Choose between USC, WUSTL, Emory, UIUC, and W&M

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which would you choose (not based on COA or scholarship)?

W&M
10
7%
USC
70
48%
WUSTL
39
27%
Emory
17
12%
UIUC
11
7%
 
Total votes: 147

musicfor18
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Choose between USC, WUSTL, Emory, UIUC, and W&M

Postby musicfor18 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:21 pm

If you had to choose between enrolling at USC, WUSTL, Emory, Illinois, or at William and Mary, taking into consideration quality and job placement only (not scholarship money or weather), which would you choose?

If you'd like to share your reasoning in a reply to the thread, that would be appreciated as well!
Last edited by musicfor18 on Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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danidancer
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby danidancer » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:11 pm

If money isn't an issue, I vote USC, if only for the weather. :D

Flanker1067
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby Flanker1067 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:14 pm

I don't know too much about the others, but in the recent placement stats (NLJ250 placement for class '09), USC did very well.

Add: Of course there is slightly more to it (i.e. quality of placement and other opportunities) but USC did far better then even UCLA and UT in those stats.

sluguy14
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby sluguy14 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:16 pm

danidancer wrote:If money isn't an issue, I vote USC, if only for the weather. :D


I agree, that would be tough to turn down. But really it depends on where you want to work: USC for west coast, WUSTL for midwest, W&M for east coast. All three of these are great schools that place strongly into their respective regions.

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Dostoevsky
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby Dostoevsky » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:19 pm

I didn't apply to WUSTL, but I did get into the other two. Good question. I'm leaning towards USC having never been to Virginia. While the honor code at W&M sounds amazing, I have enjoyed living in California for the last 7 years.

musicfor18
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby musicfor18 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Dostoevsky wrote:I didn't apply to WUSTL, but I did get into the other two. Good question. I'm leaning towards USC having never been to Virginia, but have lived in California for 7 years.


What makes you lean toward USC, other than your familiarity with California?

musicfor18
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby musicfor18 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:06 pm

WUSTL is gaining on USC!

amped
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby amped » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:00 pm

1) Stop listening to all the 0L's on here.

2) This decision solely depends on what area of the country you want to be in after graduation.

West coast = USC
Midwest = WUSTL
East coast = W&M

None of these schools really have enough a national reputation to override the networking opportunities that come with being in the area in which you want to work. I also believe your job opportunities will depend more on your performance and networking ability than the reputation of the school (when it comes to these three...they all have very good reputations). Also, if you want to be in the west coast, for example, it will be hard for firms to take you seriously if you go to W&M unless you were born and raised in LA.

musicfor18
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby musicfor18 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:06 pm

amped wrote:1) Stop listening to all the 0L's on here.

2) This decision solely depends on what area of the country you want to be in after graduation.

West coast = USC
Midwest = WUSTL
East coast = W&M

None of these schools really have enough a national reputation to override the networking opportunities that come with being in the area in which you want to work. I also believe your job opportunities will depend more on your performance and networking ability than the reputation of the school (when it comes to these three...they all have very good reputations). Also, if you want to be in the west coast, for example, it will be hard for firms to take you seriously if you go to W&M unless you were born and raised in LA.


Ok, good point, of course. Let's assume that I'm equally interested in East Coast or West Coast employment. What I'm looking for are the best job prospects within either of these markets.

amped
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby amped » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:11 pm

musicfor18 wrote:
amped wrote:1) Stop listening to all the 0L's on here.

2) This decision solely depends on what area of the country you want to be in after graduation.

West coast = USC
Midwest = WUSTL
East coast = W&M

None of these schools really have enough a national reputation to override the networking opportunities that come with being in the area in which you want to work. I also believe your job opportunities will depend more on your performance and networking ability than the reputation of the school (when it comes to these three...they all have very good reputations). Also, if you want to be in the west coast, for example, it will be hard for firms to take you seriously if you go to W&M unless you were born and raised in LA.


