Serious Question about "regional schools" (I dont know much.

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ilovefishing
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Serious Question about "regional schools" (I dont know much.

Postby ilovefishing » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:34 am

Hello everyone,

Hope you are all having a great day.

Most schools that are below T14 are considered regional right?

Im from Salem, OR. And I am thinking of going to either drexel, rutgers, or temple. I am pretty sure all of those are regional schools, so my question is if I were to work in the Philly area for a few years, what would my chances be of transfering back over to Oregon or the west coast after a few years of work?

Also, would I be able to secure a high paying job over here on the west coast, or would I probably have to stay in the Philly area to keep a high paying job?
And by high paying like (hopefully 100k+?)

Thanks for all the help.

Also, what does TTT stand for?
Last edited by ilovefishing on Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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thedogship
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby thedogship » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:37 am

Image

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bees
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby bees » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:38 am

Just in case you are serious:

You would most likely have to start your career in the same region as your school. But for your second job, your first job is much more important than where you earned your JD. The pay on the west coast would depend at least in some part on what sort of pay you got in your original job, but this is looking a little far into the future it seems.

TTT stands for Drexel, Rutgers, and Temple. None of which will land you a 100k+ job.

icydash
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby icydash » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:40 am

Those schools are definitely regional schools. Most people on the west coast will not be familiar with them or their quality.... so it will be hard to get a job out there unless you start in a firm (in new jersey/PA/etc) that also has a west coast branch and they transfer you.

TTT = third tier toilet

ilovefishing
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby ilovefishing » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:42 am

So chances are, if I go to school in Philly im stuck in Philly area for quite sometime?

And looking at the median salary, temple was 115k for private and rutgers 110k?

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thedogship
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby thedogship » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:51 am

ilovefishing wrote:
And looking at the median salary, temple was 115k for private and rutgers 110k?


ok, now you've gone too far. I'd give you a golf clap if it weren't so transparent.

icydash
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby icydash » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:50 am

ilovefishing wrote:So chances are, if I go to school in Philly im stuck in Philly area for quite sometime?

And looking at the median salary, temple was 115k for private and rutgers 110k?


I wouldn't go by those figures, they aren't very accurate.

Also, to get these salaries, you have to have the job first. Most people are having a tough time getting jobs coming out of Harvard with this economy, much less temple...

And yes, generally if you go to a regional school, it is in your best interests to practice in that region. If you don't want to practice there for a significant time period, I'd look more towards schools within a region in which you plan to practice.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:49 pm

icydash wrote:
ilovefishing wrote:So chances are, if I go to school in Philly im stuck in Philly area for quite sometime?

And looking at the median salary, temple was 115k for private and rutgers 110k?


I wouldn't go by those figures, they aren't very accurate.

Also, to get these salaries, you have to have the job first. Most people are having a tough time getting jobs coming out of Harvard with this economy, much less temple...

And yes, generally if you go to a regional school, it is in your best interests to practice in that region. If you don't want to practice there for a significant time period, I'd look more towards schools within a region in which you plan to practice.



Wow, wow, wow now.

Since when are most people coming out of Harvard having a tough time getting jobs?

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jcl2
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby jcl2 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:57 pm

If you are not a flame and this is serious, go to Lewis and Clark, Seattle, or Oregon. If you have numbers appropriate for the schools you mentioned, you should probably get into at least one of these schools as well. Not only are those schools in the region you want to work in, but they are better respected in their region than Drexel, Temple, and Rutgers are in theirs.

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thedogship
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby thedogship » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:30 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:
icydash wrote:
ilovefishing wrote:So chances are, if I go to school in Philly im stuck in Philly area for quite sometime?

And looking at the median salary, temple was 115k for private and rutgers 110k?


I wouldn't go by those figures, they aren't very accurate.

Also, to get these salaries, you have to have the job first. Most people are having a tough time getting jobs coming out of Harvard with this economy, much less temple...

And yes, generally if you go to a regional school, it is in your best interests to practice in that region. If you don't want to practice there for a significant time period, I'd look more towards schools within a region in which you plan to practice.



Wow, wow, wow now.

Since when are most people coming out of Harvard having a tough time getting jobs?


--LinkRemoved--

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:11 pm

I think that the thing that outweighs the "Crimson H" for that person is being a massive, massive douchebag.

icydash
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby icydash » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:55 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:
icydash wrote:
ilovefishing wrote:So chances are, if I go to school in Philly im stuck in Philly area for quite sometime?

And looking at the median salary, temple was 115k for private and rutgers 110k?


