIT: This is the best visual representation I have found. As you can see C and C are on another level when compared to N in this regard.
Last edited by Rand M. on Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tintin
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby tintin » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:04 pm

dbt wrote:
tintin wrote:disregarding the question of LRAP, is chicago really that much worse for PI?


Chicago is a great school. I really doubt a PI employer is going to look at a Chicago student and say "oh, no..." But, environment and resources are a big factor (connections, etc., as well as going to a school with a reputation for sending kids into PI, so if you've got a lot of alum hiring, then the pipeline is in place to hire your students for PI). At NYU, I think something like 8% do PI, whereas at Chicago it's like 2-3%. Take into account the difference in class-size (NYU is roughly twice as large as Chicago) and the fact that NYU basically has the best PI resources around (we host the PILC Fair, have a fantastic office, encourage PI through summer funding, etc.) and you get the point.

I can see someone with multiple interests (say, in PI and firm) going to Chicago maybe, but for someone solely focused on PI, this seems like a no-brainer (not even taking into account the LRAP, which favors NYU as well).


you make a good point. I'm interested in PI/gov/academia- which I guess would make NYU the smartest choice since they seem to be gaining in academia lately. someone about NYC just really puts me off though. and I want to work on the west coast most likely.

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dbt
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby dbt » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:07 pm

tintin wrote:
dbt wrote:
tintin wrote:disregarding the question of LRAP, is chicago really that much worse for PI?


Chicago is a great school. I really doubt a PI employer is going to look at a Chicago student and say "oh, no..." But, environment and resources are a big factor (connections, etc., as well as going to a school with a reputation for sending kids into PI, so if you've got a lot of alum hiring, then the pipeline is in place to hire your students for PI). At NYU, I think something like 8% do PI, whereas at Chicago it's like 2-3%. Take into account the difference in class-size (NYU is roughly twice as large as Chicago) and the fact that NYU basically has the best PI resources around (we host the PILC Fair, have a fantastic office, encourage PI through summer funding, etc.) and you get the point.

I can see someone with multiple interests (say, in PI and firm) going to Chicago maybe, but for someone solely focused on PI, this seems like a no-brainer (not even taking into account the LRAP, which favors NYU as well).


you make a good point. I'm interested in PI/gov/academia- which I guess would make NYU the smartest choice since they seem to be gaining in academia lately. someone about NYC just really puts me off though. and I want to work on the west coast most likely.


if you're interested in academia, NYU isn't even a competitor to Chicago (this is unfortunate for me, since I've become interested in academia since matriculating). if you're not sure which you want most, and you don't like NYC, go to Chicago. as for working on the west coast, i don't think Chicago/NYU is going to matter for that one (this will vary depending on the field you want - firms, Chicago slight advantage, PI - NYU advantage, gov't - i dunno, the same?)

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Hiei
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby Hiei » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:08 pm

Rand M. wrote:
adameus wrote:
Hiei wrote:
adameus wrote:I am no expert in this type of thing, but I think there wouldn't be a huge advantage to either schoool. Chicago has the smaller class size but NYU is in NYC and hence more connected to Big Law. In this case it makes sense to go to school where you think you would enjoy the program and in the city where you are interested in living for 3 years.



If you don't want to work in NYC and you are picking between NYU and CLS/Chicago (and barring any substantial scholarship differences or personal reasons) it makes more sense to go to CLS/Chicago. NYU's reputation is noticeably stronger in NYC than it is elsewhere. CLS/Chicago have stronger out of NYC reputations than NYU. Outside of NYC NYU's rep is on par with Boalt, Michigan, UVA, and Penn.


where are you coming up with these rankings of reputation? I'm not saying they aren't true, but you could just as easily be making this shit up.


Its part of US News Rankings.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83424


EDIT: This is the best visual representation I have found. As you can see C and C are on another level when compared to N in this regard.



http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

This is a good represenationa as well. Do keep in mind though that Chicago being stronger doesn't mean that if you do poorly or average at Chicago and that if you do well at NYU Chicago will do you better. It just means that on average and fopr equal performances Chicago is going to be a bit better.
Last edited by Hiei on Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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crackberry
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby crackberry » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:09 pm

I'm actually pretty sure Hiei is a Kurama alt (I think he was banned, which would explain why he has to keep making new sns). He uses the same arguments, etc.

ranovr32
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby ranovr32 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:11 pm

Chicago......

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adameus
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby adameus » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:12 pm

crackberry wrote:I'm actually pretty sure Hiei is a Kurama alt (I think he was banned, which would explain why he has to keep making new sns). He uses the same arguments, etc.


Is Hiei a Chicago troll? Personally I'd take a 1 tenth loss in reputation rakings and live in Manhattan vs. living in Hyde Park.

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dbt
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Re: Chicago vs. NYU

Postby dbt » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:13 pm

crackberry wrote:I'm actually pretty sure Hiei is a Kurama alt (I think he was banned, which would explain why he has to keep making new sns). He uses the same arguments, etc.


well if it is a Kurama alt i appreciate the shift in assertiveness. the new Kurama is no longer blatantly bashing NYU based on his authoritative 0L knowledge.




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