Ok, good point, of course. Let's assume that I'm equally interested in East Coast or West Coast employment. What I'm looking for are the best job prospects within either of these markets.


Where are you from and where did you go to college?

I'd lean towards USC by a little, but really these schools are regional. You will find some USC grads on the east coast, but they are either top 10%ers or had substantial connections. Same goes for W&M on the west coast. And I'm tired of all this "assuming X" stuff you 0L's do...stop assuming and make decisions based on your circumstances. You will regret basing your decision solely on rankings and what posters on TLS say. Also, you've got to realize it's hard to up and plant yourself in another part of the country (except for maybe NYC, they can't fathom why people wouldn't want to be there). If you have lived on the west coast all your life, gone to school there, and then you go to Virginia for LS you will have a relatively difficult time convincing employers you want to stay. You need to take advantage of the circumstances you have...if you have lots of connections to the west coast, then exploit them.

musicfor18
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby musicfor18 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:20 pm

amped wrote:
musicfor18 wrote:
amped wrote:1) Stop listening to all the 0L's on here.

2) This decision solely depends on what area of the country you want to be in after graduation.

West coast = USC
Midwest = WUSTL
East coast = W&M

None of these schools really have enough a national reputation to override the networking opportunities that come with being in the area in which you want to work. I also believe your job opportunities will depend more on your performance and networking ability than the reputation of the school (when it comes to these three...they all have very good reputations). Also, if you want to be in the west coast, for example, it will be hard for firms to take you seriously if you go to W&M unless you were born and raised in LA.


Ok, good point, of course. Let's assume that I'm equally interested in East Coast or West Coast employment. What I'm looking for are the best job prospects within either of these markets.


Where are you from and where did you go to college?

I'd lean towards USC by a little, but really these schools are regional. You will find some USC grads on the east coast, but they are either top 10%ers or had substantial connections. Same goes for W&M on the west coast. And I'm tired of all this "assuming X" stuff you 0L's do...stop assuming and make decisions based on your circumstances. You will regret basing your decision solely on rankings and what posters on TLS say.


To be honest, I can't stand the rhetoric here on TLS for the most part. I never imagined that admissions committees were so numbers/rankings-based and that I would have no chance at a T14 school with my scores (167.3.7), but that is what I've been told here. I do understand that it's probably true, especially in this particular admissions cycle.

I see you're at Vanderbilt. I have applied there but have not heard yet. What do you think my chances of admission are? What made you choose to go there over other schools?

amped
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby amped » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:29 pm

musicfor18 wrote:
amped wrote:
musicfor18 wrote:
amped wrote:1) Stop listening to all the 0L's on here.

2) This decision solely depends on what area of the country you want to be in after graduation.

West coast = USC
Midwest = WUSTL
East coast = W&M

None of these schools really have enough a national reputation to override the networking opportunities that come with being in the area in which you want to work. I also believe your job opportunities will depend more on your performance and networking ability than the reputation of the school (when it comes to these three...they all have very good reputations). Also, if you want to be in the west coast, for example, it will be hard for firms to take you seriously if you go to W&M unless you were born and raised in LA.


Ok, good point, of course. Let's assume that I'm equally interested in East Coast or West Coast employment. What I'm looking for are the best job prospects within either of these markets.


Where are you from and where did you go to college?

I'd lean towards USC by a little, but really these schools are regional. You will find some USC grads on the east coast, but they are either top 10%ers or had substantial connections. Same goes for W&M on the west coast. And I'm tired of all this "assuming X" stuff you 0L's do...stop assuming and make decisions based on your circumstances. You will regret basing your decision solely on rankings and what posters on TLS say.


To be honest, I can't stand the rhetoric here on TLS for the most part. I never imagined that admissions committees were so numbers/rankings-based and that I would have no chance at a T14 school with my scores (167.3.7), but that is what I've been told here. I do understand that it's probably true, especially in this particular admissions cycle.