I wouldn't go by those figures, they aren't very accurate.

Also, to get these salaries, you have to have the job first. Most people are having a tough time getting jobs coming out of Harvard with this economy, much less temple...

And yes, generally if you go to a regional school, it is in your best interests to practice in that region. If you don't want to practice there for a significant time period, I'd look more towards schools within a region in which you plan to practice.



Wow, wow, wow now.

Since when are most people coming out of Harvard having a tough time getting jobs?

Also, on top of what a previous poster wrote, there is an entire TLS post on this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=109675

...but I'm not going to read it...and just assume it proves my point....it's too long :D :D

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thelawguy777
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby thelawguy777 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:25 pm

icydash wrote:
Great Satchmo wrote:
icydash wrote:
ilovefishing wrote:So chances are, if I go to school in Philly im stuck in Philly area for quite sometime?

And looking at the median salary, temple was 115k for private and rutgers 110k?


I wouldn't go by those figures, they aren't very accurate.

Also, to get these salaries, you have to have the job first. Most people are having a tough time getting jobs coming out of Harvard with this economy, much less temple...

And yes, generally if you go to a regional school, it is in your best interests to practice in that region. If you don't want to practice there for a significant time period, I'd look more towards schools within a region in which you plan to practice.



Wow, wow, wow now.

Since when are most people coming out of Harvard having a tough time getting jobs?

Also, on top of what a previous poster wrote, there is an entire TLS post on this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=109675

...but I'm not going to read it...and just assume it proves my point....it's too long :D :D


Yea, it doesn't prove your point at all. "Most" Harvard grads are sill getting jobs.

It completely blows my mind to think that out of our nation's 200 law schools, the #2 ranked law-school is producing a majority of unemployed graduates.

icydash
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby icydash » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:05 am

thelawguy777 wrote:Yea, it doesn't prove your point at all. "Most" Harvard grads are sill getting jobs.

It completely blows my mind to think that out of our nation's 200 law schools, the #2 ranked law-school is producing a majority of unemployed graduates.


It may or may not blow your mind... but that doesn't provide any evidence to back up what you're saying. The economy is shit, and a lot of things that "blow my mind" have happened recently.

And for arguments sake, I never said they were producing a majority of unemploted graduates--my original post said "most grads are having a tough time getting jobs." Just because they eventually got jobs doesn't mean it wasn't harder/tougher than usual for them. If you're going to be nitpicking about my original post (the nitpicking really serves no purpose to answering the OPs question), then so am I.

This is an example of getting completely and utterly off topic to the OPs original question. The point was coming out of temple you're going to have a tough time...which is still true regardless of this "most/many/whatever" nitpicking going on.

ilovefishing
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby ilovefishing » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:59 am

Ok, first of all, I am being serious.

Sure I dont know much about this stuff, thats why Im asking here.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/temple-law-school.html

Says "The class of 2007 had a ninety-two percent placement rate and the median private sector starting salary was $115,000. "

http://www.top-law-schools.com/rutgers-law-camden.html

"Median private sector starting salary: $110,000 (Class of 2007, 51% reporting)"

So are these figures completely off or what?

What kind of starting salary should I be expecting out of these schools then?

Thanks for any help. Please, im not a flamer or troll. I honestly dont know much about this at all.

As for the person suggesting L&C and Oregon, I do have the numbers to get in, but I didnt apply. I applied to Willamette and got in there, but its a tier 4. I have been accepted at drexel and rutgers, and should be at temple, hopefully.

D,R, and T would all be better choices looking at salary figures than willamette right?

ilovefishing
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby ilovefishing » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:08 am

--LinkRemoved--

reports 112,854 as the average for the private practice of 2008?

Are these figures that far off?

Fark-o-vision
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Re: Question about "regional schools"

Postby Fark-o-vision » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:15 am

I don't quite understand all of this either. It seems like the general consensus on here is that those numbers weren't particularly accurate before the economic shift, and certainly aren't now. It has to do with schools being self-selective in who they interview after graduation, some kind of "out" for those students who go back to school for a different degree, etc. I don't know why TLS even posts the numbers in the law school profiles if they're more misleading than helpful, but I guess that's another issue.

The reality is, no one can gauge exactly what is going on. You'll read a lot of contradictory things on here, which doesn't mean people don't know what they're talking about, but that information is just less reliable. More than ever it seems like you just kind of have to suck it up, ask yourself what you're willing to pay, and go to a school where you want to live.

icydash
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Re: Serious Question about "regional schools" (I dont know much.

