CLS with $$$ v. Berkeley v. HLS for west coast PI

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beef wellington
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Re: CLS with $$$ v. Berkeley v. HLS for west coast PI

Postby beef wellington » Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:39 pm

Kronk wrote:
beef wellington wrote:So basically Stanford's promising to not stop payment on the check they mail you. But they could just totally scrap the whole LRAP the next year and not be in violation of their promise to not cut benefits. Got it.


Exactly. There's a 99.9% chance it will never happen, but that is my understanding.

That's a ridiculous reading of that language.

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Kronk
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Re: CLS with $$$ v. Berkeley v. HLS for west coast PI

Postby Kronk » Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:43 pm

beef wellington wrote:
Kronk wrote:
beef wellington wrote:So basically Stanford's promising to not stop payment on the check they mail you. But they could just totally scrap the whole LRAP the next year and not be in violation of their promise to not cut benefits. Got it.


Exactly. There's a 99.9% chance it will never happen, but that is my understanding.

That's a ridiculous reading of that language.


Jesus. Just call the financial aid office, man. If they don't have money, they will not be able to give you money. It's that simple. If they make the assurance or guarantee that they can, it's superficial. What if they have $200,000 and in order to fulfill obligations they need $300,000?

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Unemployed
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Re: CLS with $$$ v. Berkeley v. HLS for west coast PI

Postby Unemployed » Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:42 pm

Which school's more likely to run out funds? The one with university-wide per capita endowment of $23,100 (UC), $223,228 (Columbia), $844,362 (Stanford), $1,268,512 (Harvard) or $1,306,682 (Yale)?

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beef wellington
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Re: CLS with $$$ v. Berkeley v. HLS for west coast PI

Postby beef wellington » Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:13 pm

Kronk wrote:
beef wellington wrote:
Kronk wrote:
beef wellington wrote:So basically Stanford's promising to not stop payment on the check they mail you. But they could just totally scrap the whole LRAP the next year and not be in violation of their promise to not cut benefits. Got it.


Exactly. There's a 99.9% chance it will never happen, but that is my understanding.

That's a ridiculous reading of that language.


Jesus. Just call the financial aid office, man. If they don't have money, they will not be able to give you money. It's that simple. If they make the assurance or guarantee that they can, it's superficial. What if they have $200,000 and in order to fulfill obligations they need $300,000?

Yes, if only there existed some financial instrument that could provide liquidity to institutions or individuals who are unable to immediately satisfy their debts and obligations.

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Kronk
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Re: CLS with $$$ v. Berkeley v. HLS for west coast PI

Postby Kronk » Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:43 pm

Unemployed wrote:Which school's more likely to run out funds? The one with university-wide per capita endowment of $23,100 (UC), $223,228 (Columbia), $844,362 (Stanford), $1,268,512 (Harvard) or $1,306,682 (Yale)?


Which is a much better conversation to have than the one we are currently having.

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Kronk
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Re: CLS with $$$ v. Berkeley v. HLS for west coast PI

Postby Kronk » Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:53 pm

beef wellington wrote:Yes, if only there existed some financial instrument that could provide liquidity to institutions or individuals who are unable to immediately satisfy their debts and obligations.


And even if they were able to take a loan in order to finish off the payments, it doesn't change the fact that if they ran out of money, they'd have to end their LRAP program. This is why Yale--with the biggest endowment and the best COAP program in the country--specifically states the funds are not unlimited. This may seem novel to you, but programs that make the school PAY for a student's education are often the first things to go when a school is having a budget crisis. Harvard got rid of their third year tuition waiver for public interest students. Luckily they are honoring the 1Ls who are the on the program now--but it's not going to be there in the future. Many schools don't have an LRAP program period.

So say you pick SLS. Your 2L year they end their LRAP program due to budget problems (not going to happen, obviously, but a hypothetical). You're still fucked. You haven't even applied yet. You have no security through their program. You have $150,000 of debt and no repayment program through the school to use. Boalt's disclaimer is saying the same thing--"If we don't have any money (or less money) when you apply, we might have to reject applicants (or redisburse pro-rata) based on how much we have." I don't see what gives anyone pause in that statement. Their LRAP program exists. They are raising tuition $13,000 per student in order to keep programs like that afloat. They know how to form a budget and they aren't idiots. Their LRAP program isn't a liability--just like the LRAPs at SLS, YLS, HLS, NYU, CLS, and other top schools aren't a liability.

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beef wellington
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Re: CLS with $$$ v. Berkeley v. HLS for west coast PI

Postby beef wellington » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:05 pm

So Harvard had to scrap their LRAP. Boalt's got language built into their policy that would allow them to scrap theirs at any time without even honoring the existing recipients like HLS did. The UC system is in crazy financial straits. But a reasonable person wouldn't be given pause. Okay. Again, I am not predicting Boalt will scrap their LRAP or screw anyone over. All I said originally was that it would give me pause and I would call the financial aid office to make sure the program isn't in any danger. This is an action you've also suggested repeatedly. So we agree there.

The only points you've made that I've taken issue with have been that all LRAPs contain similar provisions, and that Stanford's is one of them. We came to an impasse with the Stanford question, and probably the first question as well.

Renzo
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Re: CLS with $$$ v. Berkeley v. HLS for west coast PI

Postby Renzo » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:10 pm

The last three pages of this thread should be an embarrassment to everyone in them.

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Unemployed
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Re: CLS with $$$ v. Berkeley v. HLS for west coast PI

Postby Unemployed » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:13 pm

Renzo wrote:The last three pages of this thread should be an embarrassment to everyone in them.


Welcome to the club cowboy! :P

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kittenmittons
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Re: CLS with $$$ v. Berkeley v. HLS for west coast PI

Postby kittenmittons » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:15 pm

5 pages in and boalt still sucks




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