I see you're at Vanderbilt. I have applied there but have not heard yet. What do you think my chances of admission are? What made you choose to go there over other schools?


As far as your numbers for getting in...I have no idea. I think they are right around the medians we have.

I would recommend doing some soul searching about (1) what you really want to do after school, (2) where you think you'll be happy geographically, and (3) where you have connections (as this will help you get a job, in terms of networking and employers believing you'll stay in the area; plus if you go to USC, for example, and are trying to get a job in NYC...travelling there and communicating with employers just sucks...it's expensive and hard to do). School rank matters to some extent, but there really is not much of a difference between these schools. They are all quality T1 schools that place quite well in their respective areas.
Last edited by amped on Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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badwithpseudonyms
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby badwithpseudonyms » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:45 pm

amped wrote:
musicfor18 wrote:
amped wrote:1) Stop listening to all the 0L's on here.

2) This decision solely depends on what area of the country you want to be in after graduation.

West coast = USC
Midwest = WUSTL
East coast = W&M

None of these schools really have enough a national reputation to override the networking opportunities that come with being in the area in which you want to work. I also believe your job opportunities will depend more on your performance and networking ability than the reputation of the school (when it comes to these three...they all have very good reputations). Also, if you want to be in the west coast, for example, it will be hard for firms to take you seriously if you go to W&M unless you were born and raised in LA.


Ok, good point, of course. Let's assume that I'm equally interested in East Coast or West Coast employment. What I'm looking for are the best job prospects within either of these markets.


Where are you from and where did you go to college?

I'd lean towards USC by a little, but really these schools are regional. You will find some USC grads on the east coast, but they are either top 10%ers or had substantial connections. Same goes for W&M on the west coast. And I'm tired of all this "assuming X" stuff you 0L's do...stop assuming and make decisions based on your circumstances. You will regret basing your decision solely on rankings and what posters on TLS say. Also, you've got to realize it's hard to up and plant yourself in another part of the country (except for maybe NYC, they can't fathom why people wouldn't want to be there). If you have lived on the west coast all your life, gone to school there, and then you go to Virginia for LS you will have a relatively difficult time convincing employers you want to stay. You need to take advantage of the circumstances you have...if you have lots of connections to the west coast, then exploit them.

I don't disagree with a word you said. But, OP took a poll and asked voters to consider quality and job placement prospects only. As far as I can tell, USC wins this argument by being a bigger fish in a bigger pond. I don't think that requires much 0L conjecture.

amped
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby amped » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:58 pm

badwithpseudonyms wrote:
amped wrote:
musicfor18 wrote:
amped wrote:1) Stop listening to all the 0L's on here.

2) This decision solely depends on what area of the country you want to be in after graduation.

West coast = USC
Midwest = WUSTL
East coast = W&M

None of these schools really have enough a national reputation to override the networking opportunities that come with being in the area in which you want to work. I also believe your job opportunities will depend more on your performance and networking ability than the reputation of the school (when it comes to these three...they all have very good reputations). Also, if you want to be in the west coast, for example, it will be hard for firms to take you seriously if you go to W&M unless you were born and raised in LA.


Ok, good point, of course. Let's assume that I'm equally interested in East Coast or West Coast employment. What I'm looking for are the best job prospects within either of these markets.


Where are you from and where did you go to college?

I'd lean towards USC by a little, but really these schools are regional. You will find some USC grads on the east coast, but they are either top 10%ers or had substantial connections. Same goes for W&M on the west coast. And I'm tired of all this "assuming X" stuff you 0L's do...stop assuming and make decisions based on your circumstances. You will regret basing your decision solely on rankings and what posters on TLS say. Also, you've got to realize it's hard to up and plant yourself in another part of the country (except for maybe NYC, they can't fathom why people wouldn't want to be there). If you have lived on the west coast all your life, gone to school there, and then you go to Virginia for LS you will have a relatively difficult time convincing employers you want to stay. You need to take advantage of the circumstances you have...if you have lots of connections to the west coast, then exploit them.