Postby icydash » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:19 am

Herein lies your problem: "Median private sector starting salary: $110,000 (Class of 2007, 51% reporting)"

Re-read that a few times.

First of all, it's from 2007, which is before the economy tanked. Given that this past year, summer associate positions hit a 17 year low (see: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202445366576), you can imagine how the economy has caused the process of getting jobs to drastically change. It's MUCH MUCH harder now than it was in 2007.

Now, looking at the next part, you see only 51% of students reported. Most people tend to report in when they are doing well (making a higher than average salary, have a job, etc). Not to mention, even if the results are not skewed for this reason, the mere fact that 49% of the class didn't report in should concern you.

I feel like I'm answer a LSAT LR question with this one haha.

And just to quote what I said earlier:
icydash wrote:Also, to get these salaries, you have to have the job first. Most people are having a tough time getting jobs coming out of Harvard with this economy, much less temple...

ilovefishing
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Re: Serious Question about "regional schools" (I dont know much.

Postby ilovefishing » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:25 am

I realize that it is only 51% reporting. But lets just say that 51% is probably the top half of the class.

So if the top half of the class reports a median of 110k salary, that means if I am atleast in the top 25% I should atleast make the 110k...

Is this really that unbelievable?

What kind of figures do you guys think that rutgers/temple grads truly get then? atleast 75k? 85k?

Like I said, I dont know much about this and am just trying to learn.

Thanks

icydash
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Re: Serious Question about "regional schools" (I dont know much.

Postby icydash » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:32 am

ilovefishing wrote:I realize that it is only 51% reporting. But lets just say that 51% is probably the top half of the class.

So if the top half of the class reports a median of 110k salary, that means if I am atleast in the top 25% I should atleast make the 110k...

Is this really that unbelievable?

What kind of figures do you guys think that rutgers/temple grads truly get then? atleast 75k? 85k?

Like I said, I dont know much about this and am just trying to learn.

Thanks


Even if what you're saying is true, it's from 3 years ago. There is a HUGE shortage of jobs and lots of much more qualified individuals competing for them; probably more so then ever before. Again, you're making the HUGE assumption that you even get a job. The truth is, rutgers is in New Jersey...which means the legal market you'll probably be working in is New York City. In NYC, you've got Columbia, Cardozo, NYU, Cornell, Fordham, and Brooklyn, and a lot of Harvard as your competition. That's not even taking into account the other tier 2 and tier 3 schools that matriculate into that area like Albany Law, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Hofstra, Pace, etc etc etc....

The point is, at this current stage in the game, there is so much competition for such few legal jobs (with much of the competition coming from significantly better schools than you), that you're more than likely not to get a job after graduation. And since Rutgers is a HEAVY regional school, if you came out of there and tried to go to some other legal market in like Boston or Atlanta, etc, your degree would be reasonably worthless.

In my experience, too, most of the Rutgers grads I know make between 75k and 90k. I don't know any Temple grads.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Serious Question about "regional schools" (I dont know much.

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:49 pm

ALso, that's only 51% of private practice. Only 40% of total went into private practice. So half of 50% go that salary. So only 20% made that 110k +. Furthermore, they are using 2007 data, when they already have 2008 data, so we can assume that the 2008 data is much worse... just throwing it out there, maybe half, so maybe 10% got that kind of salary in 2008? See how the truthy lies work?

Don't feel bad, this kind of thing misguided me at the start. I thought I would be filthy rich coming out of LS =)

icydash
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Re: Serious Question about "regional schools" (I dont know much.

Postby icydash » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:15 pm

Nicholasnickynic wrote:ALso, that's only 51% of private practice. Only 40% of total went into private practice. So half of 50% go that salary. So only 20% made that 110k +. Furthermore, they are using 2007 data, when they already have 2008 data, so we can assume that the 2008 data is much worse... just throwing it out there, maybe half, so maybe 10% got that kind of salary in 2008? See how the truthy lies work?

Don't feel bad, this kind of thing misguided me at the start. I thought I would be filthy rich coming out of LS =)


+1. Yes.

Point is, I wouldn't choose a school based on those numbers. The numbers are heavily altered/played with, not current, and not a true representation of what you can expect.

steph404
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Re: Serious Question about "regional schools" (I dont know much.

Postby steph404 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:17 pm

Check the reciprocity rules for Oregon before you make a decision. I think they have limited reciprocity with other states in the region. If you started your career on the east coast and took the PA/NY or other bar, you'd have to take another bar exam to practice back in the Pac NW. Multiple bar exams are not fun.




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