What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

average of Yale versus top of Columbia

Yale, middle of the pack
12
36%
Columbia. top 10% and law review
21
64%
 
Total votes: 33

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dbt
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby dbt » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:34 pm

I dunno...I don't go to Yale. :cry: :oops: :x

However, if Yale is not so supreme that there are some sort of "cutoffs" that firms/clerkships have in general regarding grades (or that OCS distributes as "suggestions") then that should be enough to suggest that a median student at Yale won't have access to (or, realistically - maybe he can get the interview, but still) the same stuff that top 10% at CLS will have.

Add to that the fact that if you're median at YLS, that means there are nearly 100 kids at your school that did better than you, and my bet is they're competing for the same stuff as top 10% at CLS.

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Unemployed
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby Unemployed » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:35 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
Unemployed wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
Unemployed wrote:Interesting theory.

OS! +1 on the brief.


I could set up a study, if you could get your classmates to participate. Do we know median Yale students?

If I had a choice right now between finishing writing this and donating a kidney without anesthesia, guess which one I'd pick?


<----- qualifies.

I know plenty of median Yale students. Like 10 of them.


Congratulations! Will you prove the validity of our assertions by staying, and continuing to kick serious ass at CLS?


Only if you transfer here.

As for the brief, keep in mind:

--LinkRemoved--

imchuckbass58
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:35 pm

legends159 wrote:
and what does 50% at Yale even mean? There is no rank, there are no caps on how many H's they give out, how would you even know you're 50% at Yale. What distinguishes one yalie from another might end up being their students notes or other publications since it's difficult to compare H's and P's across different classes.


According to a friend at Yale, for clerkships, top firms, etc., they generally know what a "good" ration of Hs to Ps is and what a "bad" ratio is. It's true that it differes across classes, but after you have enough grades it regresses towards a ratio that remain pretty constant year-to-year. There are no official statistics, but my friend at Yale knew more or less where he stood (at least bottom third, middle third, top third) based on his ratio.

But yes, agree that the notion of "median" matter a lot less at Yale for various reasons.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:36 pm

Borhas wrote:The study you are talking about and the study others are hoping you are talking about are probably not the same thing.

hth


I never said I volunteered to be the test subject, though if any of the volunteers looked appealing, I would know they were pre-screened to an acceptable standard. :D

Renaixença
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby Renaixença » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:37 pm

sure, "Editor, Law Review" looks cute on your C.V., but I'd rather have "Universitatis Yalensis" on that paper hanging in my office.

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Reedie
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby Reedie » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:38 pm

This thread is almost a satire of how silly TLS can get.

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Borhas
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby Borhas » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:40 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
Borhas wrote:The study you are talking about and the study others are hoping you are talking about are probably not the same thing.

hth


I never said I volunteered to be the test subject, though if any of the volunteers looked appealing, I would know they were pre-screened to an acceptable standard. :D


getting people's hopes up like that...

I have it on good intuition that both categories preclude looking "appealing"

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dbt
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby dbt » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:42 pm

Reedie wrote:This thread is almost a satire of how silly TLS can get.


I predict it will reach 14 pages.

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Dignan
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby Dignan » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:44 pm

IvyHater wrote:I was wondering what you all think: is it better to be top 10% and, say, on law review at a great school like Columbia. Or is it better to be an average or below average student at Yale (for example, middle of the road, all passes and no honors, no journals).

Obviously, the same person would not likely do so well at Columbia and so poorly at Yale, but please assume for the sake of my question that the persons ability is the same and they will perform similarly when they leave their schools and begin work.

Which is better for firms, clerkships, and academia?

Is the Columbia student better off for all?

As others have noted, there's really no such thing as a "50%" at Yale. But I think it's fair to say that a student who finishes in the top 10% at CLS will have more opportunities--in all the areas you mention--than will a student who does not distinguish themselves at YLS.

YLS students, of course, get lots of opportunities to distinguish themselves. But they have to exploit the opportunities. If a YLS student did not work hard to form relationships with faculty, did not do law review, and did not publish anything, then that student is going to struggle to compete with a top-10% CLS grad. That's my guess, anyway.

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Unemployed
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby Unemployed » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:48 pm

Reedie wrote:This thread is almost a satire of how silly TLS can get.


I was about to yell at you (something along the lines of "you try writing an appellate brief for the first time and see if you don't lose your mind, 0L!"), and then I saw that you were a PhD candidate. Here's to real academia. [Hats off]

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OperaSoprano
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:03 pm

Unemployed wrote:Only if you transfer here.

As for the brief, keep in mind:

--LinkRemoved--


I promise to come for the parties!

Re: brief: if that happens to me, will you and your classmates please kill me? I won't have enough will to do it myself.

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RVP11
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby RVP11 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:05 pm

Unemployed wrote:I get the point about OCI, but isn't clerkship hiring done during 3L? Two of them are district court clerks right now, and also have COA spots waiting for them next year.


I admit I don't know much about clerkship hiring ITE. TTT-LS should be summoned.

What raised my eyebrow was top 10% at GULC = V10 firm job. Definitely not ITE. Even at UVA, I'd guess that top 10% is only going to guarantee you maybe V20/V25, and even then I'm using "guarantee" loosely.

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underachiever
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby underachiever » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:13 pm

Yale

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98234872348
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby 98234872348 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:15 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
Unemployed wrote:I get the point about OCI, but isn't clerkship hiring done during 3L? Two of them are district court clerks right now, and also have COA spots waiting for them next year.


I admit I don't know much about clerkship hiring ITE. TTT-LS should be summoned.

What raised my eyebrow was top 10% at GULC = V10 firm job. Definitely not ITE. Even at UVA, I'd guess that top 10% is only going to guarantee you maybe V20/V25, and even then I'm using "guarantee" loosely.

+1 to the latter point. Nothing is guaranteed ITE.

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englawyer
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby englawyer » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:25 pm

for firm jobs, one way to look at it might be that 50% of Yale is going to clerkships/academia, so the person at Median is actually #1 of the class that is "settling" for BigLaw

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Reedie
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby Reedie » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:27 pm

Unemployed wrote:
Reedie wrote:This thread is almost a satire of how silly TLS can get.


I was about to yell at you (something along the lines of "you try writing an appellate brief for the first time and see if you don't lose your mind, 0L!"), and then I saw that you were a PhD candidate. Here's to real academia. [Hats off]


Lol, it's not the writing so much as the absurdity of the setup. I mean, people need to chill just a little on the constant measurement! I'd also say with academia, grades themselves aren't going to say enough. My cousin just graduated from Berkeley and is trying to get into that field, and what you really need is a good approach, solid research and writing and publications.

Thanks anyway and good luck with your writing.

umichgrad
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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby umichgrad » Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:59 am

absurd that OP thinks that getting into yale entitles him/her to top 10% at cls.

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Re: What's better: top 10% at Columbia or 50% at Yale?

Postby IvyHater » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:04 am

umichgrad wrote:absurd that OP thinks that getting into yale entitles him/her to top 10% at cls.


I don't think that. In fact, I wrote: "Obviously, the same person would not likely do so well at Columbia and so poorly at Yale, but please assume for the sake of my question that the persons ability is the same and they will perform similarly when they leave their schools and begin work."

I added a poll to see if a consensus builds.

If the Yale grad publishes a note or two, since their systems is set up to encourage it, but the Columbia grad has more stellar grades, does this change things for people? I am guessing no for firms, but perhaps for clerkships and academia.

Also, what if the Yale grad has more markers of success going in? Say, prior publications in a different field or a more fancy undergrad degree? Will this change the calculus?




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