I don't disagree with a word you said. But, OP took a poll and asked voters to consider quality and job placement prospects only. As far as I can tell, USC wins this argument by being a bigger fish in a bigger pond. I don't think that requires much 0L conjecture.


I agree that USC is probably the strongest of the three, but it's not a landslide either. It has a lot of competition in the area (as do the other schools). Also, like I've mentioned, I think it will depend on your personal circumstances. That's why I don't like making determinations like that based on questions like the OP's. Clearly, at least one of these schools is in an area that he is not from. That will make the determination different for him. On average USC might have better job placement than W&M, but that might not be true for someone with substantial connections to Virginia or North Carolina.

musicfor18
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby musicfor18 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:31 am

I agree that USC is probably the strongest of the three, but it's not a landslide either. It has a lot of competition in the area (as do the other schools). Also, like I've mentioned, I think it will depend on your personal circumstances. That's why I don't like making determinations like that based on questions like the OP's. Clearly, at least one of these schools is in an area that he is not from. That will make the determination different for him. On average USC might have better job placement than W&M, but that might not be true for someone with substantial connections to Virginia or North Carolina.


All of these schools are in areas I'm not from.

amped
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby amped » Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:37 am

musicfor18 wrote:
I agree that USC is probably the strongest of the three, but it's not a landslide either. It has a lot of competition in the area (as do the other schools). Also, like I've mentioned, I think it will depend on your personal circumstances. That's why I don't like making determinations like that based on questions like the OP's. Clearly, at least one of these schools is in an area that he is not from. That will make the determination different for him. On average USC might have better job placement than W&M, but that might not be true for someone with substantial connections to Virginia or North Carolina.


All of these schools are in areas I'm not from.


Would you just tell us where your from already? And what your career aspirations are? Then maybe we can give you some real advice.

Otherwise I think the answer stands at USC for west coast, WUSTL for midwest, and W&M for east coast. If connections/geographical preference were truly neutral, USC probably has the best job prospects...but not by a ton.

musicfor18
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby musicfor18 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:54 am

Oh boy. I had written a reply much earlier telling where I'm from, but I guess it never got submitted. I'm from New York state, went to school in Western New York. Currently live in New York City, but I don;t have any legal connections here. I do know an attorney in DC who's a managing partner in a firm and I know a judge in Florida. But I feel that my connections are pretty neutral.

As far as career aspirations, I am very interested in national security law and human rights law.

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tallboone
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby tallboone » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:24 am

musicfor18 wrote:
As far as career aspirations, I am very interested in national security law and human rights law.


You should probably go to GW if/when you get in with your numbers. It will most likely be your best option being from New York and interested in national security law/human rights.

amped
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby amped » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:26 am

musicfor18 wrote:Oh boy. I had written a reply much earlier telling where I'm from, but I guess it never got submitted. I'm from New York state, went to school in Western New York. Currently live in New York City, but I don;t have any legal connections here. I do know an attorney in DC who's a managing partner in a firm and I know a judge in Florida. But I feel that my connections are pretty neutral.

As far as career aspirations, I am very interested in national security law and human rights law.


Nat'l Sec and HRL huh? Sounds like you'd enjoy Vandy. We have a great int'l program here. You should write a letter to the admissions people expressing your interest in the program. Also, have you applied to GW? That might be a good fit for you. If you are truly interested in those areas of law, then DC is the place to be. You can go to all kinds of events, make connections, have cool internships during the school year (I think the school year internship thing is overlooked when it comes to fed govt, NGOs, etc...firms don't do much of it, but this can be a great way to get really cool internships because school year stuff isn't nearly as competitive as summer positions), etc. When it comes to nat'l security and human rights stuff, this is a HUGE, HUGE factor (I myself am trying to break into nat'l security...it's not easy to do). I would very strongly consider applying to GW if you haven't already.

Otherwise, this is a hard one. Do you really not have any preference on where you end up?

If I were in your position (at least from what I know), I'd probably go to W&M for a few reasons. One, it is relatively close to DC, the mecca of national security. It's also close to NYC/DC, which are the human rights centers. DC and NYC have NGOs galore, and of course DC has all the fed agencies. Two, W&M will probably be cheaper (although I don't know your situation with scholarships, etc.). It has more reasonable tuition. Three, on the east coast, W&M's reputation is probably similar to USC's, maybe better. USC is ranked a bit higher, but east coast peeps are much more familiar with W&M, which also benefits from a good undergrad reputation. Plus you'll have many more W&M alums, which can be a huge help. Lastly, you have some legal connections in the area, but you also have personal ties to the east coast. You will be a fish out of water, so to speak, on the west coast. Conversely, employers will have no problem believing you are going to stay on the east coast. Given your career interests and personal ties, you will be more employable on the east coast. Perhaps if this were a normal market, then you could go have fun at USC for a while, but you gotta think seriously about your professional career and the implications from your school choice. I can't overemphasize how important it is to be near the area where you want to be, even at a school like USC. If we were talking Stanford or Berkeley, that'd be different. But USC is not on par with those schools.

And in case you haven't noticed, WUSTL probably shouldn't be in the race here unless you want to end up in the midwest for some crazy reason.

musicfor18
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby musicfor18 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:34 am

I did apply to GW and Vanderbilt, but am still waiting for their decisions.

Emboss
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby Emboss » Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:18 pm

I already decided between Cornell, USC, and WUSTL. I chose WUSTL.

Some of my considerations:

1) Wustl's reputation has been rising in both lawyer-judge assessments and dean assessments for over 10 years. These are the single most important criteria for US News rankings, and they ultimately correlate with job prospects.
2) Wustl's student medians are higher than Cornell's, tied with Texas's, ahead of USC's, and go up every year
3) Wustl completely revamped its career services office over the past 2 years. Mike Spivey, the newly hired dean, is exceptional.
4) Wustl's new dean, Kent Syverud, is said to be one of the best deans in academia. Rumor has it he scored a 180 on his LSAT.
5) Wustl places strongly not only in the Midwest, but also in the east. So, the degree is more versatile than USC's in terms of geographic preferences. http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/in ... d=5506#geo.
6) Wustl hired 6 faculty members last year--far more than other schools.
7) Wustl is very rich. If you look at the top law schools, they are among the richest institutions by endowment.
8) Wustl is placing far more money into its law school than it did in years past.

In sum, it was very clear to me that Wustl was on the rise and the degree would appreciate in value. In 3 years, by the time you get out of law school, I feel fairly certain that Wustl's rank will go up along with its reputation and career prospects.

amped
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby amped » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:29 pm

Emboss wrote:I already decided between Cornell, USC, and WUSTL. I chose WUSTL.

Some of my considerations:

1) Wustl's reputation has been rising in both lawyer-judge assessments and dean assessments for over 10 years. These are the single most important criteria for US News rankings, and they ultimately correlate with job prospects.
2) Wustl's student medians are higher than Cornell's, tied with Texas's, ahead of USC's, and go up every year
3) Wustl completely revamped its career services office over the past 2 years. Mike Spivey, the newly hired dean, is exceptional.
4) Wustl's new dean, Kent Syverud, is said to be one of the best deans in academia. Rumor has it he scored a 180 on his LSAT.
5) Wustl places strongly not only in the Midwest, but also in the east. So, the degree is more versatile than USC's in terms of geographic preferences. http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/in ... d=5506#geo.
6) Wustl hired 6 faculty members last year--far more than other schools.
7) Wustl is very rich. If you look at the top law schools, they are among the richest institutions by endowment.
8) Wustl is placing far more money into its law school than it did in years past.

In sum, it was very clear to me that Wustl was on the rise and the degree would appreciate in value. In 3 years, by the time you get out of law school, I feel fairly certain that Wustl's rank will go up along with its reputation and career prospects.


Please tell me you got a huge scholarship from WUSTL...

AttractiveNuisance
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby AttractiveNuisance » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:20 pm

amped wrote:
Emboss wrote:I already decided between Cornell, USC, and WUSTL. I chose WUSTL.

Some of my considerations:

1) Wustl's reputation has been rising in both lawyer-judge assessments and dean assessments for over 10 years. These are the single most important criteria for US News rankings, and they ultimately correlate with job prospects.
2) Wustl's student medians are higher than Cornell's, tied with Texas's, ahead of USC's, and go up every year
3) Wustl completely revamped its career services office over the past 2 years. Mike Spivey, the newly hired dean, is exceptional.
4) Wustl's new dean, Kent Syverud, is said to be one of the best deans in academia. Rumor has it he scored a 180 on his LSAT.
5) Wustl places strongly not only in the Midwest, but also in the east. So, the degree is more versatile than USC's in terms of geographic preferences. http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/in ... d=5506#geo.
6) Wustl hired 6 faculty members last year--far more than other schools.
7) Wustl is very rich. If you look at the top law schools, they are among the richest institutions by endowment.
8) Wustl is placing far more money into its law school than it did in years past.

In sum, it was very clear to me that Wustl was on the rise and the degree would appreciate in value. In 3 years, by the time you get out of law school, I feel fairly certain that Wustl's rank will go up along with its reputation and career prospects.


Please tell me you got a huge scholarship from WUSTL...


Please tell him that, or else he will obviously die!

musicfor18
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby musicfor18 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:15 pm

And what if we add Emory into the mix? Impressions on how it compares to the others? I would add them to the poll, but then it wipes the poll results, so I'm going to leave it out for now.

lawhawk
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Re: USC vs. W&M vs. WUSTL

Postby lawhawk » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:47 pm

Ok, good point, of course. Let's assume that I'm equally interested in East Coast or West Coast employment. What I'm looking for are the best job prospects within either of these markets.[/quote]

Where are you from and where did you go to college?

I'd lean towards USC by a little, but really these schools are regional. You will find some USC grads on the east coast, but they are either top 10%ers or had substantial connections. Same goes for W&M on the west coast. And I'm tired of all this "assuming X" stuff you 0L's do...stop assuming and make decisions based on your circumstances. You will regret basing your decision solely on rankings and what posters on TLS say. Also, you've got to realize it's hard to up and plant yourself in another part of the country (except for maybe NYC, they can't fathom why people wouldn't want to be there). If you have lived on the west coast all your life, gone to school there, and then you go to Virginia for LS you will have a relatively difficult time convincing employers you want to stay. You need to take advantage of the circumstances you have...if you have lots of connections to the west coast, then exploit them.[/quote]
I don't disagree with a word you said. But, OP took a poll and asked voters to consider quality and job placement prospects only. As far as I can tell, USC wins this argument by being a bigger fish in a bigger pond. I don't think that requires much 0L conjecture.[/quote]

I agree that USC is probably the strongest of the three, but it's not a landslide either. It has a lot of competition in the area (as do the other schools). Also, like I've mentioned, I think it will depend on your personal circumstances. That's why I don't like making determinations like that based on questions like the OP's. Clearly, at least one of these schools is in an area that he is not from. That will make the determination different for him. On average USC might have better job placement than W&M, but that might not be true for someone with substantial connections to Virginia or North Carolina.[/quote]

USC and I think it's kind of obvious. Only school there that dominates its market and it's only the #2 market in the US. Although I guess WUSTL dominates St Louis/Kansas City?




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